Hi All
Just joined after a long stint at the Korg forums where the support for members was invaluable, I'm hoping it will be the same here. Had to get rid of my Korg PA2X Pro as I couldn't face carrying it anymore (sooo heavy) also the 2 + minutes boot up reminded too much of the early computer days of making a cup of coffee during boot up.
Anyhoo, after a lot of review reading and watching various demos I plumped for the Jupiter 50. Seems well put together, love the keypad and modifying sounds is a dream (I learnt from a Juno Gi that I had for a couple of months). I have spent hours reading the manual however and like all manuals a lot is left out assuming the user knows what the techies are thinking. I managed to stumble into a lot of answers but must admit to feeling a bit ignorant at times like I didn't realise it booted into the first registration (unlike the Gi) and I still feel a bit uncertain as to where some of the sound edits are going.
So for the first silly question, when I customized the Ac Piano and its layers I renamed and saved it in the first initialised location in the live set list 2322. Then I couldn't find it again as I couldn't see how to view the whole list numerically. I finally found it in the Upper Piano section list which showed it next to the last preset in the list 1537. I'm presuming this has something to do with the Jupiter recognising layer 1 being in the Piano category and shoved it there, but I can't see where you could choose the category to place it in (which you can do on the Gi) and it could lead to difficulties finding things. Am I missing something?
Secondly is there a shortcut to finding a particular tone (if you know its number) without turning the dial or holding down the increment button through over 2000 tones (on the Gi you have a number button which allows you to enter the tones number and jump directly to it)?
Lastly, I'm not given the option of assigning S1 and S2 buttons to turn layers on and off in the Upper Section (once again this option is on the Gi).
So, I hope someone can help with these questions and that they're not as stupid as I feel but no amount of reading is answering the questions.
I note there are not many of us with the Jupiter 50 yet but I can't see it'll be long before we're joined with others as even at this early stage it seems to have awesome potentional especially as Roland have now dropped the price.
Regards
Bruce
Short cut to entering sounds
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
Welcome to RC Bruce :)
I don't have -50 but I do have an -80 and they are very similar in structure/function.
Re categorisation - in the -80 when you are in a liveset, there should be a tab called 'Common'. Select that and you will be able to edit which category the sound belongs to. It doesn't change physical location of the sound only the reference.
The lack of a number pad means there is no quick way to 'dial in' a sound if you know the number. You have to scroll - tip; if you hold down shift whilst scrolling it scrolls by multiples of 10s so is a good bit quicker to get there.
Not sure about your third question - if you're in a liveset view you should be able to turn parts (tones) on and off. You can with the -80 anyway. Don't think you can assign the S-buttons to do that - but will be happily proved wrong!
Hopes this helps a little bit.
I don't have -50 but I do have an -80 and they are very similar in structure/function.
Re categorisation - in the -80 when you are in a liveset, there should be a tab called 'Common'. Select that and you will be able to edit which category the sound belongs to. It doesn't change physical location of the sound only the reference.
The lack of a number pad means there is no quick way to 'dial in' a sound if you know the number. You have to scroll - tip; if you hold down shift whilst scrolling it scrolls by multiples of 10s so is a good bit quicker to get there.
Not sure about your third question - if you're in a liveset view you should be able to turn parts (tones) on and off. You can with the -80 anyway. Don't think you can assign the S-buttons to do that - but will be happily proved wrong!
Hopes this helps a little bit.
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
Hi cello
Thanks for the welcome and your quick reply. Its very useful info you've given and it will speed up the number search and let me sort the category issue. I used the S1 and S2 function on the Gi when gigging to switch off 2 layers of strings under the piano layer in live performance. Maybe Roland decided with addition of a lower layer outside of the 4 part upper and enabling that to be switched off made the assignment of that function to S1 / S2 superfluous. I've no doubt I'll use the lower section on the Jupiter which I know I can just push a button to switch it off.
Anyway many thanks for your feedback, I look forward to seeing what else crops up on the forum.
