Motif ES

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noisemaker
Posts: 125
Joined: 17:53, 25 April 2003
Location: Colorado, USA

Motif ES

Post by noisemaker »

2TIM316
Posts: 1360
Joined: 08:45, 29 May 2003

The Rumors Were True!

Post by 2TIM316 »

I think it was Tony Clifton who first posted about the Motif ES. In any case we can probably claim that the news broke here on Artemio's site first. I checked Motifator.com regularly since we received this news, and not a word was mentioned about it over there. It was not until June 30 that someone "leaked" the news on Motifator.com, and the post was promptly deleted.

This news of the Motif ES puts some real pressure on Roland. IMHO it magnifies Roland's bad decision not to make the Fantom-S 128 note polyphonic. Everyone screams for more polyphony. It seems to be the number one want/need of most users. Like I posted previously if Roland was able to include 128 note polyphony in the XV-5080 which was released over three years ago, it seems ridiculous that their "Flagship" synth for 2003 would have only 64. Now with the Motif ES's 128 note polyphony, Roland may have to do some significant damage control to retain market share.

As regards the other features, I don't think they are that big of a deal. But in descending order (IMHO again) Roland now must compete with:

1) Motif ES's 512 of maximum sample RAM
2) Motif ES's triple-strike acoustic piano
3) Motif ES's 185 megabytes of internal wave ROM
4) Motif ES's enhanced effects - too complicated to list here

I'm sort of sad for Roland. I;ve been a Roland devotee since 1985 when I bought my first Roland product - the MKS-80. Since then I've owned more than 10 Roland synths, modules, and peripherals. I want to see them produce a flagship instrument that I can purchase with pride. Sadly, it looks like my business will be going to Yamaha and the Motif ES. It's just too powerful to ignore it simply to remain a Roland loyalist.

But time will tell. The Motif ES won't be released until early October at least. By that time the Fantom-S will have been around a while, and maybe Roland will even meet the challenge by hinting at some upgradeability for the Fantom-S. It's going to be an interesting second half of 2003, that's for sure!
2TIM316
Posts: 1360
Joined: 08:45, 29 May 2003

Glitch

Post by 2TIM316 »

Is there any way to delete a message you've posted? I accidently posted my previous message twice.
FatBoyJim
Posts: 1715
Joined: 07:53, 4 May 2003
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Motif ES

Post by FatBoyJim »

“The Motif ES won't be released until early October at least.”

Is this the breaking news that all of the hype has been about? If so, then let me start another major breaking story. Korg will also have something out about the same time. I’m sorry, but I was expecting this Yamaha rumor to produce something well before October. About three months ago, some time before I bought my FS, I inquired about a used Triton Studio from an add placed on Harmony Central by a guy named Jay that lives near Hollywood CA. We could not agree about a price for his TS but we got to talking because he was a DJ and because he knew a lot about what was going on with keyboards and what not because he works at Guitar Center. At that time he said to me the FS was a bad choice because both Yamaha and Korg were going to have something new out in 6 to 8 months. Well it looks like he was right about the Yamaha part so I am going to guess that he is right about the Korg part as well. I am not trying to say I knew this information first or anything like that. I am just saying that this seems to go along with what I am guessing was what a lot of dealers were expecting and had been told. This guy Jay made it sound like this was common knowledge and that this would be the expected time for something like this to happen after Summer NAMM. I will guess that like most new products it will also be delivered a little later than what was expected.

You the man, Artemio!
buzzbro
Posts: 167
Joined: 20:27, 30 May 2003
Location: Canada

Re: Motif ES

Post by buzzbro »

The MO ES looks pretty cool.

1. 512 ram - personally, I maybe use half of my S88 maxed out ram.
2. would that be the same piano that's in the S90? It's a pretty good piano, but some of us like Roland's SRX and S88/SRX hybrid pianos better.
3. 185 MB wave rom - that's killer -we need expanders for that.
4. 8 insert effects? - the specs sound impressive


I'm surprised to see it still has the small screen - what's with that?

I'm still glad I have the FAS88 - I'm having a blast and making great music with it. I played an outdoor show yesterday (Canada Day) and the other bands on the bill were oogling over my keyboard and commented on how good it sounds. The piano player for the headling act used my FAS88/SRX and was totally tripped. He was a great player, and the FOH piano sound was fantastic.


Don't say that about Korg FBJ, I have a Triton Studio 88 on order - I don't want it to be outdated before I get it. (late Jul.) I agree, it's going to be an interesting rest-of-year.


