tweak XV5050 for use with EWI

[mla]

Hi,
I am a sax player... I just got the AKAI EWI5000.
Explore onboard sounds and sure would like to have more sounds.

I have XV-5050 that used for midi files playing until 2002... since that it sits in the closet as a fossil.
I connected EWI to it. Sure there are no control over sounds - it just not reacts to breath sensor.
Sure I would like to use it with EWI.
I have no idea how to edit patches.
May be by chance somebody here is EWI user and can give advice in simple wording how to tweak internal patches in this nice piece of hardware.

I loaded Roland editor for XV and installed it on Windows 10. Surprisingly, it does open :).
So... any help please...
Thanks.

[rcraven]

Hi
I can really recommend Matt Traum from Patchman. An original developer of the EWI's trumpet fingering and a sound designer with a huge collection of patches for a lot of different synths.
I should say at the outset that I know and have worked for Matt .

Quite a while agoI bought an XV set of his to perform with my first wind controller, a great Yamaha WX7.
I now mainly use a WX5 and an EWI 4000.
Both work really well on my XV3080 with his patches.
I can and do develop my own sounds on all my Roland gear, but I do not regret handing over the cash for the XV patches.

https://www.patchmanmusic.com/rolandXV5080.html
There are a few mp3s on this page so you can hear what you are buying.
You can load them into Roland's Library and then send them to the XV.
Once there send a single patche into the Roland Editor (both free at Roland.com) where you can change them and make them your own while getting to know how the XV works at the same time.

The XV can go from realistic to really weird, sounding digital and analog.
Being able to control such a beast and morph the sounds with breath is fantastic.

Honestly, I think that this is really the best, least frustrating way to get up and going with the XV and a wind controller. I will be really surprised if you don't get a blast from the XV with the EWI. It is a great combination.

Fee free to post any questions about this area.

All the best
Royce

[mla]

Royce,
I appreciate your detailed answer... I just do first steps for acquiring EWI techniques.
If you have a sec you can check my first recording (don't have to listen whole track, but the intro of Spain is on EWI with it build in panpipe sound).
https://youtu.be/yI-Lh3zlQnc

Sure more I touch the "toy", more I feel that would be interesting to blow through XV and your advice encourage me. $80 for the patches that would be fully controllable by the EWI is not a big deal. And of course in my searches for EWI on web brought me to the Matt page. I am kinda not sure that it will work straight out after loading and not sure if after sale he will provide a support if needed (I mean just starting correctly). I asked some questions couple of week ago and Matt answered. But I understand he is a "busy beaver"...
I asked the question on Roland forum thinking that somebody could give advice on what to turn in XV editor for make a sound compatible with EWI... after listening the DEMO I understand that it would be waste of time for a person without any experience and real understanding and I am not basically willing to spend too much time on this. So the ready package would be a solution.
What is your opinion about XV Matt patches and "playing" with some soft synth. Some guys sell EWI designed patches that could be cheaper that Matt's pack for XV. Also I am trying to find the info about tweaking soft synth (tons of free for keys) for EWI. I understand that you use both. And I guess you say that it could be a super addition or even the only good solution for a beginner as myself.

Thanks again.
Michael.

[rcraven]

Hi Michael,
It is sounding good to me. The 5000 has some great sounds.
As far as Matt as his patches are concerned, if he is busy you can always ask for help here.

Initially there is some setup to do, but the patches are easy to load once that is done.
**(First make a copy of the Patches and save it to a USB stick with a label on it and pop in your draw.)

You seem to have a Midi interface and so you can plug it in to EWI with a cable or there are videos on how to get the wireless going.
I made a wireless adapter for my EWI 400 and that is really the way to go if you can sort it out.

The XV-5050 has a USB connection for Midi In and Out. Make sure the XV has Receive 'Rx System Exclusive" = ON and device number = 17

As I recall Matt's file is a .Mid file, but you can load this in to the Roland XV Library program.
Let me give you a run down on that. It is a bit long, so perhaps print this message out .

Download and install the Library program (get the Editor while you are there as well as the USB drivers)
https://www.roland.com/global/products/ ... downloads/
Start the Library program.
Go to the menu option Setup / Select Target Model and when the dialog appears select the XV-5050.
Now select Setup / Setup MIDI Devices.. and on the top line select the XV-5050's Input and the XV-5050 Output
On the second line the Input should be from Your EWI and the Output is the same as the line above XV-50505 Output.
The program with merge the Midi data for you.
Playing the EWI should now make sounds on the XV.