Kind regards
Bruce
Thanks for the welcome and your quick reply. Its very useful info you've given and it will speed up the number search and let me sort the category issue. I used the S1 and S2 function on the Gi when gigging to switch off 2 layers of strings under the piano layer in live performance. Maybe Roland decided with addition of a lower layer outside of the 4 part upper and enabling that to be switched off made the assignment of that function to S1 / S2 superfluous. I've no doubt I'll use the lower section on the Jupiter which I know I can just push a button to switch it off.
Anyway many thanks for your feedback, I look forward to seeing what else crops up on the forum.
Kind regards
Bruce
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
Bruce
There are several work-arounds for your tone ON/OFF problem. If you still have the factory soundset loaded, power up the JP-50 and dial up CHAINSAW. I pick that one, as I know it uses all 4 tones in the UPPER LiveSet, otherwise, pick any LiveSet that uses all 4 tones. Once you have a LiveSet on screen, press the SHIFT key and note that the F5 Key is now labeled UPPER, so press F5 for the UPPER screen and note that it lists the 4 tones that make up the LiveSet. Again, press the SHIFT Key and note that F1 thru F4 are now the ON/OFF toggles for each of the tones, but you have to press SHIFT plus the correct F key, so it is a two handed, or at least a two fingered operation, as the SHIFT Key has to be held down while the correct F key is pressed. Each tone has a white "active" indicator in the list to show if it is ON or OFF. I tried it, and it can be done in real time with the index finger and pinkie of either hand, but it would take practice to build up the necessary accuracy and finger strength to get it right - first time every time. Also, you are really in an edit mode at this point, so you would need to take care not to press a wrong button and become hopelessly lost in the edit menu tree in the middle of a live performance. At least this gives you real time access to all 4 tones instead of just 2 like the Gi.
Your idea about using the LOWER will work, and you can use the SOLO as well. Just change the split points and octaves so you can spread them across the keyboard. When you get a set up you really like, save it as a registration so you don't have to go thru a lengthy set up each time you want it. Roland would suggest doing the whole thing with just registrations. That is, every time you wanted to turn a tone on or off, you would use a separate registration. That would work, but it is so wasteful of precious registrations.
The ultimate solution is an iPad with the JP-50 editor app. Its opening screen when you connect it to the JP-50 has a window at the upper right with 4 virtual buttons in it, one for each tone in the UPPER LiveSet. A simple touch of a button and the associated tone turns on or off. It is large enough that you won't hit more than one button at a time and it's there in real time for whatever LiveSet you dial up.
Good luck with this !
By the way, it does get a bit lonely over here from time to time, so you will usually find me hanging out over at the JP-80 Forum. I watch for whatever gems I can pick up that might apply to the 50 as well as the 80. They even let me put my two cents worth in once in a while. I also have a Gi, so I stop by there and the Di Forums occasionally to see if I can be of any help on anything. I hope you are right about things picking up over here eventually, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. I think what you see is it - rush hour at the JP-50 Forum. The 50 and 80 really don't seem to be selling too well. I fear that Roland may have bitten off more than the buying public was willing to chew on these things. The synth purists see them as ROMplers with the Jupiter name on them (not enough knobs, sliders, and raw tones) and the workstation crowd is very leery of anything that is only 3 part multi-timbral without a perfromance mode and doesn't even come with an onboard sequencer, so these things may just be a few years ahead of there time. BUT, that remains to be seen. We've got ours. We like them. So we'll just enjoy it while it lasts.
Be seeing you !
Regards,
Ted
There are several work-arounds for your tone ON/OFF problem. If you still have the factory soundset loaded, power up the JP-50 and dial up CHAINSAW. I pick that one, as I know it uses all 4 tones in the UPPER LiveSet, otherwise, pick any LiveSet that uses all 4 tones. Once you have a LiveSet on screen, press the SHIFT key and note that the F5 Key is now labeled UPPER, so press F5 for the UPPER screen and note that it lists the 4 tones that make up the LiveSet. Again, press the SHIFT Key and note that F1 thru F4 are now the ON/OFF toggles for each of the tones, but you have to press SHIFT plus the correct F key, so it is a two handed, or at least a two fingered operation, as the SHIFT Key has to be held down while the correct F key is pressed. Each tone has a white "active" indicator in the list to show if it is ON or OFF. I tried it, and it can be done in real time with the index finger and pinkie of either hand, but it would take practice to build up the necessary accuracy and finger strength to get it right - first time every time. Also, you are really in an edit mode at this point, so you would need to take care not to press a wrong button and become hopelessly lost in the edit menu tree in the middle of a live performance. At least this gives you real time access to all 4 tones instead of just 2 like the Gi.
