Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby kimsnarf » 07:43, 29 February 2016

Dewdman42 wrote:I personally don't think we're gonna see a next gen Jupiter 80. Enjoy this one, its never going to get another update, its never going to get a librarian, and its never going to get a successor. Its a unique synth on its own right. The price has to come down probably because they are going to discontinue it and they don't want the inventory anymore. Roland is moving on to something else.


You are probably right and I am fairly certain that owners are enjoying it. :) But I don't think Roland will abandon the Jupiter name nor its concept as a flagship synth. A direct Jupiter-80 successor is highly unlikely, but it's still fun to discuss what could have been. I do think an ACB flagship is probable though. They have the technology. It is cheaper to build than an analog and can therefore have more voices than the competition. And people like the sound, even purists and Jupiter 8 owners.

With Yamaha releasing the Montage, which in many ways builds on features pioneered on the Jupiter-80, I have new hopes that Roland will eventually respond with a new flagship of their own. Hopefully both with acoustic sounds and better analog (ACB?). Not as a cross-over sound-design tool, but as a pure performance powerhouse. The JD-XA is not a flagship nor did it get the Jupiter name, but the concept is interesting.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby timbo4000 » 10:15, 29 February 2016

I think roland will eventually respond with some super synth, whether it be supernatural, analog or abc. May be a jupiter or Fantom or something new. Taking into consideration yamaha have released the montage roland will have to release a synth better at some point because they want to be the best. It may be this year or in a few years, sooner the better. I'll be happy with my jupiter 80 for many years to come n matter what is released.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby Jan_nl » 18:08, 29 February 2016

I'm still hoping for a new workstation featuring an upgraded SN-engine.
I know quite a few musicians who have an Integra-7 and loving the sound of the supernatural engine.
I remember that the Brass card for the Fantom G (ARX-03) had some sort of ensemble mode, and it would be great to have a feature like that also in the next-generation Fantom.
It's been eight years now since the Fantom G saw the light of day, and I miss Roland's presence in the higher end workstation market. The FA is nice, but not really a follow-up to the Fantom range.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby Jan_nl » 18:37, 29 February 2016

I just checked the manual, and the ensemble mode of the ARX-03 I was referring to was implemented as either 'unison' or 'stack' mode.
I can't recall if this feature found its way in any other product of Roland, and if not, it's a pity because it's really very good. As a matter of fact, Yamaha must have felt the same when they decided to implement a similar auto-divisi ensemble mode in the Tyros 5.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby Synthtron » 19:13, 29 February 2016

It would be nice for a Jupiter reboot. A synth with 61 keys and synth engine along the lines of the JD-XA crossover idea. It would need more polyphony for the analog section, all of the sliders/controls and the flexibility of creating splits and layers from the Jupiter-80.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby kimsnarf » 19:53, 29 February 2016

Jan_nl wrote:I can't recall if this feature found its way in any other product of Roland, and if not, it's a pity because it's really very good. As a matter of fact, Yamaha must have felt the same when they decided to implement a similar auto-divisi ensemble mode in the Tyros 5.


The Jupiter-80 has a divisi mode but Roland did not advertise it. The included registrations do not utilize it either. When the Tyros 5 later got it Yamaha made a big deal of it. Similar story with the Tone Blender vs the Super Knob. Yamaha get people excited about features Roland already have.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby cello » 20:46, 29 February 2016

kimsnarf wrote:Similar story with the Tone Blender vs the Super Knob. Yamaha get people excited about features Roland already have.


Exactly how the superknob struck me! - and I prefer the expression pedal route as it keeps hands free for playing.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby PauloF » 14:59, 4 March 2016

cello wrote:
kimsnarf wrote:Similar story with the Tone Blender vs the Super Knob. Yamaha get people excited about features Roland already have.


Exactly how the superknob struck me! - and I prefer the expression pedal route as it keeps hands free for playing.


In my view the only department where Roland loses against the competition is the ARPs, as Korg and Yamaha are miles away, but regarding sound... Well, Roland still rules!!!
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby Jan_nl » 19:13, 4 March 2016

kimsnarf wrote:
Jan_nl wrote:I can't recall if this feature found its way in any other product of Roland, and if not, it's a pity because it's really very good. As a matter of fact, Yamaha must have felt the same when they decided to implement a similar auto-divisi ensemble mode in the Tyros 5.


The Jupiter-80 has a divisi mode but Roland did not advertise it. The included registrations do not utilize it either. When the Tyros 5 later got it Yamaha made a big deal of it. Similar story with the Tone Blender vs the Super Knob. Yamaha get people excited about features Roland already have.

Do you mean the Harmony Intelligence function?
I read the manual, and although it has the divisi mode I think it is different from what the ARX-3 features.
I'm not sure, so correct me if I'm wrong, but the Harmony Intelligence is more of a harmonizer function. It adds additional voices to the note you play, but the auto-divisi in the ARX-3 card is something different.
With the ARX-03, if you play one note, all the instruments you use are assigned to the one note.
If you play two notes, the instruments are automatically divided between the two notes, and the same is true for each consecutive note.
So if you use four instruments like 1 trumpet, 2 saxes and 1 trombone and you play one note, all four instruments will play that one note.
If you play two notes, the upper note is played by 1 trumpet and 1 sax, and the lower note is played by 1 sax and 1 trombone, and so forth.
It mimics what happens in real life and as such it is far more realistic than the traditional 'brass' patch.

