Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Forum for Integra 7
Chrisk-K
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by Chrisk-K »

epu wrote:Waste of money! Roland is keeping everyone proprietary. I'm so glad I stopped drinking the Roland Tang years ago.

That said I still have a soft spot for Roland. I wish they would wake up and make their boxes more integrated with MODERN TECHNOLOGY. Even at a High Price they would push far more units!

Why do some people insist on modern technology? Strats and Les Pauls made in the 50's sound better than modern ultra high tech guitars. As for synths, synths made before the birth of the MIDI sound better than ultra modern synths like the Kronos.
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Quinnx.
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by Quinnx. »

Why do some people insist on modern technology?
True...

Its probably something to do with insecurity..
People that just have to have the latest and greatest to feel ahead of the game..

Roland is starting to look very old now with all this repackaging of previous tech over the past few years..
I mean when you have bought a roland once you may have just bought the whole shop..
because everything that comes later is usually a dumbed down or repackaged item.
The Fantom G is key here, everything else is including the I7 is just revolving around it with a little extra.

With No PC or VST editor so far..
Its a no seller for me, i mean in this day with the sonic state vid comparing it to plugins..
how can it be without a universal editor/vst

Realy!??
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PauloF
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by PauloF »

Quinnx. wrote:
Why do some people insist on modern technology?
True...

Its probably something to do with insecurity..
People that just have to have the latest and greatest to feel ahead of the game..

Roland is starting to look very old now with all this repackaging of previous tech over the past few years..
I mean when you have bought a roland once you may have just bought the whole shop..
because everything that comes later is usually a dumbed down or repackaged item.
The Fantom G is key here, everything else is including the I7 is just revolving around it with a little extra.

With No PC or VST editor so far..
Its a no seller for me, i mean in this day with the sonic state vid comparing it to plugins..
how can it be without a universal editor/vst

Realy!??
Do you think that having the power of a JP-80/50 + the extra SN expansions + hundred of the acclaimed XV/Famtom PCM sounds, All SRX libraries, High Quality GM2 sounds, all on a 16 part multitimbral with dedicated MFX and up to 8 independent Outputs is " with a little extra"?
I don't!
This is like having the sonic power of a JP-80, a FantomX and a Fantom G all together...

I agree that a full Editor and VST would have been provided as standard too,
But that is not out of the reach yet...
Devnor
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by Devnor »

Ask Korg users how their editor is working out for them. Fractal Audio's editor has been in beta stage for years, never completed & doesn't fully support the flagship product. Roland ipad editor is nice but you can't edit registrations, FX, ect. This is what you get with freebie software...buggy, lack of support for all platforms & partially implemented feature set.

If editing modern synths on computer with a keyboard & mouse was such a great thing, wouldnt someone have come along with a real software editor or plug in? They used to develop those things for mac, PC and Atari.
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Quinnx.
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by Quinnx. »

Do you think that having the power of a JP-80/50 + the extra SN expansions + hundred of the acclaimed XV/Famtom PCM sounds, All SRX libraries, High Quality GM2 sounds, all on a 16 part multitimbral with dedicated MFX and up to 8 independent Outputs is " with a little extra"?
Compared to what has come before and what we already purchased..
Yes..

If your early in the game
then you going to get alot in one box.
f editing modern synths on computer with a keyboard & mouse was such a great thing, wouldnt someone have come along with a real software editor or plug in?
Your missing the point..
It helps integrate your external gear to your Computer DAW therefore giving you transparency and connectivity and fluidity. it also gives you a better visual of whats what rather than squinting at a tiny lcd.
rolandchamp
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by rolandchamp »

This issue is a big deal-breaker. In this day and age it's not acceptable IMO to require numerous extra ad/da (even inside the I7) and cabling when 1 usb cable should suffice.

But, I fear the issue is deeper than what it seems to be - likely the issue of soundcard drivers, and (on PC) the lack of technology to combine multiple sources of digital audio. In short, you can't traditionlly combine multiple audio devices.

However, I don't see any reason why this is not possible (and sample-accurate) by using a VI plugin to bridge that technology divide, and inject maximum channels of audio into a standardized DAW plugin format.

/cheers
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PauloF
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by PauloF »

Quinnx. wrote:
Do you think that having the power of a JP-80/50 + the extra SN expansions + hundred of the acclaimed XV/Famtom PCM sounds, All SRX libraries, High Quality GM2 sounds, all on a 16 part multitimbral with dedicated MFX and up to 8 independent Outputs is " with a little extra"?
Compared to what has come before and what we already purchased..
Yes..

