Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Forum for JD, JV, XP and XV synthesizers from 1990's
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criostoir
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Joined: 21:54, 7 July 2013

Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Post by criostoir »

I just got an Integra-7 module, so I now have access to all of the expansions and patches, but I'm planning on keeping my XV-5080. The Integra will now get most of the heavy bread and butter sounds (pianos, eq's, etc), so the 5080 if free to do more custom programmed and 3rd party stuff. If I were to keep any SRX's for that, what would you recommend? Any of the boards have a lot of 3rd party support for additional patches?

Thanks!
rcraven
Posts: 629
Joined: 14:36, 9 September 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Post by rcraven »

The Integra is basically 2 units.
One is a XV-5080 with a very reduced FX set.
I found that the sysex is very similar when I programmed the port from XV to Integra.

Unless you use the sampler in combination with the SRX or you need the missing FX or a lot of extra polyphony, I can't see that there is much use to keeping your XV.
Perhaps sell the SRXs and the XV and recover some of your Integra costs.

That being said, I don't have an Integra and I use my XV3080 all the time.

All the best
Royce
rolandvet
Posts: 58
Joined: 21:51, 17 January 2013

Re: Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Post by rolandvet »

I wouldn't keep any of the SRX boards.

However, if you do have some SR/JV boards left over and you want to use their sounds you might want to think twice about getting rid of them and your XV-5080.

For example, the SR/JV-17 "Country" card was my go-to card when I was an XV owner. When I finally sold my XV I kept the card and got the SRX-09 "World" card which has some of the legacy SR/JV-17 sounds. Now that I have the Integra my SRX-09 is on the auction block but I really miss the many Country card sounds not included as either stock or expansion sounds on the Integra (for example, the Integra has no banjo sounds other than a few lousy GM asounds and a small selection of the SR/JV-17 sounds from the SRX-09 card).

To that end I'm actually looking for a very cheap JV-1080 or 2080 (or even a cheap XV 3080) to use specifically for my Country card sounds.
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Monkey Man
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Joined: 01:37, 1 July 2013
Location: Australia

Re: Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Post by Monkey Man »

rcraven wrote:... I found that the sysex is very similar when I programmed the port from XV to Integra...
Royce
Oh man, am I imagining this? Royce, have you devised some new-fangled way to convert XV (5080 in my case) patches to I-7?

Mate, I'm still hangin' on to my fully-loaded unit in the hope that this'll become possible before I have to ditch it for another I-7 or newer model one day. It's occupying the only possible space in my rack as dead weight right now. I think there're about 1000 patches I need to port somehow; they were to provide the backbone to future projects and I wasn't even quite finished 'em when the I-7 appeared.

I fully expect that I've misunderstood what you said, but I live in hope!

In Melbourne too, mate.
Nicky
rcraven
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Joined: 14:36, 9 September 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Post by rcraven »

Some history...
Matt from Patchman asked me to convert his wind controller patches across to the Integra.
Despite all his requests on his side of the pond, I still haven't heard from Roland Australia about borrowing a unit.
So I completed the conversion having never heard the Integra in the days when there wasn't even an editor to look at.
Very hard gig.
As you probably know from viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36711 most of the work is the conversion of the wave table and the MFX.
The MFX is much reduced subset of the XV5080, so there could be lots of sounds you just can't replicate.
For the wave mapping you need to find the new location of the wave.
Roland often rename the same wave.
If that wave is not included you have to find something close.
Both of which are a bit tricky without a unit to listen to.
There was a bit of work on Matt's part to build the wave conversion table for his patches as I recall.

So I'm happy to run your patches through the software, but I am confident a lot won't work because of the need to complete the wave mapping.

Send me a message from way across the Yarra. r p c f e n d e r AT yah oo . c o m . au

All the best
Royce
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Monkey Man
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Location: Australia

Re: Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Post by Monkey Man »

Gee, thank you Royce for your kind offer. Sorry about the delay in replying; I've been ill and have managed to avoid the 'puter for a week.

Before I potentially waste your time with that email, based on what you've said, it sounds like only the factory PCM data has been mapped. Most of my patches utilise the Big Brass Ensemble, Studio, String & Orchestra SRX boards. I basically crossfaded the layers and tweaked the filters as almost all factory patches had lazily neglected to take advantage of this most basic feature. Unless the waves for these boards are pointed to in the INTEGRA post porting of the patches, it's no go, isn't it?

Funny you should mention Matt as I only this year finally upgraded my VL70-m with the Turbo board. Suddenly I find myself seeking a stock VL70-m so I can still use the old tenor and trumpet patches I made. The Turbo patches don't have the same bite I took advantage of and I already miss it. Considering (as I have for many years) 2 or 3 units as my brass section; I've explored the INTEGRA SN-A instruments and constructed sections (pop, funk), but TBH I suspect the VL "array" will blow it away. I'm saying all this in the hope that you might share your thoughts on the matter. I'd have to sacrifice 2 of 4 Motif XS racks (intended backbone of my system 'till the INTEGRA-7 came along) for MIDI ports, rack space and audio inputs, so I'm reluctant to embark on the expensive, possibly lengthy journey without a little more "consultation". I've held out for years as I fully expected Yamaha to release a polyphonic, multi-timbral module that employed the engine many, many years ago...