Similarly the ARX-03 has a stack mode next to the unison mode.
In this mode, if you play one note, the first instrument will sound.
If you play two notes, the first instrument will continue to sound, but the second will be added on top of that. If you play three notes, a third instrument will be added for the third note, and so on.
Again this simulates what happens in real life and adds to the realism.

Four years after Roland released this card Yamaha came out with the Tyros 5 with a brand new 'ensemble' feature as a special highlight.
It's an important feature and a very good idea, and such a pity that Roland did not incorporate it in other products and did not put it more in the spotlight.
I hope they haven't forgotten it and that they will use it (as well as the Harmony Intelligence feature of the JP-80) in the future as well. I think both features are great and worthwhile additions.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby kimsnarf » 22:02, 4 March 2016

Jan_nl wrote:With the ARX-03, if you play one note, all the instruments you use are assigned to the one note.
If you play two notes, the instruments are automatically divided between the two notes, and the same is true for each consecutive note.
So if you use four instruments like 1 trumpet, 2 saxes and 1 trombone and you play one note, all four instruments will play that one note.
If you play two notes, the upper note is played by 1 trumpet and 1 sax, and the lower note is played by 1 sax and 1 trombone, and so forth.
It mimics what happens in real life and as such it is far more realistic than the traditional 'brass' patch.


On the Jupiter-80 this is called a Layer Section.

From the Keyboard Magazine review:
The Jupiter-80 simulates divisi playing after a fashion, via a per-Tone toggle (in Live Sets) called “Layer Section.” Play a single note, and every Tone you’ve enabled will voice it in unison. Playing multiple notes allocates the Tone in layer 1 to the highest note, layer 2 to the next note down, and so on. To approximate a string quartet, you’d put violins in layers 1 and 2, viola in layer 3, and cello in layer 4.

This works with most SuperNatural Acoustic (but not synth) sounds. It’s not perfect, but it’s the only solution I’ve seen in a hardware synth that lets you direct divisi proceedings without deep programming.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby Jan_nl » 22:24, 4 March 2016

kimsnarf wrote:
Jan_nl wrote:With the ARX-03, if you play one note, all the instruments you use are assigned to the one note.
If you play two notes, the instruments are automatically divided between the two notes, and the same is true for each consecutive note.
So if you use four instruments like 1 trumpet, 2 saxes and 1 trombone and you play one note, all four instruments will play that one note.
If you play two notes, the upper note is played by 1 trumpet and 1 sax, and the lower note is played by 1 sax and 1 trombone, and so forth.
It mimics what happens in real life and as such it is far more realistic than the traditional 'brass' patch.


On the Jupiter-80 this is called a Layer Section.

From the Keyboard Magazine review:
The Jupiter-80 simulates divisi playing after a fashion, via a per-Tone toggle (in Live Sets) called “Layer Section.” Play a single note, and every Tone you’ve enabled will voice it in unison. Playing multiple notes allocates the Tone in layer 1 to the highest note, layer 2 to the next note down, and so on. To approximate a string quartet, you’d put violins in layers 1 and 2, viola in layer 3, and cello in layer 4.

This works with most SuperNatural Acoustic (but not synth) sounds. It’s not perfect, but it’s the only solution I’ve seen in a hardware synth that lets you direct divisi proceedings without deep programming.

I did not know it existed in the JP-80, thanks for enlightening me.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby cello » 22:44, 4 March 2016

Wow - thanks guys! I had no idea that the JP-80 could simulate divisi - I've just gone and transformed what I thought were excellent SN sounds I created into fantastic ones :)

I agree - Roland need to keep this feature in future models - and I never saw the divisi feature promoted in any of the videos I've seen.

(Just as a point to note, the FA which has SN sounds does not have the divisi - layer section - capability)
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby Jan_nl » 14:46, 5 March 2016

I found it.
It's in the parameter list of the JP-80 and activated by the Layer Section Switch, p.21+23, and it's the equivalent of the 'unison' mode in the ARX-03.
It seems the 'stack' mode is unique to the ARX-03.
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby flyingace » 22:51, 15 March 2016

Hey Cello! Can you elaborate on how to set this up? I have been looking in the parameter list of the JP-80 for the Layer Section Switch that activates this feature? Any more info would be great!

Thanks!

cello wrote:Wow - thanks guys! I had no idea that the JP-80 could simulate divisi - I've just gone and transformed what I thought were excellent SN sounds I created into fantastic ones :)

I agree - Roland need to keep this feature in future models - and I never saw the divisi feature promoted in any of the videos I've seen.

(Just as a point to note, the FA which has SN sounds does not have the divisi - layer section - capability)
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Re: Musikmesse and Jupiter 80 replacements?

Postby cello » 23:36, 15 March 2016

flyingace wrote:Hey Cello! Can you elaborate on how to set this up? I have been looking in the parameter list of the JP-80 for the Layer Section Switch that activates this feature? Any more info would be great!

Thanks!


Here you go -> http://youtu.be/pyTLv6QOqcE
(A short video I made about divisi and how to set it up)
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