Jupiter 80 Newbie

[SynthzzGuy]

Hello all:

Newbie to the Jupiter 80 forum, but not new to the Roland forum. Just sold my Integra 7 and bought a brand new JP80. Although the I7 was pretty cool, I needed a performance synth, with good key action, to better round-out my studio & live performace setup. After watching & hearing all the awesome YouTube videos, those also played a major factor in my decision.

So far, for the most part, I love it. However, after 1 week of many hours of getting familar, learning, experimenting, exporting/importing & creating both Live Sets & Registrations, I have compiled a few issues that I came across thus far:

1) Sound Management: is a nightmare without a librarian/editor. I read the thread with all the postings from many users for a requests for one. I dito that. However, it seems that this is a dead issue and many have given up ? But maybe there is still hope: I have been dealing with "Sound Quest / Midi Quest" for many years and have enjoyed other librarians they have developed. I emailed them asking if they have any plans on developing a JP80 Librarian/Editor... and not to get everyones hopes up too high, they replied back and said "Hopefully there will be a Jupiter 80 compatible editor available for Midi Quest later this year". Of course this would'nt be free, but I for one, would definetly be the first in line to purchase it.

2) Sub Outs: One of my biggest issues. These should have been assignable/saved for each "Part" at the "Live Set" level NOT as a "Global" system setting. Reason ? I use the Sub Outs for mulit-purposes. One main purpose is that I use a "Real" Leslie 3300 for live performances and need the flexibility to send the organ audio out directly to my 3300 and not sacrifice other key options. Since I have 2 keyboards, my JP80 registrations vary dramatically for each song (including which keyboard, splits, layers, octaves, etc). Each registration is setup & titled for each and every song. For me, the work-around is to set Sub Outs in the system setup to "Lower", but this uses up the entire Lower part of the Live Set just for organ... because both Percussion & Solo for some reason do not allow the drawbar settings screen to come up. I called Roland about this Sub Out issue, and at least they are going to put this in the suggestion box... what ever good that will do. The agreed that Sub Outs on other Roland synths are programmable, why they chose this architecture, who knows.

3) External Midi: Somewhat limited, expecially if someone has two keyboards (with "local" turned off on 2nd keyboard) and wants to layer/split internal sounds on 2nd keyboard with the JP80. The "remote switch" option in the system allows this but cuts out midi from coming back to the JP80 when turned on. Anyway, the Midi options they provided work fine as long as you are just using the Roland JP80 to play from but not designed as a complex midi controller to setup layers/splits on external midi devices.

For now, I will stop at three. Even with these three issues. I still love my new JP80. It has sound fullness & playability like no other I have heard or played. Just like any other keyboard/synth, there is usually a work-around or eventually settle on the "positives" for what it can do.

I look forward to reading all the threads and being a part of the JP80 clan. :=)

SynthzzGuy
_______________________________
My current setup: Roland JP80, Yamaha CP33, Hammond Leslie 3300, 2100w Stereo PwrAmp, Mackie Mixer, Electo-Voice 15's. Computer side: Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Presonus.

[PauloF]

Welcome to the Clan SynthzGuy!!
Although I'm not a JP-80 user, but after reading a lot about the JP-80 and playing with out several times I have a similar opinion.

1) Sound Management: is a nightmare without a librarian/editor. I read the thread with all the postings from many users for a requests for one. I dito that. However, it seems that this is a dead issue and many have given up ? But maybe there is still hope: I have been dealing with "Sound Quest / Midi Quest" for many years and have enjoyed other librarians they have developed. I emailed them asking if they have any plans on developing a JP80 Librarian/Editor... and not to get everyones hopes up too high, they replied back and said "Hopefully there will be a Jupiter 80 compatible editor available for Midi Quest later this year". Of course this would'nt be free, but I for one, would definetly be the first in line to purchase it.