If your early in the game
then you going to get alot in one box.
No I'm not early in the game (if 1972 is early in the game...), just was on the Guitar/Bass playing and Audio equipment Design and production before, and I never got enough money to buy Fantom G's nor JP-80's, but only a V-Synth XT and a Fantom Xa and a SonicCell (that unfortunately I had to sell the last two).
Quinnx. wrote:
f editing modern synths on computer with a keyboard & mouse was such a great thing, wouldnt someone have come along with a real software editor or plug in?
Your missing the point..
It helps integrate your external gear to your Computer DAW therefore giving you transparency and connectivity and fluidity. it also gives you a better visual of whats what rather than squinting at a tiny lcd.
This was not written by me.... but nevertheless I agree with the principle that a proper Editor in Standalone or VST format should be a must these days, but only for studio production IMHO, too clumsy and complicated for stage.
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SoundworldA.D.
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by SoundworldA.D. »

Why do some people insist on modern technology? As for synths, synths made before the birth of the MIDI sound better than ultra modern synths like the Kronos.
While I don't think it has anything to do with "insecurity", I think it has to do with a matter of the people who didn't grow up with modern technology versus those who do and some "human nature" thrown in for good measure! Here we have this plethora of available products at our disposal, both hardware and software, and yet there will always be those perfectionists who see the glass perpetually as "half-empty" and feel the need to vent their frustrations and point out the weaknesses or faults of anything and everything that doesn't live up to their perceived elevated standards.

I grew up with vacuum tubes for crying out loud! I am amazed at some of the sounds I have at my disposal, and how much better they sound than what I had just a few years ago! And I get a real kick at the modern folks who love the sound of the old gear so much and then complain when the new gear doesn't sound exactly like the old stuff! The irony of it just gives me a real chuckle.

And as far as the old synth's sounding "better" than the newer gear, i disagree that it is really a debatable point because the bottom line is what sounds good to one person will not necessarily sound the same to another. It becomes an issue of "personal choice" then. When I hear the sounds coming out of the LAC or MOD-7 on my OASYS, or out of my V-Synths, or the Vintage Synth ExP on the JD990 or Jupiter-80, the first thing that comes to my mind is not "does it sound exactly like the original that it's emulating", but "how does it sound". And in a mix if it sounds good than I am a happy camper. I stopped expecting perfection in this world of sin and sorrow a long time ago! And neither do I have the time to go find an antiquated piece of gear and hope it still works so I can have that "perfect analog sound" to be happy.

That said, I think everyone has made some valid points here and if Roland due to shortsightedness or lack of vision have made this product unworthy of some afficionados with respect to DAW use then I hope they will have the smarts to make it right. I want everyone to be happy with making sounds, because at the end of the day, that is what it is about with this thing called music. Once it stops being FUN, why bother? If the I-7 doesn't float your boat, no-one is going to hold a gun to your head to make you buy it or lose any sleep if you don't. Instead of whining and complaining, buy another product that does it for you and get on with life so we can make music with this thing.
I mean when you have bought a roland once you may have just bought the whole shop..
because everything that comes later is usually a dumbed down or repackaged item.
The Fantom G is key here, everything else is including the I7 is just revolving around it with a little extra.
As for the Integra being a dumbed down "repackage" of what's been available for years I have to disagree. Yes, while the SRX boards and XV-5080/Fantom waves are "old school", just having them available on this synth is an added bonus. Where the rubber really meets the road is in the latest BMT and SN technology, and that is definitely NOT old school. I can say that when I first heard the APS models on my GT, I was stunned because the realism was reaching a point where it was getting harder to distinguish the real intrument from the modeled instrument whereas in the old days it wasn't difficult at all! And all this for a few quid more than what we paid back in the 90's. I think I payed $1495 for my first JD-990, and that was for 24 voice polyphony and 6 part multitimbral! This thing packs quite a punch for what we're getting with it!
Strats and Les Pauls made in the 50's sound better than modern ultra high tech guitars.


Ah! That's a good one CK. Especially to me being a guitarist for so long. Remember the story of the Ibanez Tube Screamer? Technology being what it is, they replaced those old antiquated germanium diodes with the far superior and newer (and probably cheaper!) silicon ones and the players went "whaa!" The sound just wasn't the same and we all know what happened then to the price of the original "Tubers!"

