Organizing Registrations

[lazeeboy]

Hi fellow Jupiter 80 enthusiasts/owners/critics,

I'm thinking about purchasing a Jupiter 80. I've yet to try it out. My local music store doesn't have one I can demo yet. I'd like to be able to play it in a live situation (band) as my sole keyboard.

I read in the manual there are 8 Registration Sets comprised of each 4 banks (A..D) with each 8 Registrations (1..8). That'd make 8 x 4 x 8 = 256 registrations in total.

All very well, but to me the sheer amount of registrations is not really that interesting because you'd have to be able to recall them easily during a gig. Yeah yeah I hear you thinking: "They're only a button press (or two or three) away". It's just that memorizing the locations of 256 registrations is not really handy is it? Can you "see" the registrations anywhere on-screen? Hope so!

So how would you organize the registrations keeping in mind ease of recall?

Supposing you play live in a band and your band is playing like 4 sets with each about 12 songs on a typical gig. Some of these songs would require more than 1 registrations to be able to switch between them whilst playing (think: verse, chorus, bridge). Just lining all these up in the registration sets is not really going to cut it in my opinion. Of course having all songs on a piece of paper with the respective registration(s) next to it is a solution, but still not intuitive.

Here's what I came up with:
I could divide the sets we play into 2 registration sets each (set 1 corresponds to registration set 1 and 2; set 2 to 3 and 4 and so on).Then each bank would contain 2 songs (remember: a song could be comprised of several registrations). When a set is divided over 2 registration sets and each bank would hold 2 songs, we would have 16 songs in a set which is fine by me. Granted, this solution causes quite a lot of "fragmentation". The upside is each song would "start" at its own fixed position: either 1 or 5. It so happens there's a wider space between buttons 4 and 5 than there's between the other buttons.

Example:
[Set 1]
[Registration Set 1]
[A] [1] [2] [_] [_] [5] [_] [_] [_]
[1] [_] [_] [_] [5] [6] [7] [_]
[C] [1] [_] [_] [_] [5] [_] [_] [_]
[D] [1] [_] [_] [_] [5] [_] [_] [_]

[Registration Set 2]
[A] [1] [2] [_] [_] [5] [6] [_] [_]
[1] [_] [_] [_] [5] [6] [_] [_]
[C] [1] [_] [_] [_] [5] [_] [_] [_]
[D] [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [_] [_] <-- exception to the rule: this is a long medley

[Set 2]
[Registration Set 3]
....
[Registration Set 4]
....

[Set 3]
....

[Set 4]
....

Question:
Does the Jupiter 80 allow for the registration buttons to not have a registration attached to it? And does it then also not light up? This would make it more intuitive because the unused buttons sort of mark where a song starts/ends.

Thoughts anyone?

Regards,
Lazeeboy

[mojkarma]

I don't have the jp80, instead I use the Fantom G, but some basic principles applies maybe to both keyboards.
I wouldn't try to replicate your real stage sets with the number and set system on the jp80. Your band could change the set list on fly or after a while and then all your work becomes completely useless because you can't load single registrations from a file or backup into the jp80 and create another list. There is also no software librarian available nor is it announced.
This is what I do:
I simply program my registrations for the songs as the band rehearses them and put them on our gig list. I also put the song name with the respective registration number on a separate paper list at home (in word) so that I can print it out. If we change the set list that we play live, I simply look on my list where I can easily find the songs because they are listed in alphabetical order, read the number and dial the number in. After a while, you learn the number for a dedicated song without even looking on the paper. Also, sticking a small paper with a smaller song print on the surface of the keyboard is also an option.
I also have a lot of songs with more than one registration (chorus/verse/solo/...). I use a switch pedal which is programmed to perform the program/registration up function. In that way, I manually recall the first needed registration and step to the next with the pedal. It's easier IMO because you don't need to put your hands of from the keyboard.
I also use shortcuts in the name of the registration which helps me to identify the registration in regard to the song part. For example:
The Duke VS1 >
It means that this registration is programmed for the song "The Duke" for the "Verse 1" and the ">" sign means that there are other registrations for that song, The Duke CH1 > (CH meaning Chorus, SL meaning Solo, BD meaning Bridge, and so on). On the last registration for a song I put a "." at the end to the name which tells me that there are no further registrations programmed for that song. Of course, all registrations which belong to one song are programmed subsequently.

[lazeeboy]

Hi Mojkarma,

thanks for your reply. I also have the Fantom G (FG8), but I'm tired of schlepping it around; it also contricts me in me choice of cars, so a smaller keyboard is an option. An FG7 would be a viable choice as well. It's about the sam size as the JP80. That aside, I'm exploring the possibility of a JP80 as well.