Your idea about using the LOWER will work, and you can use the SOLO as well. Just change the split points and octaves so you can spread them across the keyboard. When you get a set up you really like, save it as a registration so you don't have to go thru a lengthy set up each time you want it. Roland would suggest doing the whole thing with just registrations. That is, every time you wanted to turn a tone on or off, you would use a separate registration. That would work, but it is so wasteful of precious registrations.
The ultimate solution is an iPad with the JP-50 editor app. Its opening screen when you connect it to the JP-50 has a window at the upper right with 4 virtual buttons in it, one for each tone in the UPPER LiveSet. A simple touch of a button and the associated tone turns on or off. It is large enough that you won't hit more than one button at a time and it's there in real time for whatever LiveSet you dial up.
Good luck with this !
By the way, it does get a bit lonely over here from time to time, so you will usually find me hanging out over at the JP-80 Forum. I watch for whatever gems I can pick up that might apply to the 50 as well as the 80. They even let me put my two cents worth in once in a while. I also have a Gi, so I stop by there and the Di Forums occasionally to see if I can be of any help on anything. I hope you are right about things picking up over here eventually, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. I think what you see is it - rush hour at the JP-50 Forum. The 50 and 80 really don't seem to be selling too well. I fear that Roland may have bitten off more than the buying public was willing to chew on these things. The synth purists see them as ROMplers with the Jupiter name on them (not enough knobs, sliders, and raw tones) and the workstation crowd is very leery of anything that is only 3 part multi-timbral without a perfromance mode and doesn't even come with an onboard sequencer, so these things may just be a few years ahead of there time. BUT, that remains to be seen. We've got ours. We like them. So we'll just enjoy it while it lasts.
Be seeing you !
Regards,
Ted
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
Hi Ted
Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I can see where you're going with the workaround for switching off layers and I'm very familiar with that screen now after a lot of programming with the Gi which has been invaluable in getting to grips with the 50. It's funny how the basic model the Gi has a couple of features (number entry option and layer off switch assignment) which make so life so much easier when programming and playing and the more sophisticated and expensive model doesn't.
I've got an iPad so that suggestion is worth a try although I'm not sure about taking it out on gigs (too portable).
You may be right about the take up of the 80 and 50. For my part I don't want to get down to sample mode or creating a tone from scratch, and I have enough to worry about when performing to think about too much slider and knob turning. I'm in a covers band so I'm just interested in trying to replicate the sounds on the original songs so as long as the database of tones is wide, plentiful and of good quality (and Roland's are) and the programming logical and flexible then I'm happy. For me the Korg PA2X Pro I had was too much of a workstation and I never used the accompaniment (and it did my back in). So the 50 ticks all the boxes.
We 50 owners may remain small in number but if we all contribute ideas and try to help each other it'll be a very worthwhile forum, and thus far I'm very encouraged by the response to my queries.
I'll also visit the 80 section to see what ideas etc apply to the 50.
Once again thanks for your input.
See you in the Forum
Regards
Bruce
Thanks very much for your detailed reply. I can see where you're going with the workaround for switching off layers and I'm very familiar with that screen now after a lot of programming with the Gi which has been invaluable in getting to grips with the 50. It's funny how the basic model the Gi has a couple of features (number entry option and layer off switch assignment) which make so life so much easier when programming and playing and the more sophisticated and expensive model doesn't.
I've got an iPad so that suggestion is worth a try although I'm not sure about taking it out on gigs (too portable).