Thank you again, Royce. I very much appreciate your time. Go 'Pies!
Nicky
rcraven
Posts: 629
Joined: 14:36, 9 September 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Post by rcraven »

Monkey Man wrote:it sounds like only the factory PCM data has been mapped. Most of my patches utilise the Big Brass Ensemble, Studio, String & Orchestra SRX boards.
The waves in each the SRX boards have unique addresses and so I am assuming that the wave addressing in the I7's built in SRX boards is the same.
What this means is that when you edited your patches in the XV with the SRX boards it placed the correct addressing for the SRX card waves in your patch, so you should be good to go after conversion.
Of course you have to load those SRXs into the I7 so the patches can access them.
As the addresses are unique it doesn't matter what slot the SRX is in.
You can send some patches and I'll convert them and you can tell me if SRX waves are in the correct spot.
Funny you should mention Matt as I only this year finally upgraded my VL70-m with the Turbo board. Suddenly I find myself seeking a stock VL70-m so I can still use the old tenor and trumpet patches I made.
There is still the user patch area with Matt's ROM isn't there?
Although I don't have a Turbo in my Vl-70m, I should imagine you can piggyback one ROM on top of the other and bring out the chip select to a switch on the front panel.
Better yet would be a printed circuit board for the two ROMs with a socket used as a plug to go into the ROM socket on the board.
Either way you could convert back and forth between stock and Turbo with a switch on the from panel.
The Turbo patches don't have the same bite I took advantage of and I already miss it. Considering (as I have for many years) 2 or 3 units as my brass section; I've explored the INTEGRA SN-A instruments and constructed sections (pop, funk), but TBH I suspect the VL "array" will blow it away.
The ear has trouble accurately resolving instruments in a section and as such a section, as you know, takes on its unique character. So 3 accurate Vl synth trumpets can often sound like a section that hasn't played much together to my ears and a sampled section sounds better. Perhaps a single VL within a good section might be interesting.
I have messed around a lot with patches with ordinary brass waves that are randomly detuned and attack changed slightly on each note and usually get close to a sound of a section as a choir where all the players are trying to blend. But, as it needs to be subtle, it often isn't worth stuffing around.

Matt has some great sounds for the Motif XS if you haven't tried them that might be a better way to go with the VL-70m Turbo.
I'd have to sacrifice 2 of 4 Motif XS racks (intended backbone of my system 'till the INTEGRA-7 came along) for MIDI ports, rack space and audio inputs, so I'm reluctant to embark on the expensive, possibly lengthy journey without a little more "consultation". I've held out for years as I fully expected Yamaha to release a polyphonic, multi-timbral module that employed the engine many, many years ago...
I can't see it happening.
I have a Motif ES as well and it has a PLG-150VL card which is VL-70m and I have meant to play around with a combination, but haven't had the chance as yet.
The PLG cards don't fit in a XS though.
Thank you again, Royce. I very much appreciate your time. Go 'Pies!
Nicky
Oh yes. September again.
Royce
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Monkey Man
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Re: Which SRX boards to keep for my XV5080...

Post by Monkey Man »

OK, this is my 3rd attempt at a reply, so sorry for the delay once again, Royce. I've had to wait for the pits to dry out a bit after a wet week but my connection's still tenuous at best.

Just spent 90 minutes on my best effort (slow typer etc), only to lose it when I hit the back button after it failed to post. This time I'll have to curtail my enthusiasm somewhat; not well, mate.
rcraven wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:it sounds like only the factory PCM data has been mapped. Most of my patches utilise the Big Brass Ensemble, Studio, String & Orchestra SRX boards.
The waves in each the SRX boards have unique addresses and so I am assuming that the wave addressing in the I7's built in SRX boards is the same.
What this means is that when you edited your patches in the XV with the SRX boards it placed the correct addressing for the SRX card waves in your patch, so you should be good to go after conversion.
Of course you have to load those SRXs into the I7 so the patches can access them.
As the addresses are unique it doesn't matter what slot the SRX is in.
You can send some patches and I'll convert them and you can tell me if SRX waves are in the correct spot.
Brilliant! Thank you, Royce. I'll PM you.
rcraven wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:Funny you should mention Matt as I only this year finally upgraded my VL70-m with the Turbo board. Suddenly I find myself seeking a stock VL70-m so I can still use the old tenor and trumpet patches I made.
There is still the user patch area with Matt's ROM isn't there?
Although I don't have a Turbo in my Vl-70m, I should imagine you can piggyback one ROM on top of the other and bring out the chip select to a switch on the front panel.
Better yet would be a printed circuit board for the two ROMs with a socket used as a plug to go into the ROM socket on the board.
Either way you could convert back and forth between stock and Turbo with a switch on the from panel.
Unfortunately I only saved one patch (a tenor horn), and it works, but my old Internal dumps (64 slots) yield strange-sounding instruments; none is anywhere near the ballpark.

