I thought Roland was listening to us

Forum for JUPITER-80
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zardoz505
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I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by zardoz505 »

I thought the mighty Roland Company was watching this board .
Korg has updated their product (flagship)
So why isn't Roland at least giving the Jupiter 80 users a little attention ?
I really love the JU 80 but the added patches are of no use in a "live"
performance board . Hopefully an Editor is in our future I'm quite surprised
we have not seen one earlier. Thought Scott said he is listening ..that was a year ago !
Z
tomoe97
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by tomoe97 »

Even if Roland isn't paying attention to this forum, they should at least sit up and take notice of the wonderful editors (standalone, plug-in, and iOS) that their competitors Korg and Yamaha have been creating for the Kronos and Motif platforms. The JP80 sounds great (and I love most of the Synth Legends tones), but users in today's marketplace have also come to expect better DAW integration. Right now, that integration doesn't exist for the JP80. I can only hope that, based on their experience with the Integra editor and librarian, Roland is about to unveil something similar for the JP80 and JP50, which would greatly extend their shelf life. To not do so would be a missed opportunity.
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PauloF
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by PauloF »

tomoe97 wrote:Even if Roland isn't paying attention to this forum, they should at least sit up and take notice of the wonderful editors (standalone, plug-in, and iOS) that their competitors Korg and Yamaha have been creating for the Kronos and Motif platforms. The JP80 sounds great (and I love most of the Synth Legends tones), but users in today's marketplace have also come to expect better DAW integration. Right now, that integration doesn't exist for the JP80. I can only hope that, based on their experience with the Integra editor and librarian, Roland is about to unveil something similar for the JP80 and JP50, which would greatly extend their shelf life. To not do so would be a missed opportunity.

indeed they are....watch the space
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Tom_1970
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by Tom_1970 »

PauloF wrote:indeed they are....watch the space
You made me very curious, but I guess you can't tell us anything without the obligation to kill us. ;-)
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PauloF
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by PauloF »

Tom_1970 wrote:
PauloF wrote:indeed they are....watch the space
You made me very curious, but I guess you can't tell us anything without the obligation to kill us. ;-)
Of course, that's why I can't say more... ;-)
lekanout
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by lekanout »

I really love the JU 80 but the added patches are of no use in a "live"
performance board .
There are so many things to do with these sounds in a live situation for a performance board...strange point of view..
Vlad_77
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by Vlad_77 »

lekanout wrote:
I really love the JU 80 but the added patches are of no use in a "live"
performance board .
There are so many things to do with these sounds in a live situation for a performance board...strange point of view..
These added patches are not graven in granite so in fact there are many ways - almost infinite ways to use them.

Now to Roland listening ...

I am very very pleased that Korg have continued to upgrade Kronos. The latest update is a significant overhaul of one of the engines. One of the previous releases was the introduction of user streaming sampling. Korg also heard the QC complaints on the early runs of the 73 and 88 key models and addressed those.

I own a Kronos and I own a Jupiter 80 and 6 other workstations/synths at the moment - and FOUR of them are Rolands. SO this isn't a Roland bash - at least as far as the instruments.

But ...

Compare what Korg have done in a smaller time frame for Kronos users compared to Roland's response - or lack thereof with the Roland Fantom G. Let me start by repeating what I have stated a few times here and elsewhere: Roland make great instruments and the Roland community of musicians make the instruments EXCELLENT.

Roland promised so much on the Fantom G and failed to deliver and failed to listen, read, consider, any customer feedback. ARX could have been revolutionary and Korg and Yamaha would be playing catch up. Fan G users waited faithfully for an OS update that never came. But they soldiered on and created and create great music with the G. That said however, I too believe that Roland have been out of touch. People like Soundworld and others have solved important design issues that Roland could and should have corrected.

I bought the Jupiter 80 because I love the sound and its possibilities; I also bought it knowing that Roland might quickly orphan it. Synth legends was and IS cool, as was the addition of more low pass filters. Do I wish for high pass, band pass, side band, and other filters on this powerful instrument? You bet your Rolands I do, but, I simply don't see it happening nor do I see a librarian coming out for PC and Mac. That's a pity too.