In the File menu there is an 'Import SMF..' option (SMF = Standard Midi File and it is OK to overwrite the Main window.) Load in Matt's file.
The trick with Roland's Library programs is understanding that the 'Main' window is what you use to move patches and performances etc to and from your XV.
*** It is NOT a library or collection **** so you cannot save the data to your disk or USB stick from this window.
It goes XV->Main->Duplicate->Library->DIsk and back again Disk->Library window->Select CTRL_C->Main Select CTRL_V->XV
You can only move data to your XV and back again using the MAIN window. It is the only window that has 'Read' and 'Write' buttons.
So on my XV-3080 it can only have 128 Patches and 64 Performances (to swap between Patch and Performance, press the Mode buttons)

The second type of window (although it looks very similar to the 'Main' window without Read and Write buttons) is a Library window and can have any number (I think) of patches and performances.
These are your collections and can be saved to disk. So you need to create your first XV_Wind collection.
To start your collection off with Matt's Patches and Performances you loaded from the SMF, select the menu File /Duplicate and a new library window is created and filled with all of Matt's Performances and Patches.
'File / Save As' this window for your 'WindCollection.xvl' file.

To rearrange the Patches or Performances, you select one or many (use CTRL or SHIFT) from the Library window, then CTRL_C to copy to the clipboard and go to the Main window and select where to put them and press CTRL_V.
If you want to save all your Patch ordering work in the Main window, click File/Duplicate and save this new collection.

Now to get the sounds to the XV.
On the XV select Patch mode (Performance is a bit more complicated) and select Patch mode on the Main or Library window.
Double clicking on Patch names in either the Main or your Library window will send that Patch to the XV. Blow your EWI and you can hear what it sounds like.
Note that the Midi Patch data is only going to the synths edit buffer and if you turn it off before you save it on the XV then when you turn it back on it won't be there.

If you want to send all of Matt's Presets to non-volitile memory replacing what is there first....
Save the current data from your XV.. start in Perform mode and click 'Read All' this will request all the data and overwrite what's in the Main window (which OK because it is saved in your Library file).
Do the same thing for the 'Patch' and 'Rhythm' modes. Now File/Duplicate and 'File/Save As' and the complete data will be saved to disk. Now you can get this back at any time. Close that Library window.

Select Patch Mode.
Go to the Library window and select the 128 Patches (Ctrl_A selects All) and Paste them into the Main window starting at Patch 1, then click the 'Write' button.
All the 128 Patches will be sent to the XV and saved inside the synth.

Now that the Patches are in the XV, selecting Performance on the XV and the Library program will allow you to double click on a Performace in the Main or Library window and play your EWI to hear all the layered Performance sounds.
You can send and write the Performances the same as your Patches.

All the best
Royce

[mla]

Royce,
sorry for the delayed answer...
I greatly appreciate your time and ability to help.
Sure I saved your message.
I just setup one of good laptops with Windows XP :), for making work XV editor with the driver.
Everything is nicely set after some troubleshooting (setting up computers is not a big deal for me).
But I have no practice/knowledge with patches. As mentioned XV served me most for converting midi through it to mp3 some 15 years ago.
I am ready to buy Matt's files and will try to go through your step by step or by his unknown for me instructions. All he answered to my question that instructions are in download pack. Let's hope it will be clear for me.
So I will click Pay Now and hope that you'll be somewhere around in forum if I will have some questions.
Thanks again for "moral" :) support.
Michael.

[rcraven]

Hi Michael
Best of luck.
Let me know how you get on.

Royce

[mla]

Royce,
15 min ago got the zip from Matt. It contains clear steps for a setup.
Followed instructions... Everything went smoothly... Loaded .mid in Editor. Turned off 2 settings on XV.
All adjusted settings in EWI editor.
Kind of ready to play... But I don't know how to switch to loaded USER BANK. I hear XV own sounds.
In Roland Turbo Start file no word about using "personal" bank.
May be you can advice how to switch to user bank.
Probably in full user manual should be this point...
Going to sleep. I guess it's a nice day in Australia :).
I need to figure out how to navigate in XV... Probably the manual reading will help :)
But may be you can provide a "shortcut" to basic steps.
Thanks.

[rcraven]

Hi Michael,
There are 2 buttons with a label '< Bank >' use these to move to the USER bank where Matt's patches should be.
He includes a pdf with the Patch names so if you see the Patch names as you scroll with the VALUE knob you know that there are loaded into the XV5050.

If you can't hear anything when you push the preview (knob or the far left) it could be the fact that the patches need breath control to sound.

If the EWI doesn't make it sound then there could be two problems.
The first and most likely is that the Midi channels don't match.
Use the XV manual to show you how to set it for Midi channel 1 (page 19 and 20) in the full manual not the QuickStart)
Play the Ewi and if it doesn't sound set it to channel 1 (page 26 of the EWI manual)

Although unlikely, if it still doesn't sound then it could be that the EWI is not sending Breath Control CC messages but some other CC messages. This can be a bit confusing but have a look at page 16 of the EWI manual.

Let me know how you get on
Royce

[mla]

Royce, I really appreciate your friendly help... It works like a charm from the first shot.
Was in a harry, but could not stop checking... made up to 60...
US is user ... really don't have time for manual. But for my minimal needs of basic XV operation your HELP is really valuable.
Should Performances from Matt's bank be in the same US location, just or I have to switch somewhere else.