From all the user reports Sound management IS THE PROBLEM. Our RolandClan colleague Kimsnarf is producing a Librarian for the JP-50/80 based on Renoise Scripts. Let's be patient and hear from him...
A bit of hope here

2) Sub Outs: One of my biggest issues. These should have been assignable/saved for each "Part" at the "Live Set" level NOT as a "Global" system setting. Reason ? I use the Sub Outs for mulit-purposes. One main purpose is that I use a "Real" Leslie 3300 for live performances and need the flexibility to send the organ audio out directly to my 3300 and not sacrifice other key options. Since I have 2 keyboards, my JP80 registrations vary dramatically for each song (including which keyboard, splits, layers, octaves, etc). Each registration is setup & titled for each and every song. For me, the work-around is to set Sub Outs in the system setup to "Lower", but this uses up the entire Lower part of the Live Set just for organ... because both Percussion & Solo for some reason do not allow the drawbar settings screen to come up. I called Roland about this Sub Out issue, and at least they are going to put this in the suggestion box... what ever good that will do. The agreed that Sub Outs on other Roland synths are programmable, why they chose this architecture, who knows.

Unfortunately it seems to be the case, which is quite annoying. It's sad that they didn't think about the performer here.
On the Integra-7 we can assign the SUB-OUTs in MONO (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8) or STEREO pairs (A, B,C, D) to any Part within a StudioSet. Another StudioSet can have a complete different assignment. Very flexible!

3) External Midi: Somewhat limited, expecially if someone has two keyboards (with "local" turned off on 2nd keyboard) and wants to layer/split internal sounds on 2nd keyboard with the JP80. The "remote switch" option in the system allows this but cuts out midi from coming back to the JP80 when turned on. Anyway, the Midi options they provided work fine as long as you are just using the Roland JP80 to play from but not designed as a complex midi controller to setup layers/splits on external midi devices.

Agree. The JP-80 has an External Parts setting but it is very limited. Only 4 Parts (MIDI channels at once) and just a few parameters.

[SoundworldA.D.]

Welcome to the JP-80 world SzzG! Glad you are enjoying the great sound capabilities of the Jupiter-80.

I have also experienced annoying MIDI issues with the Remote Switch. I control the JP-80 and several other modules from the OASYS and an MC-80. If I want a Registration to sound correctly with all of its parts and the arpeggiator, I have to set the Remote Switch to ON. But when I do that, even if I have another MIDI channel (5-16) selected to access one of my other modules, the Jupiter still sounds, even though I only have it assigned to MIDI channels 1-4.

I have tried all kinds of different methods to get around this to no avail. It is an inconvenience to be sure, but is only an issue if I'm trying to play a full arpeggiated Registration with the Remote Switch ON. If I pick a Live Set or single sound, I can just leave the RS OFF and it is not an issue.

[SynthzzGuy]

PauloF -
SoundworldA.D. -

Thanks for the welcome & additional info.

Besides these 3 main issues, I must say it's really an amazing sounding synth! I discover something awesome everyday.

Hopefully, someday we will have a true editor-librarian, and one that can "audition sounds" on the fly before loading them, tweak, & arrange tones, live sets, registers quickly. At this point, I am not even going to attempt to gather/arrange a "my favorites" bank... just too many linking issues that could arrise. That's the nice thing about having good editor-librarian, it instantly flags any associated, broken-links.

As far as Sub Outs & midi... I am over the initial shock of the architecture, I should not have assumed it was similar to the i7. However, I still pick the JP80 over the i7 because of it's massive sound, many other "positives" it has, and ease of use.

thanks,
SynthzzGuy

[cello]

Just adding my welcome to the clan, Synthzzguy :)

Great responses as always from PauloF and SoundworldA.D.

Regarding your comments about a librarian. Indeed this is top of most JP-80 users' wishlist. So many of Roland's synths have such a capability however, I am assured (by Roland) that there will be no editor for the JP-80 :( I know the effort that several regional Roland offices went to to try and convince Roland JP that a librarian was required by the market.

That effort was not rewarded, with only a polite decline coming from Roland JP.

So we have what we have. Some folks use different USBs to hold different banks of sounds. Others (like me) have multiple instances of sounds on on USB (one active folder called ROLAND, then others called ROLAND - BRASS, ROLAND - v1, ROLAND - LEGACY and so on) and rename them on PC to make a different active one.

Doesn't get round the pain of knowing which sounds are used by which livesets/registrations.

You may wish to download my file which 'blanks' your JP-80 from http://www.jp-80.com. This helps in that it makes all sounds INIT on the JP-80 (doesn't remove the SN Acoustic tones however as they are stored in a different place) and then gives you room to import sound libraries as they come up from time to time.