The Fantom G and Jupiter 80 are beloved and successful despite Roland's silence and failed promises. After the G was fixed after an ignominious release and people were buying the instrument, Roland, instead of developing the amazing potential of ARX - and Roland was practically BEGGED to do so by users, Roland instead chose to flood the market with the 129th and 130th version of Juno.

Kronos is beloved and successful BOTH due to the community and a company that listened. But let me add that Roland could take a cautionary tale from Korg: many OASYS owners feel betrayed and I don't blame them. These people made a huge investment on what is still a profoundly powerful instrument, but, Korg didn't offer these musicians SGX-1 or EPS-1, user sampling, etc. There are a lot of OASYS owners who love the instrument but have little love for Korg and a few with whom I've spoken refuse to buy ANY Korg product anymore. The only thing in my estimation that saved Korg's collective ass is the fact that the price poiunt of OASYS was such that not many were sold. Imagine the same scenario had the OASYS been priced at the same point as similar workstations at the time. Korg would have had to face even more feces.

I'm still waiting for an official Roland presence here. Korg has presence at Korg Forums, Kurzweil is represented at Cunka.com - and STILL supporting the PC3 even though the PC3/K was released. Yamaha is on Motifator. And here at the Clan? No Roland reps.

Why Roland?
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zardoz505
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by zardoz505 »

Vlad_77 wrote:
lekanout wrote:
I really love the JU 80 but the added patches are of no use in a "live"
performance board .
There are so many things to do with these sounds in a live situation for a performance board...strange point of view..
These added patches are not graven in granite so in fact there are many ways - almost infinite ways to use them.

Now to Roland listening ...

I am very very pleased that Korg have continued to upgrade Kronos. The latest update is a significant overhaul of one of the engines. One of the previous releases was the introduction of user streaming sampling. Korg also heard the QC complaints on the early runs of the 73 and 88 key models and addressed those.

I own a Kronos and I own a Jupiter 80 and 6 other workstations/synths at the moment - and FOUR of them are Rolands. SO this isn't a Roland bash - at least as far as the instruments.

But ...

Compare what Korg have done in a smaller time frame for Kronos users compared to Roland's response - or lack thereof with the Roland Fantom G. Let me start by repeating what I have stated a few times here and elsewhere: Roland make great instruments and the Roland community of musicians make the instruments EXCELLENT.

Roland promised so much on the Fantom G and failed to deliver and failed to listen, read, consider, any customer feedback. ARX could have been revolutionary and Korg and Yamaha would be playing catch up. Fan G users waited faithfully for an OS update that never came. But they soldiered on and created and create great music with the G. That said however, I too believe that Roland have been out of touch. People like Soundworld and others have solved important design issues that Roland could and should have corrected.

I bought the Jupiter 80 because I love the sound and its possibilities; I also bought it knowing that Roland might quickly orphan it. Synth legends was and IS cool, as was the addition of more low pass filters. Do I wish for high pass, band pass, side band, and other filters on this powerful instrument? You bet your Rolands I do, but, I simply don't see it happening nor do I see a librarian coming out for PC and Mac. That's a pity too.

The Fantom G and Jupiter 80 are beloved and successful despite Roland's silence and failed promises. After the G was fixed after an ignominious release and people were buying the instrument, Roland, instead of developing the amazing potential of ARX - and Roland was practically BEGGED to do so by users, Roland instead chose to flood the market with the 129th and 130th version of Juno.

Kronos is beloved and successful BOTH due to the community and a company that listened. But let me add that Roland could take a cautionary tale from Korg: many OASYS owners feel betrayed and I don't blame them. These people made a huge investment on what is still a profoundly powerful instrument, but, Korg didn't offer these musicians SGX-1 or EPS-1, user sampling, etc. There are a lot of OASYS owners who love the instrument but have little love for Korg and a few with whom I've spoken refuse to buy ANY Korg product anymore. The only thing in my estimation that saved Korg's collective ass is the fact that the price poiunt of OASYS was such that not many were sold. Imagine the same scenario had the OASYS been priced at the same point as similar workstations at the time. Korg would have had to face even more feces.