Cheers,

bb
FatBoyJim
Posts: 1715
Joined: 07:53, 4 May 2003
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Motif ES

Post by FatBoyJim »

I am downloading the audio samples as I write this and have been doing so ever since my post above. This is where being a tight ass can bit you in the ass. 56K modem at 48.0 Kbps takes downloads forever. I do have a prediction about the audio samples of the new Motif ES. I am sure they are going to rock. Yamaha audio samples always impress me. If only Roland could do the same with there audio samples.

You the man, Artemio!
MK
Posts: 310
Joined: 21:11, 30 May 2003
Location: On the black and white keys

Re: Motif ES

Post by MK »

The ES is a significant upgrade but it is still the basic MOTIF, not an entirely new product. Where are the pads? Where is the user-friendly display? Nowhere to be found. It is just another step in the competition among the Asian synth manufacturers. Next year at this time we will probably own or hear about the Fantom-ES or Fantom-SX. It never ends.

Sounds are nice, but they alone no longer impress me. Audio technology has progressed to the point where it does not matter a whole lot which of these high-end synths one buys. They all sound good. Your audience, whether live or CD listeners, will not know nor care what was used to produce your music. As long as they are entertained it won't matter a bit.

Thinking back a few decades, the situation reminds me of the same competition in stereo equipment back in the 70's. Eventually one day all stereos sounded great. Good sound no longer mattered to the buyer because everything became distortion-free.

That same point has nearly been reached with synths. It is going to happen in this decade. Maybe we will have to wait for 512 or 1,024 notes of polyphony to please everyone, but sooner or later the sound is going to be so good that just having good sound will be a minor point. No one will be able to deny it any longer then.

What are all of you going to do when Kurzweil releases their K3000 with a color display and 256 voices? Dump your MOTIF ES?
FatBoyJim
Posts: 1715
Joined: 07:53, 4 May 2003
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Motif ES

Post by FatBoyJim »

Good points as always MK!
No, currently I have no plans to dump my FS and I am still very much in love with it. I am not saying that the Motif ES is better than the FS but what I would like to say is if you always have to have the latest and greatest then in this day and age you will never win. To jump on the band wagon and say the Motif ES blows the FS away without actually seeing and playing one personally than I would be in the same boat as the people that bashed the FS before it was even released or after it was released but never touching one personally.
I was expecting more from the Motif ES audio samples. They are good and I stand by my post above about Roland’s audio samples never impress me like Yamahas but these are not the mind blowing audio samples I expected like the ones for the EX5 or the original Motif. This probably also goes along with what you said earlier MK about the sounds. I think that all of the current keyboards sound great so now when I hear audio samples like these they just don’t knock me over like they used to.

You the man, Artemio!
FatBoyJim
Posts: 1715
Joined: 07:53, 4 May 2003
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Motif ES

Post by FatBoyJim »

My opinion about a new workstation from Korg is that obviously the guy I talked to that worked at Guitar Center about buying his used TS knew what he was talking about in terms of something new from Yamaha. So he is probably more than likely right then about something new from Korg as well but I am guessing that a new product from Korg is less likely to happen. The new Yamaha is in update of an existing product. Many people have said before that the Triton Studio is probably about as far as the Triton series can go. With that in mind Korg is probably going to make a whole new workstation which would involve a lot more work than putting out an updated version of one? I won’t be surprised if it happens about the same time that Yamaha puts out the new Motif but I could see how this could happen from Korg later rather than sooner.

You the man, Artemio!
Tony Clifton
Posts: 269
Joined: 19:59, 26 May 2003
Location: NYC/FLA

Re: Motif ES

Post by Tony Clifton »

Noise you the MAN!!!!!!!
Sam Ash told me early fall so not too far off and rumor seems true now!
FBJ is right in thinking Korg will follow suit with UPGRADES but at a slower pace.
Roland played it too safe and conservative IMHO and will follow suit a little later too but has to eat the Fantom-S shortcomings now I do feel like a spoiled Brat to say that as I am more than happy with the S88.
The only 64 polyphony issue plus no Akai compatability and not using USB 2 for faster uploads and downloads could have helped as well as Compact flash media reader for bigger storage capacity.
The Korg TS has internal HD plus a lot of great sounds but the Korg deals and rebates seem now to have been an effort to UNLOAD an END of the Line product.
The S-90 triple action type key for the new Motif ES was another thing Sam Ash told me about.
So I agree with FBJ that Korg has got a bigger project ahead than simply an UPGRADE to more Sample ram or Polyphony.
If the Motif ES had come out now I probably would bought it.
However I've gotten attached to this Roland Fantom-S :-)
Being a Mac user I'm used to cutting edge coming out after you buy what you thought was cutting edge you NEVER WIN at that game do you?
I am definetly interested in the Motif Rack and maybe it will go down a few hundred bucks in October?
SO MUCH GREAT GEAR AND NO MONEY LEFT!
Thanks for the NEWS UPDATES you guys keep em coming!
FatBoyJim
Posts: 1715
Joined: 07:53, 4 May 2003
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Motif ES