Our setlist doesn't change significantly over time. We do have some ad-hoc changes sometimes where we deviate from the pre-defined setlist, because it seems the crowd might like to go in a certain direction. In that case I could indeed look it up in a table on a piece of paper.

One could have two tables. The first is the setlist whith the registration numbers behind it. The other is alphabetical for use with the ad-hoc deviations.

The notation convention you mention is a good one BTW; one I use today in my Fantom G as well in another form.

The problem with pressing next (be it with your pedal or with the button on the JP80) is that you can't go back. What if you accidentally pushed next? Also, do you copy the verse/chorus registrations in case the verse/chorus occurs more than once (which it pretty much always does)? I'd rather have a button for each part of a song. (BTW that's also how I work with my Fantom). And the JP80 has loads of 'em. Why not use them right? The question remains how best to use them for live performing.

Also I'd like to have the question about wether or not the button lights up if a registration is assigned to it or not.

Regards,
Lazeeboy

[mojkarma]

The problem with pressing next (be it with your pedal or with the button on the JP80) is that you can't go back. What if you accidentally pushed next?

This happened very very rarely to me. In that case I simply press the DECrease (-) button. Turning the dial to the left would be just another option.

Also, do you copy the verse/chorus registrations in case the verse/chorus occurs more than once (which it pretty much always does)?

Yes, of course. I simply copy the different registrations/live sets more than once if the sounds are the same. It's not a problem on a FG because with 512 user live sets there is plenty of space.

I'd rather have a button for each part of a song. (BTW that's also how I work with my Fantom). And the JP80 has loads of 'em. Why not use them right? The question remains how best to use them for live performing.

Everybody has his preferred way to do things. I have songs where there is more than one live set for either the verse or the chorus because on the second verse/chorus there may new sounds appear. For me, it's easier to step on a switch pedal at a certain point in a song, instead of taking care, whether I need the live set for chorus 1 or 2, what comes after the bridge/solo part, and so on. I program all may live sets at home from intro up to the end and memorize them subsequently. And all I have to do while playing live is to press the switch pedal at a certain point. Put simply, I just have to memorize when to press the pedal instead of thinking which number I have to push and which new or old live set I have to select at a certain moment.

Also I'd like to have the question about wether or not the button lights up if a registration is assigned to it or not.

Yes, it lights up because there is always a registration assigned to it. If it's not a user one, than there is the initialized registration.

[lazeeboy]

Hi mojkarma,

Hmm, as I get to know more and more about how the Jupiter 80 works I realise it isn't possible to assign registrations to the registration buttons. It seems my idea about organising the registrations has now been rendered moot :-(

The Jupiter is a lot different from the Fantom G. The Fantom G has this screen for programming entire setlists in. This is ideal for playing live. As the Jupiter is also a keyboard for playing live with I wonder why this feature was not included; perhaps in combination with te registration buttons ... You're right about having a preferred way of doing things. I'll have to accept the fact that mine isn't goint to fly no more. Oh well, moving on. No use in lingering. Roland will either put that in a firmware update or (more likely) not.

So the only workable way of calling up registrations now it seems, is the one you described to me: from memory and occasionally using a piece of paper. Very old-scool.

Anyway, tomorrow I'm gonna demo the device in our local music store; it seems they do have one I can try out! Nice!

Regards,
Laurenz

[RayS]

A "Setlist" feature like in the Kronos would be great. Or even having a favorite list would be as great. Maybe an update eh?

[Devnor]

Question:
Does the Jupiter 80 allow for the registration buttons to not have a registration attached to it? And does it then also not light up? This would make it more intuitive because the unused buttons sort of mark where a song starts/ends.

No & No. Every button below the keyboard is assigned to its registration whether it's programmed or INIT. The light simply indicates which registration is selected without the player having to look up to the display or remember which reg is selected. No other keyboard has this functionality.

Favorites. How many do you need? Press "alternate" and you can assign your own patches to the catagory buttons. If that is not enough you could assign your favorites to one of the unused catagories like scat or phrase.

[mojkarma]

No & No. Every button below the keyboard is assigned to its registration whether it's programmed or INIT. The light simply indicates which registration is selected without the player having to look up to the display or remember which reg is selected. No other keyboard has this functionality.

As a matter of fact, the Motif has the same functionality. The only difference is the placement of the buttons.

Favorites. How many do you need? Press "alternate" and you can assign your own patches to the catagory buttons. If that is not enough you could assign your favorites to one of the unused catagories like scat or phrase.

Alternates saves favorite tones and not registrations. A big difference.