I still marvel at how powerful this synth is - for those that don't 'get it' then they don't know what they're missing!

[SynthzzGuy]

Cello-

Thanks for the welcome and info.

Regarding your comments about a librarian. Indeed this is top of most JP-80 users' wishlist. So many of Roland's synths have such a capability however, I am assured (by Roland) that there will be no editor for the JP-80 :( I know the effort that several regional Roland offices went to to try and convince Roland JP that a librarian was required by the market.

After reading all the posts regarding this, last week, I have been in contact with Sound Quest / Midi Quest. Not to get everyone's hopes up too high, they are looking in to the possiblilty of developing an JP80 editor-librarian and could be available for purchase later this year. "Don't hold our breaths". Being that I am PC-based, I suggested PC (of course) but I am sure they will decide what is more profitable for them in today's market. Cross-platform would be great, but wishful thinking.

SynthzzGuy

[cello]

Well that would be quite a development, SynthzzGuy!

I won't hold my breath, as you advise, however, put me down as someone who would pay for such a thing! (PC preferred here too.)

[PauloF]

Well that would be quite a development, SynthzzGuy!

I won't hold my breath, as you advise, however, put me down as someone who would pay for such a thing! (PC preferred here too.)

"PC Preferred here too" you say?

Ts ts ts Cello, I'm disappointed. Mac is the way to go!!! ;-)

P.S: I can tell you my story... from PC to MAC....and from Mac back to PC again. :-D

[kimsnarf]

At this point, I am not even going to attempt to gather/arrange a "my favorites" bank... just too many linking issues that could arrise. That's the nice thing about having good editor-librarian, it instantly flags any associated, broken-links.

This is the primary goal of the tool I am developing. I'm currently working on reordering live sets and tones without breaking dependencies. After that I will look into copying between sound sets.

The tool is SVD-file based. The current approach is based on exporting the sounds to USB, organizing them on a computer, blanking the Jupiter (as Cello mentioned), then importing the sounds again.

It would be great to use the backup/restore mechanism to skip the blanking step, but that is more complex to implement.

The tool is cross-platform via Renoise/Lua, but uses Renoise only for the GUI (and MIDI). It could be converted to another GUI without too much effort.

[SynthzzGuy]

This is the primary goal of the tool I am developing. I'm currently working on reordering live sets and tones without breaking dependencies. After that I will look into copying between sound sets.

The tool is SVD-file based. The current approach is based on exporting the sounds to USB, organizing them on a computer, blanking the Jupiter (as Cello mentioned), then importing the sounds again.

kimsnarf-

Sounds like an awesome tool that you are developing and certainly would benefit all the JP80 users.
I appreciate the info and the great effort on your behalf to develop such a tool for future use.

SynthzzGuy

[OMNICELL]

Im like you! Im not new here! I have a Jupiter 80; been playing in it like in a sandbox for the last week!

I was thrown off at first; it took awhile to trust....

After the demise of the Fantom x! Roland was not a company I thrilled to do business with!

I find the JP-80 one of the best synths of the decade!

I think the secrets are beyond Roland. This boards limitations have become its greatest lime light adventures.. I could get lost in this thing for 6 months!

[skinmechanic]

I think that's the thing, I sand boxed my JP80 this weekend, nothing else was switched on. I sat down and for about 4 or 5 hours each day over the weekend went into the Live sets and partials themselves and literally went through them all and by doing that I tweaked and actually programmed my first ever sounds on this thing. I have to say even editing and tweaking only the partials I found I could have gone further buy layering them into a live set or even going one further with a registration but I didn't even scratch the surface with the partials.

I found a new love of my JP80 and i'm sure if Roland could have built the workflow much better with this thing, then the majority of people who have tried this machine or only scratched the surface would have got deeper into this thing or seen the potential for it to be more successful in terms of sales than it did.

I truly believe it is the most misunderstood Synth from Roland and in time it will become a classic, a bit like the JD800 was misunderstood in 1991.