Post by FatBoyJim »

Man the Internet is a harsh place! Earlier this morning when I was waiting, waiting, and still waiting for my Motif ES audio samples to completely download I went to Harmony Central to see what the buzz on the Motif ES was over there. Page one of this thread was very positive toward the new Motif and it is all that there was on this thread earlier today.
http://acapella.harmony-central.com/for ... genumber=1
I just went back there to see what was going on with this thread and it is already on page three and things have gotten ugly toward the new Motif. I have to admit that this does make me feel better about all of the Fantom-S bashing. I really thought that the majority opinion on the FS was negative but I am being educated more and more about the realities of the Internet. Something that was nice to see on this thread was tdm71 in a panic that his new motif rack was just outdated. It’s nice to know that he is no longer even reading our posts or he would have known better than to buy it because something else was coming out from Yamaha.


You the man, Artemio!
2TIM316
Posts: 1360
Joined: 08:45, 29 May 2003

Upon further consideration...

Post by 2TIM316 »

This thread really shows the power of the internet and bulletin board posting. It's not unlike the forums or debate societies that learned men have participated in throughout history. It's amazing that in less than 24 hours of Yamaha releasing this information, we're all debating the merits of this equipment from various world locations, and almost in real time. Amazing! I remember when information on new products took months to trickle out of the few music equipment journal sources such as Keyboard. Long live the internet!

Okay, upon further consideration I think the point is being made and IMHO rightly so, that numbers aren't everything. The Motif is well-known for being not all that user-friendly, and Yamaha informs that they will not be significantly changing the OS and UI. So this may be Roland's saving grace - a friendly operating system and easy musician-friendly way of producing music quickly and efficiently on the Fantom-S.

To many people, myself included, who don't consider PCs an elegant and quick music producing solution (not that I'm afraid or unfamiliar with PCs in the least), an easy, quick, efficient, and elegant workflow (such as the Fantom-S advertises) would challenge and might for many users even beat an extra 64 notes of polyphony, 200 megs of Sample RAM, and all of the other bells and whistles the Motif ES will tout.

Korg - hmmm. I picture them still trying to beat the almost dead horse of the Triton with some new configuration. The "Hip-Hop" market must have their Tritons. But we'll see.

The best of both worlds might be Fantom-S with Mo-Rack, but you would give up the new triple-strike piano sound of the Motif ES, even though you could add the Roland SRX piano to the Fantom. To overcome the polyphony issue, you could instead add relatively cheaply the XV-5050 w/ the SRX-02, giving you 64 voices of dedicated piano along with your 64 voices of Fantom-S, and 128 voices of Motif. But now we're into some serious bucks.

It's going to be an interesting second half of 2003, that's for sure!
FatBoyJim
Posts: 1715
Joined: 07:53, 4 May 2003
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Re: Motif ES

Post by FatBoyJim »

This is kind of a follow up to my last post on this thread. I just went to Motifator.com and read the new forum for the new Motif. I can’t believe how may whiners they have over there. Some of the forum members (lets just say a very small amount of them in an effort to prevent anybody from getting upset) think that Yamaha owes them for being owners of the original Motif. This is too funny to me. Don’t people understand how the business world works? I sure hope that this forum doesn’t become a bunch of whiners the next time Roland puts out a new workstation or upgrades the FS. What is even crazier to me is that they have someone from Yamaha on the forum that they can cry to. That’s just crazy!

You the man, Artemio!
MK
Posts: 310
Joined: 21:11, 30 May 2003
Location: On the black and white keys

Re: Motif ES

Post by MK »

In the event Roland upgrades the Fantom-S/S88, then I will buy it and sell my current one on eBay without any complaints. Right now I cannot imagine that happening soon. But if the company does offer an improved model, then I will get it. I love the S88 so much that I would not consider switching to any other workstation as my principal keyboard.

The MOTIF ES has a lot of people interested. I do not see it as that much of an upgrade. You aren't getting additional functionality as when Roland upgraded the Fantom to the Fantom-S. Not that the ES is a bad synth. It just does not make me want to drop everything to rush out and buy it. The next purchase I have planned is a Promega 3, and that won’t be for quite a while, considering how busy I am with my new Roland boards.

There ought to be quite a few discounted and used MOTIFs on eBay in the near future. Watch those 61-key models drop to $600 in the months ahead. How about a nice clearance sale with the factory sealed MOTIF 8 selling for $1,200 or less? You wouldn't have too many polyphony complaints for that price.
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