Korg Kronos

Forum for gear from other manufacturers
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V-CeeOh
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by V-CeeOh »

Right at the bottom of the specs this caugh my attention ;-)
*Developed under license of physical modeling patents (listed in [url=http://www.sondius-xg.com)]http://www.sondius-xg.com)[/url] owned by Stanford University, USA, and by Yamaha Corporation.



Maybe secret Korg agent has something to say about it ;-)
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SammyJames
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by SammyJames »

[EDITED BY AUTHOR]

I was wrting about the Casio VZ and FZ synths, but I don't have enough information at my disposal to properly discuss this topic. I apologize -- I am one of the biggest proponents of having your facts straight -- so I deleted this post.

Thanks!

- Sammy
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SammyJames
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by SammyJames »

@misuspita:
SammyJames - I find it rather hard to believe, since they used in the Oasys a Pentium4 which is a much powerful CPU than an Atom


Okay -- you don't have to believe it -- you're still wrong:

(Atom D525, 1.8GHz dual-core, benchmark -- 718)

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+D525...

and

(P4 2.8 GHz, single-core, benchmark -- 415)

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+4...

- Sammy
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SammyJames
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by SammyJames »

@Artemiy:

I would never ever buy any musical instrument that has a fan. That would be a real bummer if Kronos has a fan...

I'm assuming that you are being competely facetious here. You are aware, I assume, that many more products than are advertised have fans inside of them. Your Mac has a fan in it -- I guarantee you of this. Your Fantom probably has a fan inside of it too, albeit a nice and quiet one. I know for a fact that the Kurzweil K2500, both rack and keyboard units, each has a fan inside of it. You really couldn't hear it, but you could sense that it was running.

Remember that even "low-power" processor chips can emit a fair amount of heat. And sometimes, the reason to use a fan has less to do with the processor itself, and has more to do with the surrounding materials, like rubber and plastic that comprise the innards of a computer device. PCBs can become deformed and cause cracking, for instance, when they get too hot.

There is an easy way to tell when a device has a (quiet) fan: Put your hand next to its cooling vents. If it has a fan, you'll be able to feel a slight breeze.

:)

- Sammy
Jan_nl
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by Jan_nl »

Well, if it turns out that the KRONOS has an audible hum as a result of using a fan then I'm not very keen on buying the instrument either.

Still I find it strange that it has a fan inside since the KRONOS is reported to be completely closed, no holes to move the air out. In a closed apace all a fan can do is move air around, and as the air heats up, all that happens is that hot air is moved around.

I was not aware that the FG has a fan inside, because I never heard it.
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SammyJames
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by SammyJames »

@Jan_nl:
I was not aware that the FG has a fan inside, because I never heard it.


I did not state that the Fantom had a fan in it -- I stated that it probably had a fan in it. It doesn't matter that much though -- I was merely pointing out how many devices have fans in them, and if those fans are properly situated and use steel bearings, then they can be extremely quiet.

And as I stated previously, not being able to hear a fan is no indication that it isn't present. Remember too -- most of us who live in cities hear so much ambient noise that we wouldn't hear it anyway -- partly because it would be masked by other noise -- and partly because most people today can't hear anything below about 20dB.
Well, if it turns out that the KRONOS has an audible hum as a result of using a fan then I'm not very keen on buying the instrument either.


Don't get too upset about fans in computer devices. The most common reason for a noisy fan is that the manufacturer installs a sub-standard one. You can usually buy an upgraded replacement that will operate much more quietly. In short -- you don't want for a device to overheat, ever. It is that simple.

The moving of air by a fan is, itself, not noisy. Fan noise happens because of vibrations caused by the fins and bearings literally vibrating the device's casing, and / or the fan's casing. Cheap fans are typically louder than more expensive ones, because pricier fans are made of more solid, and heavier, materials.

There is a series of trade-offs with every manufactured device. You can have a silent device that won't be that powerful, or an extremely powerful device that belongs on an airstrip. What Korg, Roland, and Yamaha have done is truly a feat -- because they have to weigh every single option against its potential problems. They create products that actually perform, while not weighing 100 pounds. It is a testament to their engineers, despite our many grumblings on here and on other Internet forums.
Still I find it strange that it has a fan inside since the KRONOS is reported to be completely closed, no holes to move the air out. In a closed apace all a fan can do is move air around, and as the air heats up, all that happens is that hot air is moved around.