I quickly checked... after sound128(Brekord2) in US that is the last in Patches list. Next is PA:001 64voice Piano. That is not Matt's Performance name... So probably Performances should be under other thing - not PA. What is this UNKNOWN for me...
Thanks again.
Michael.

[mla]

Royce, suddenly came to my mind that performances should be under Perform :)
So just clicked it, used the bank and found US.
So Matt performances are there.

Tried few... not all perfectly responded and suddenly MIDI buffer full appeared on the display.
So switched to Patch and it is OK. How to deal with this buffer full message?
Thanks.

[rcraven]

Hi Michael
Usually a full MIDI buffer with an wind controller is that the breath offset and or gain is set 'just on the edge' and even when you are not blowing the EWI will put out a stream of notes and CC messages. You can use MidiOx to check and trim down the wind offset and perhaps the wind gain.

If setup is a mystery let me know and I can run through it with you.

Royce

[mla]

Royce,
MISTERY :)
I did initial setup/calibration of EWI by Bernzilla (Bernie) vid on youtube and it started to respond properly for me. All what is midi I got an advice from him. Then when by your advice I made work Matt's package I asked him for a recomendation of Breath in 5000 editor by sending him my setup, he suggested few things(see pic), now it's set by his recomendation.
The terms you mention I would like that you'll guide me. I saw this buffer message when switched to performance. I have a feeling that it will affect Patch mode too. Sure it could be a great thing if you can assist (may be even Skype session if you don't mind, but I think it is too much to ask :)).
Thanks.
Michael.

PS If you are interested and may be don't know about the forum Sax on WEB, I suggest to check it out.
Wonderful community of sax players all over the globe of all levels from bottom to TOP.
I am participating in TOTM (tune of the month) sub forum where people sharing there recordings.
Really worth to check.

[rcraven]

Hi Michael,
Lets start with your picture.
"Breath" Breath is sent in Midi by Continuous Controller Type 2 (or CC 2) and is the best CC for the EWI for various reasons.
"Resolution"
In your case these CC messages control the loudness (volume and brightness usually controlled together - depending how the patch is programmed) .
As you blow there is a continuous stream of Midi messages to match your breath.
The CC2 value is between 0 for off and 1 to 127 for the different loudnesses.
When you blow the steadiest you can to get that pure sound we all strive for with long note practice, the Midi values will change and if you are good they will go from 1 to 127 with every value in between.
That's 127 midi messages, but perhaps the synth or your ear won't be able to tell the difference between the CC 2 values of 100 and 101.
So if you only sent the odd numbered values you would cut the CC traffic in half. This means less Midi which is good, so you set it to Lo resolution.
Perhaps you are playing in a very narrow volume range and fineness of breath can be detected so you have no choice but to use all the Midi values, so then you would select hi resolution.

'Volume'
Breath can instead be sent in Midi by Continuous Controller Type 7 (or CC 7) which is the standard Volume control that nearly every thing responds to.
but if you change patch to a piano sound CC7 will work on the volume of that too.
This often leads to trouble when you start playing your keyboard and no sound comes out. When you stopped blowing the EWI set the volume to 0 (off) for everything.
So you should use CC2 instead of CC7 if that is possible. That is for breath control using CC7 is for emergency use only. 8 )

So perhaps your synth cannot respond to CC2 breath but it can respond to CC11 Expression you would use the (EP) section, but you are already OK with Breath (CC2)
(Your Roland synth responds to CC2, CC7 and CC11 as well as many others, but Matt's patches are programmed with CC2 in Mind)

Perhaps your synth doesn't respond to CC2 or CC7 or CC11 then you use the last box 'CC Send' and choose what CC type and set the range.
Akai are just making sure the EWI works on every synth.

Let us look at setting up the breath sensor on page 12 of the manual.

This show some knobs to adjust
Breath Primary:
sets the EWI5000's breath sensor offset (how much breath is required to start playing a sound).
This sets the lowest amount of air coming across the sensor needed to trigger a note.
Bernie does a trick where he makes this setting TOO low and sensitive.
Then he can play notes just by using his fingers and he uses the vocoder on his synth to continuously alter the sound.
This is NOT the normal setting.

I usually turn it till the synth start making a sound like Burnie's setting, and then turn it the other way until the sound stops. This is its most sensitive setting,
It should be the best setting, but if you have the mouthpiece in your mouth, your breathing can cause the EWI to send Midi messages so soft that you can't hear it but it takes up room in the Midi buffer. This can happen even if the EWI is in it's stand.
So it can be better to turn it till it stops making a sound and then a little further.

Breath Secondary:
sets the EWI5000's breath sensor's gain (how loudly or quietly you can play; a higher setting decreases the dynamic range).
This is the 'How easy is it to play a loud note? ' control.

Another reason for full buffer is Midi feedback into the synth. This is like a microphone too close to a speaker.
Check that you only have your EWI Midi cable going into the back of the synth and no other Midi or USB cable attached.
Switch to performance mode and see you get Midi Buffer full.

If that fixes the problem then either your Midi cables or your USB Midi setup is the problem.
Let me know.

All the best
Royce