You may be right about the take up of the 80 and 50. For my part I don't want to get down to sample mode or creating a tone from scratch, and I have enough to worry about when performing to think about too much slider and knob turning. I'm in a covers band so I'm just interested in trying to replicate the sounds on the original songs so as long as the database of tones is wide, plentiful and of good quality (and Roland's are) and the programming logical and flexible then I'm happy. For me the Korg PA2X Pro I had was too much of a workstation and I never used the accompaniment (and it did my back in). So the 50 ticks all the boxes.
We 50 owners may remain small in number but if we all contribute ideas and try to help each other it'll be a very worthwhile forum, and thus far I'm very encouraged by the response to my queries.
I'll also visit the 80 section to see what ideas etc apply to the 50.
Once again thanks for your input.
See you in the Forum
Regards
Bruce
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therealvicz
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 13:29, 25 March 2013
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
You can always set up consecutive registrations with the live set layer changes and flick quickly between them with the wheel or buttons. This has the advantage that the change wont take effect while keys are being pressed so you can get the timing exact. Or you can set up the two sounds as alternatives and switch between them with the Alternative button.
You can choose which registration the Jupiter boots into by editing the system parameters.
You can choose which registration the Jupiter boots into by editing the system parameters.
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
Hi therealvicz
Thanks for your reply. I'll try both your suggestions and I haven't really looked into the alternative button so I need to investigate the principle of that more. As I'm in a covers band I'm initially having to program in over 50 different setups and custom sounds so it's a bit time consuming. One thing I haven't really found yet is a decent brass band sound, they're pretty good on solo but not so brilliant on the multi instrument, either too feathery or too synthy. I don't know if anyone has any suggestions for sounds with a good strong brass sound. I'll probably find one eventually but with loads to look through it's always helpful to get other players suggestions. (It took over 2 hours to find the whistle sound used in Moves Like Jagger, and then I had to customise the tone, the Gi had 2 GM presets!).
The upside is the more I'm doing this the more I'm finding good things about the 50 and I'm sure it's going to suit my needs. I just need more hours in the day and hope I don't go brain dead in the meantime.
Once again thanks for your input. It's good to know the forum works.
Thanks for your reply. I'll try both your suggestions and I haven't really looked into the alternative button so I need to investigate the principle of that more. As I'm in a covers band I'm initially having to program in over 50 different setups and custom sounds so it's a bit time consuming. One thing I haven't really found yet is a decent brass band sound, they're pretty good on solo but not so brilliant on the multi instrument, either too feathery or too synthy. I don't know if anyone has any suggestions for sounds with a good strong brass sound. I'll probably find one eventually but with loads to look through it's always helpful to get other players suggestions. (It took over 2 hours to find the whistle sound used in Moves Like Jagger, and then I had to customise the tone, the Gi had 2 GM presets!).
The upside is the more I'm doing this the more I'm finding good things about the 50 and I'm sure it's going to suit my needs. I just need more hours in the day and hope I don't go brain dead in the meantime.
Once again thanks for your input. It's good to know the forum works.
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therealvicz
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 13:29, 25 March 2013
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
Yes it's a shame these forums aren't more popular. I do find browsing for a particular sound tedious sometimes. The JP50 is my first Roland apart from pianos, so I don't find it particularly helpful that so many of them are named after earlier synths 'JP-106 Strings' doesn't help me much! I found that a lot of the synth sounds can be dramatically improved by messing with the effects, especially by changing the effect orders, it looks like most of the sounds don't take advantage of the new change in this area in the v2 firmware.
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
Hi therealvicz
I tried setting the alternative button for a different set up but was obviously doing something wrong when it came to saving it as the original sound I had switched from disappeared. Is the alternative saved as a separate registration and linked by the alternative button or should it be saved somewhere in the registration I was using? I can't find anything in the manual to cover this apart from stating there is a button for it (welcome to the university of the bleeding obvious). It would certainly solve my problem if I can sus it.