[SynthzzGuy]

1) Sound Management: is a nightmare without a librarian/editor. I read the thread with all the postings from many users for a requests for one. I dito that. However, it seems that this is a dead issue and many have given up ? But maybe there is still hope: I have been dealing with "Sound Quest / Midi Quest" for many years and have enjoyed other librarians they have developed. I emailed them asking if they have any plans on developing a JP80 Librarian/Editor... and not to get everyones hopes up too high, they replied back and said "Hopefully there will be a Jupiter 80 compatible editor available for Midi Quest later this year". Of course this would'nt be free, but I for one, would definetly be the first in line to purchase it.

2) Sub Outs: One of my biggest issues. These should have been assignable/saved for each "Part" at the "Live Set" level NOT as a "Global" system setting. Reason ? I use the Sub Outs for mulit-purposes. One main purpose is that I use a "Real" Leslie 3300 for live performances and need the flexibility to send the organ audio out directly to my 3300 and not sacrifice other key options. Since I have 2 keyboards, my JP80 registrations vary dramatically for each song (including which keyboard, splits, layers, octaves, etc). Each registration is setup & titled for each and every song. For me, the work-around is to set Sub Outs in the system setup to "Lower", but this uses up the entire Lower part of the Live Set just for organ... because both Percussion & Solo for some reason do not allow the drawbar settings screen to come up. I called Roland about this Sub Out issue, and at least they are going to put this in the suggestion box... what ever good that will do. The agreed that Sub Outs on other Roland synths are programmable, why they chose this architecture, who knows.

3) External Midi: Somewhat limited, expecially if someone has two keyboards (with "local" turned off on 2nd keyboard) and wants to layer/split internal sounds on 2nd keyboard with the JP80. The "remote switch" option in the system allows this but cuts out midi from coming back to the JP80 when turned on. Anyway, the Midi options they provided work fine as long as you are just using the Roland JP80 to play from but not designed as a complex midi controller to setup layers/splits on external midi devices.

This forum has been extremely helpful to me with other issues with my new Jupiter 80 and thank all of you very much !

However, I have tried really hard to find work-around's for my 3 main issues. The global sub out issue just will NOT work with my setup and along limited external MIDI controls. Also, the fact that it is not looking very promising there will ever be a "true Windows-based librarian/editor" where I can logically, organize & audition ALL available sounds for this awesome-sounding JP80 synth.

Dues to these factors, I am selling my brand new Jupiter 80 (U.S only). It is in absolutely in like-new MINT CONDITION. If interested, contact me privately at: andreuz_satx@yahoo.com

thanks,
SynthzzGuy

[SynthzzGuy]

Took a few days to sell my Jupiter 80... it is now SOLD and shipped to it's new home. I will truly miss the awesome synth sounds it has, but due to issues I had with sub-outs, MIDI, & lack of a windows-based librarian/editor... it just had to go.

In the meantime, I purchased a new Korg Kronos X. Wow... I have to say the pianos are FAR better than any previous Korg products like the M-50, O1w & M3 and at least as good as the JP80s. Excellent synth sounds as well. Also, the windows VST editor is great along with numerous routing options for sub-outs & MIDI. So far, I have not come across any issues. With the sampler, adding additional SSD, there are no limits. I guess it all comes down what each of our individual needs are using the keyboard for.

I appreciate all the support from this wonderful forum.

Thanks,
SynthzzGuy

[PauloF]

Took a few days to sell my Jupiter 80... it is now SOLD and shipped to it's new home. I will truly miss the awesome synth sounds it has, but due to issues I had with sub-outs, MIDI, & lack of a windows-based librarian/editor... it just had to go.

In the meantime, I purchased a new Korg Kronos X. Wow... I have to say the pianos are FAR better than any previous Korg products like the M-50, O1w & M3 and at least as good as the JP80s. Excellent synth sounds as well. Also, the windows VST editor is great along with numerous routing options for sub-outs & MIDI. So far, I have not come across any issues. With the sampler, adding additional SSD, there are no limits. I guess it all comes down what each of our individual needs are using the keyboard for.

I appreciate all the support from this wonderful forum.

Thanks,
SynthzzGuy

I'm glad you're happy with your new Kronos X.

Maybe a bit too complex for my taste (and available money :-p), but from what I read and heard it really seems very, if not the most powerful Workstation in the market today.