That is unverifiable right now (I researched it on Google and couldn't find a definite answer). I've not looked at one up-close, but I'm guessing that there are PROBABLY some cooling vents somewhere along the case. The most likely position for such a vent would be on the bottom.

- Sammy
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V-CeeOh
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by V-CeeOh »

I don't remember EVER seeing a Roland keyboard with a fan.
But I know there are a lot of them...
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SammyJames
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by SammyJames »

@V-CeeOh:

You may be correct. However, I can tell you for a fact that the VS-2480CD has a fan in it that was actually somewhat distracting at times. I recall how I placed it as far away as I could from the microphone in my room when I made recordings. I eventually had to put the mic in a closet, because people came over to record and weren't always LOUD ENOUGH to overcome the fan noise...

- Sammy
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PauloF
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by PauloF »

Indeed!
LOL. VC
;-))
Jan_nl
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by Jan_nl »

"Your assertion that the KRONOS has "no vents on it" is unverifiable right now"

The owner of the KORG forum mentioned it where he talks about the design: http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=...
He also confirmed that the KRONOS has a fan inside, but he could not tell if it's audible (thanks to the noise floor at NAMM).
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V-CeeOh
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by V-CeeOh »

Sammy , just to make it clear, I was talking about "keyboards". I do know that a lot of other Roland products use fans.
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SammyJames
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by SammyJames »

@Jan_nl:

Interesting. I wonder why they would design a case without any holes...

It is possible that the NAMM attendees were seeing post-prototypes -- units that were almost ready for sale, but not quite. But I don't know, so I'll shut up about it!

:)

- Sammy

P.S. Okay, I can't shut up about it yet. There are other explanations for all of this. It is possible that --

- The fan that everyone says is so loud doesn't exist. The Atom D525 is, technically, a fanless processor. Unless anyone can truly verify the existence of said fan, then it might not have one.

- The person couldn't spot the vents on the casing (i.e., because they were ultra-low profile and / or hidden somehow).

I'll reserve judgement until I can see pictures of the inside of the unit. I don't care what the Korg Forum owner says -- it is all merely words until we see the images.
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SammyJames
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by SammyJames »

@V-CeeOh:

Yes, I do understand. I'm still sticking to my assertion that some fans are very quiet. The discussion that Jan_nl brought up demonstrates this aptly -- the guy over at KorgForum said himself that he couldn't hear that fan either. (Of course, it is so noisy at NAMM that the crowd noise routinely exceeds the "acceptable" noise level of 85 dB...)

From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAMM

Among music-trade attendees, the NAMM Show is an exhausting ritual. The Anaheim Convention Center is one of the nation's largest, and NAMM (since 2007) completely fills all the available exhibit space, necessitating miles of walking to cover all the exhibits. NAMM is also colloquially called "the world's loudest trade show"[2], although this moniker is also assigned to E3 and other shows involving entertainment. Despite severe regulations on the permissible noise level, sound level meters carried by NAMM personnel routinely exceed the 85 dBA maximum throughout most of the main exhibit hall, simply from the constant background noise.


- Sammy

P.S. And now that I've seen many images of the Roland Fantom, I'm willing to believe that it is fanless. The MV8800 has a big-ol' fan right in the back -- not exactly a "keyboard," but perhaps as close to a synth workstation as Roland may have come to putting a fan into such a product. I think that my MC-80 might have had a fan in it too, but I just can't remember.
Nord72
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by Nord72 »

Fans inside modern IT equipments have a rotation controller circuit as well, so most of the time it remaining as silent as it can, but when something went wrong and overheating occurs it could switch to full speed avoiding any damage in the system.

BUT...probably on an Atom cpu, there only a heat dissipation bridge (for.ex. coppermine) and on the end a backup fan (when needed).
Actually we are guessing what it is exactly.
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SammyJames
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Re: Korg Kronos

Post by SammyJames »

@Nord72:

Yes! My point EXACTLY. We are ALL just guessing, myself included. But it's fun to discuss stuff like this -- for me, anyway. (Anyone who follows my threads knows that I love to talk about nuts and bolts, even if I don't always know exactly what I'm talking about...)

:)

- Sammy
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