I have heard one really good piano and pad sound that Gareth Bowen demonstrated on his interview with Sonic Lab in May last year. It's the 2nd uTube video down about 2 minutes in http://www.synthtopia.com/content/tag/r ... upiter-50/. I've tried loads of tweaks to the piano sound (1545) he's using and can't get close. I tried a sneaky ask over on the JP 80 forum but got no response :-(. I would love to get that one nailed. How long have you had your 50 by the way? I've had mine about 2 weeks now and am getting used to it plus the helpful hints in this forum.
What's the V2 firmware? I thought that referred to the JP 80.
I tried setting the alternative button for a different set up but was obviously doing something wrong when it came to saving it as the original sound I had switched from disappeared. Is the alternative saved as a separate registration and linked by the alternative button or should it be saved somewhere in the registration I was using? I can't find anything in the manual to cover this apart from stating there is a button for it (welcome to the university of the bleeding obvious). It would certainly solve my problem if I can sus it.
I have heard one really good piano and pad sound that Gareth Bowen demonstrated on his interview with Sonic Lab in May last year. It's the 2nd uTube video down about 2 minutes in http://www.synthtopia.com/content/tag/r ... upiter-50/. I've tried loads of tweaks to the piano sound (1545) he's using and can't get close. I tried a sneaky ask over on the JP 80 forum but got no response :-(. I would love to get that one nailed. How long have you had your 50 by the way? I've had mine about 2 weeks now and am getting used to it plus the helpful hints in this forum.
What's the V2 firmware? I thought that referred to the JP 80.
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
It did get a reply - from me!Bruceg wrote:I've tried loads of tweaks to the piano sound (1545) he's using and can't get close. I tried a sneaky ask over on the JP 80 forum but got no response :-(. I would love to get that one nailed.
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=45948&start=322
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
sorry cello. Looking in the wrong forum!
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therealvicz
- Posts: 12
- Joined: 13:29, 25 March 2013
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
HiBruceg wrote:Hi therealvicz
I tried setting the alternative button for a different set up but was obviously doing something wrong when it came to saving it as the original sound I had switched from disappeared. Is the alternative saved as a separate registration and linked by the alternative button or should it be saved somewhere in the registration I was using? I can't find anything in the manual to cover this apart from stating there is a button for it (welcome to the university of the bleeding obvious). It would certainly solve my problem if I can sus it.
I have heard one really good piano and pad sound that Gareth Bowen demonstrated on his interview with Sonic Lab in May last year. It's the 2nd uTube video down about 2 minutes in http://www.synthtopia.com/content/tag/r ... upiter-50/. I've tried loads of tweaks to the piano sound (1545) he's using and can't get close. I tried a sneaky ask over on the JP 80 forum but got no response :-(. I would love to get that one nailed. How long have you had your 50 by the way? I've had mine about 2 weeks now and am getting used to it plus the helpful hints in this forum.
What's the V2 firmware? I thought that referred to the JP 80.
P42 and 78 in the manual describe setting up what they call Alternate live sets, if I understand it correctly you set it up in the System settings, of course you need to write the settings after changing them or you will lose your changes on power off.
As I understand it all JP50s come with the v2 firmware, but most of the live sets still use the simple all parallel effects structure from JP80 v1. For example the organ sounds can be much improved by moving the Leslie sim to after the other effects.
I have had my JP50 for about 6 months but I don't do gigs these days just use it for messing about in my home studio. I part ex'd it for my Korg M3 since I do all my sequencing on my mac now, but sometimes I wish I'd coughed up the extra £1k for a JP80 just for the sake of it. IMHO good points: Sound quality , number and variety of sounds, key action, build quality, portability. Bad points: Oddball sound architecture, desperately needs a librarian, iPad app limited in what it can do, can't drive the percussion with the arps (so what use is it?) no easy control over arps, can't play midi files. Still, enjoy playing it and will be keeping it for a while.
Re: Short cut to entering sounds
Hi therealvicz
You're right about looking in systems for the alternative settings they're all in there and once you know that it's easy. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. :-)
You're right about looking in systems for the alternative settings they're all in there and once you know that it's easy. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. :-)