I'm still waiting for an official Roland presence here. Korg has presence at Korg Forums, Kurzweil is represented at Cunka.com - and STILL supporting the PC3 even though the PC3/K was released. Yamaha is on Motifator. And here at the Clan? No Roland reps.

Why Roland?

Nice post Vlad ..I seen your post on the korg forum also ..Perfect, I couldn't have said it better.
Hopefully Roland does have a "surprise" in our future.
I have a v-synth ordered (waiting for my GAS fix) so it's not that I lost faith in the company .
Or the product.
What would it take for a Roland rep to check in once in a while to help us help them ?
This forum (and the others) is the best resource for our products next to the owners manuals
usually more !!
Z
lekanout
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by lekanout »

I am very very pleased that Korg have continued to upgrade Kronos. The latest update is a significant overhaul of one of the engines. One of the previous releases was the introduction of user streaming sampling. Korg also heard the QC complaints on the early runs of the 73 and 88 key models and addressed those.
Good point for the streaming.
Yes korg did some cool things.
But you have to pay for new sounds.

Roland did 512 patches totally free.

And BIG difference for me:
The roland was already reliable at the beginning...the korg was a shame(rh3 keybed and i had a 61 with a mad os...incredible for a proffesional synth)

Now it´s better,but with korg you have 2 years to wait before buying to be sure it´s ok.(and i know very well what i'm saying because i bought a brand new korg PA3X 76 last month:i waited 2 years to be sure my os will be safe.)(oh..i bought 3 korg sv1 with strange keybed too..)

With roland we know the problem:
-less technical than korg but so much safe os and reliable..
-very radical choice and conception..roland tried something different with the jupiter 80 and they loose a lot.
-Nobody on the net....like you said.
-some strange things in architecture(the limitations for saving own configuration...etc)

Depends what you want:
-At first,i personnaly want the build like a rock and the reliability(the basics):
(korg is over.)
-at second place the sounds
(roland and korg on top..depends what is own feeling.)
-at third place,what you feel in your heart for a hardware machine.
(i love the organic jupiter sound,i prefer my apple mac pro than the kronos computer box)

Conclusion?
yes roland is fantomatic,yes roland has extraordinary things and strange limitations.
But if you accept that at the beginning and take the jupiter 80 like it is,without hoping more..no problem let´s go playing music.
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PauloF
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by PauloF »

lekanaut wrote:...

Conclusion?
yes roland is fantomatic,yes roland has extraordinary things and strange limitations.
But if you accept that at the beginning and take the jupiter 80 like it is,without hoping more..no problem let´s go playing music.
I think this summarizes it all!!

Fantastic features, sound and building quality, but very strange limitations... Which no one believes that they can't do better than that...
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SoundworldA.D.
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by SoundworldA.D. »

let´s go playing music
Indeed! Sums it up for me perfectly!
lekanout
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by lekanout »

When we are playing old minimoogs and acoustic piano(with the"1 preset only"limitation..we don't expect another os..
We are only playing music.
I think we have to take the jupiter 80 like this.
Simple vision...and pure pleasure to play.
After,we can love it and feel better:-)
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Quinnx.
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Re: I thought Roland was listening to us

Post by Quinnx. »

@Vlad:
I'm still waiting for an official Roland presence here.
The only time roland makes its presence here is to Quash any type of mass hysteria.
Example:
when i tryed more than once to get people together to mass email roland regarding support
we suddenly got Dan the man.. and one other suddenly appearing and saying nothing but to give people a false sense of hope by telling them no need to email here we are..
and then it continued with...

we are here to support but we can tell you Nothing...

Well then whats the point??

@lekanout
I think we have to take the jupiter 80 like this.
Simple vision.
Thats all fine if it where a moog and less complicated
making sounds and textures are a lot more complex than what a Moog ever offered so unless your going to
to stick with the factory presets
Things are just way beyond simple to take that approach seriously.
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