Could Someone Sample a Couple of Raw Waveforms for Me?

Forum for JD, JV, XP and XV synthesizers from 1990's
MinorKey
Posts: 49
Joined: 16:47, 17 October 2017

Re: Could Someone Sample a Couple of Raw Waveforms for Me?

Post by MinorKey »

So,
Here's a sample of what my patch currently sounds like. As I wrote in my previous post, one familiar with the JV/XV series could probably tell what this patch is supposed to emulate, but for some reason it just doesn't sound good enough. I'm starting to suspect that that noise I mentioned before may be the least of my problems. The thing is that I'm not really sure what to change/adjust at this point. And as for that noisy element, I guess I'll try and replace it with a different string type sound.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks and have fun. :-)
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MinorKey
Posts: 49
Joined: 16:47, 17 October 2017

Re: Could Someone Sample a Couple of Raw Waveforms for Me?

Post by MinorKey »

So, after quite some hesitation I have finally decided to get me a new toy to play with = I bought an XV-2020 (I'm still waiting for it to arrive tho). Needless to say, I'm pretty excited about it. I know that it's arguably the weakest machine in the XV series, but I think that for my purposes it will do just fine. I was also considering the other models (would have preferred the 5050 the most), but they were either well above what I was willing to spend or outside the EU - which would have meant fairly big import taxes (which would have brought me to case 1 again).

I know that it's not the noblest of causes, but one of my projects will now be to make my Motif a little more Roland. Of course, that's not the only reason why I bought the XV, but although I'm a beginner, I have found out that I enjoy synth programming and I think that recreating some of those patches will definitely be fun and will help elevate my programming skills to the next level - I hope to create some unique sounds along the way. Other reasons include love for "retro" stuff and that there is a pretty blind-friendly PC editor for it. If there was an accessible Integra editor, I would get the Integra in a heart beat (well, after a little more saving), but at this point, I refuse to buy something I won't be able to edit without the assistance of a sighted person.

And, rcraven, thanks for the sysex dumps again. As the 2020 is the smallest of the XVs, it's missing some of the patches the others do have (the Jimmee Dee patch is one of them) and so they will definitely come in handy. It may be due to my lack of experience, but I have found that trying to program a particular patch for a different synth is very difficult, if you don't have hands-on access to the original synth. I think I was able to get fairly close by translating the parameters, but now I got to a point where that's not enough. Hopefully I'll succeed once I'll be able to hear each oscillator in isolation. Having a sampled version of the entire patch has helped me a lot, but hopefully it will get much simpler from now on.
rcraven
Posts: 629
Joined: 14:36, 9 September 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Could Someone Sample a Couple of Raw Waveforms for Me?

Post by rcraven »

I have found that if you still have the sound of a patch, but don't have the synth you can get the editor for the absent synth (Roland and Yamaha have good free editors) and load the patch into that.
This lets you see (I assume you have a reader that can help you) what is happening even though you can't isolate elements and hear what is going on without the synth.
The wave names are sometimes useful, but sadly, sometimes obscure.
Still if you can work out the architecture you are a long way to getting the sound.

Roland have been building on their synth engine for many years, releasing many models as they added features, but with the core being the same.

The vintage JD800 has the same architecture as the Motif ES ie 4 elements mixed at the end.
Each elements is oscillator going to filter going to amp with each of these having a separate envelope.
The rest is just modulating by various devices and the FX at the end (insert and global in the Motif).

By the time the XV series came around the 4 tones (elements) could be arranged in a number of ways by changing the Patch Structure.
The 4 Tones of the XV are broken up into 2 pairs ( 1 & 2 and 3 & 4).
For copying the Motif you need the XV structure to be Type 1 in both Tone 1 & 2 and Tone 3 & 4 giving 4 separate Tones (elements ).

There are waveform lists in both the Motif and XV-2020 manuals that you can download and try to match by name.
You will see that both sets of waves will have waves that refer to older synths or makers/models of instruments eg Motif XS "P-Bass Rndwound Med" and the XV "P-Bass 1".
It does help if you are able to translate the various instruments - P-Bass is a Fender Precision Bass (although it doesn't sound like my Fender Precision Fretless Bass)
The Motif XS has samples of both round wound and flat wound strings.

When I wrote a conversion program for patches from XV and FantomX to the Integra for Matt at Patchman Music this approach seemed to work.
I couldn't get hold of the then very new Integra and so I had to guess.
Both being Roland you would think that the names would match, but they didn't.
In this case Matt had an Integra (he is a Roland dealer) and I would shoot the patch conversions over to him to check.

He also asked if his Motif ES patches could be converted and looking at the differences I thought that this would be very difficult to program although do-able manually (read "expensive").

There are a lot of XV presets already out there on the internet for you to play with and improve.
Don't forget that the XV can read the patches of some of the earlier Roland synths as well.
I hope you enjoy the XV.

All the best
Royce
MinorKey
Posts: 49
Joined: 16:47, 17 October 2017

Re: Could Someone Sample a Couple of Raw Waveforms for Me?

Post by MinorKey »

Royce, thanks for your very interesting and informative answer.
So far I have been doing it exactly the way you have described - I loaded up your dumps into the free ChangeIt editor and than tried to copy the original parameters while compensating for; and taking into account the differences between the Roland and Yamaha architectures. My results so far are not perfect, but the essence is nevertheless there and I think it will only improve once my 2020 is here - with a bit of luck it will be sometime next week. Man... I can't wait...

Can I ask you one more thing? Since your so good at it, would you be willing to look up some more similar waveforms for me in the Motif in case I get stuck? I don't need anything right now and I believe I'll manage just fine without help, but may I contact you as a last resort?

And regarding the Integra, I'm testing the accessibility of this editor, it's really hard to do these kind of things without actually owning the board in question, but perhaps it could work for me. Of course, I'll have to do some more testing to know for sure.
And while we are at it, the original (VST3 plugin) Integra editor seems nicely accessible, but now I'm not sure - isn't that only useful for setting the Integra up for use in multitimbral mode? Ok, I know - I'm way off-topic. I must do more digging or start a new thread.

Take care!
rcraven
Posts: 629
Joined: 14:36, 9 September 2007
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Could Someone Sample a Couple of Raw Waveforms for Me?

Post by rcraven »

Your questions are always welcome and I'm happy to help if I can.
The Integra has both the XV style of architecture as well a the different FanG style.
Your editor looks good.
The Roland one that I tried was woeful and very incomplete, a bit of a toy really.
Which is strange for Roland, but it was at a time when the Integra had just been released and you know marketing guys, they hate to wait for anyone including the engineers let alone the poor guys trying to write the documentation.

Hope the XV arrives soon
Royce
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