Perhaps the modelling elements themselves were tweaked for the VL board, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why the tenor horn works but not the old bank dumps. If only I'd saved patches rather than the (lazy-man's) bank dumps in the projects where I used the unit. Oh well.

Your amazing chip suggestions are way, way over my head in that I've had no experience in such matters. If I can't get my hands on a factory (Internal) bank dump, and if I do and it doesn't work, it might be worth pursuing your ideas. It'd be either that or a 2nd unit, obviously. I'm at a bit of a loss because, as I said, I'm way out of my league.
rcraven wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:The Turbo patches don't have the same bite I took advantage of and I already miss it. Considering (as I have for many years) 2 or 3 units as my brass section; I've explored the INTEGRA SN-A instruments and constructed sections (pop, funk), but TBH I suspect the VL "array" will blow it away.
The ear has trouble accurately resolving instruments in a section and as such a section, as you know, takes on its unique character. So 3 accurate Vl synth trumpets can often sound like a section that hasn't played much together to my ears and a sampled section sounds better. Perhaps a single VL within a good section might be interesting.
I have messed around a lot with patches with ordinary brass waves that are randomly detuned and attack changed slightly on each note and usually get close to a sound of a section as a choir where all the players are trying to blend. But, as it needs to be subtle, it often isn't worth stuffing around.

Matt has some great sounds for the Motif XS if you haven't tried them that might be a better way to go with the VL-70m Turbo.
Agreed on the section programming thing. I can achieve nice bitey, snappy ones using "amalgamated" patches where either all the instruments or at least groups are used. The built-up-from-scratch ones on the other hand, although more authentic sounding, lack the excitement and immediacy for cutting through the mix and making an impact. I too have wondered how a single trumpet, sax or 'bone on the VL might sound layered with a ROMpler section… for at least 10 years! Sounds like insane laziness, but this was always going to be a bridge I'd cross once I got to the point where it became relevant; been rebuilding from scratch on a tight budget for over a decade. Now that you've floated the idea I'll make doubly sure I follow through on this. Thank you, Royce.

As far as the XS racks are concerned, I've already filled them with Dave Polich's bass, guitar, vintage, organ and pad banks, along with Orchest'rale. I've had to make the decision to tweak patches using the controller offsets only and save projects using multi dumps, as you do, but there's no room in the paradigm for deep tweaking and programme saving. This is because of the lack of free user preset slots remaining and my refusal to run the editor (only used it to dump the bought libraries into the machines). Got burned badly for many, many years by equipment failure and software issues to the point that I took the decision to run DP only. I refuse to use VIs and have managed to avoid purchasing any 3rd party plugs or apps thus far; I'm hoping DP's development over time will mitigate the need altogether.
rcraven wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:I'd have to sacrifice 2 of 4 Motif XS racks (intended backbone of my system 'till the INTEGRA-7 came along) for MIDI ports, rack space and audio inputs, so I'm reluctant to embark on the expensive, possibly lengthy journey without a little more "consultation". I've held out for years as I fully expected Yamaha to release a polyphonic, multi-timbral module that employed the engine many, many years ago...
I can't see it happening.
I have a Motif ES as well and it has a PLG-150VL card which is VL-70m and I have meant to play around with a combination, but haven't had the chance as yet.
The PLG cards don't fit in a XS though.
Yeah, I've heard others say Yamaha won't do it too.

I almost bought an ES just so I could try the Latin Percussion board as I haven't found or been able to programme a decent set of congas yet. Every synth / ROMpler I've bought since 1995 has seen me go straight for a conga sound, only to be disappointed. I'm probably not too fussy tonally, but the sample layers, if any, have always been a let down. I've heard only good things about said percussion board…
rcraven wrote:
Monkey Man wrote:Thank you again, Royce. I very much appreciate your time. Go 'Pies!
Nicky
Oh yes. September again.
Royce
Funny, I normally wouldn't care as I'd be making music, however a prolonged break due to health, equipment and financial bad luck has seen my resorting to ridiculous regimes to pass the time. A lot of time. I've learned to delight in the mundane. Frustrating beyond words, mate.

Thank you, Royce. I cannot thank you enough for your time.
Nicky

PS: Due to many factors beyond my control, please excuse the somewhat erratic nature of the timing of my replies. This'll no doubt play out in our imminent PM exchange too. I'm truly sorry, mate!
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