Did the magnets get some "magical" quality over time? Or was it the hand winding or the age of the wire that gave those vintage instruments their special quality? Maybe it was the natural ageing if the wood. At any rate, tone is not always "just tone" and while I can still enjoy hearing Carlos or Al DiMeola playing through their newer PRS's these days, it just doesn't give me the same thrill as hearing a well-miked Telecaster on "Led Zep1" or SG on "Abraxas". Man...those tones still send chills up my spine!
Devnor
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by Devnor »

I agree with the principle that a proper Editor in Standalone or VST format should be a must these days, but only for studio production IMHO, too clumsy and complicated for stage.
Can we get a list of current synthesizers with a "proper" editor?
yet there will always be those perfectionists who see the glass perpetually as "half-empty" and feel the need to vent their frustrations and point out the weaknesses or faults of anything and everything that doesn't live up to their perceived elevated standards.
The tendency is many folks seem to hold Roland to some higher standard...is probably to fulfill their need to keep the glass "half empty". For example, take the Jupiter 50. No aftertouch and for most folks that was a "deal killer" yada yada. Here comes Korg Krome. Nobody complaining about lack of AT on that board infact I just got thru reading a thread where some imaginative users think it also contains a sampler & SSD drive. Where do they come up with this stuff?
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SoundworldA.D.
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by SoundworldA.D. »

The tendency is many folks seem to hold Roland to some higher standard...is probably to fulfill their need to keep the glass "half empty". For example, take the Jupiter 50. No aftertouch and for most folks that was a "deal killer" yada yada. Here comes Korg Krome. Nobody complaining about lack of AT on that board infact I just got thru reading a thread where some imaginative users think it also contains a sampler & SSD drive. Where do they come up with this stuff?
Devnor
Wishful thinking is the opium of the masses! I wasn’t aware that the JP-50 did not have AT but have to wonder why on the earth they would build a $2000 synth in 2012 without it. My D-70 had it and that was back in 1992! Same thing for the KROME...I know it is only a $1200 synth and packs quite a punch for that price but still! Gives us AT...we needs it precious!

I don’t mind the Korgers and bashers seeming to hold Roland to a higher standard. In fact I get quite a laugh at some of the over the top rhetoric and hyperbole that is spewed on some of the threads and I figure that they have their right to be heard, good or bad. What I didn’t appreciate on some of the threads about the Jupiter-80 was the viciousness and name calling that ensued. Calling Roland engineers and personnel “idiots and morons” is not only uncalled for and rude, but just goes to show how impolite and judgemental people can be when they have no one to answer to. And that doesn’t only happen on the Korg Forum. Allan recently had to close a thread on the Clan because of the same thing.

And that brings us to my comment about “human nature”. Technology has no doubt given us a lot to be happy about, but it also gives those with chips on their shoulders a way to vent their frustrations without having to suffer the “face to face” consequences. Another funny thing about all of the forums is that the old hypocrisy mantle falls on us all doesn’t it! I got a good laugh when a thread on the Korg Forums bashed Roland Clan for having the same blokes on all of the threads when it was the exact same thing over there! That was a good one!

Ah well...for me no matter who or what is happy or unhappy on these forums, life goes on and I salute each day as if it were my last, just happy to be alive and to get on with it!

I picked up the latest Keyboard magazine the other day because it piqued my interest with the “Keyboard Hall of Fame” cover. There of course was Bob, Dave Smith, Don Buchla and Marcus Ryle along with New Ager Suzanne Ciani and the ”theatritrician” of dreams Jordan Rudess.

All in all, great short stories on the bunch including a fitting tribute to the late Jon Lord. But a single story captured the gist of what we were talking about here...about how no matter how much they’re given some always seem to want more. And that’s just plain ol’ human nature ain’t it!

From Marcus Ryle:
“The HR-16 and MMT-8 were what really opened our eyes to how amazing it could be to bring technology to a price where you could really democratize music making. In 1983 dollars, the Oberheim System (DSX sequencer, DMX drum machine and OB-8 synth) cost over $10,000. In 1987, the HR-16 was about $399 and the MMT-8 was $299 and they were vastly more powerful.”


Isn’t it the most!!
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PauloF
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by PauloF »

Devnor wrote: Can we get a list of current synthesizers with a "proper" editor?
Should I say "decent" instead of "proper" then... Semantics ;-)

Kurz? Yamaha ? Roland (Fantoms, SonicCell, Junos) ? Are these not "decent"?
keysme
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by keysme »

It appears Roland's main priority may not be in pleasing customers but in making money. The Integra-7 sounds good in theory, but in reality, it has limited value and limited overall functionality in my opinion. I listened to the demos at Roland US and there are some nice orchestral and brass sounds but others hearken back to the 80's in terms of overall quality in my opinion. Others have mentioned the same thing i.e. "kind of cheesy" sounding in some cases. Roland's motto used to be: "We Design The Future" but as we can see Roland has a tendency to be stuck in the past and that's probably the reason they eliminated the motto from their marketing approach. I've stressed again and again that Roland should make it a point to go back to the laboratory in order to design and create "brand new" sounds for their brand new products. This is the 21st Century right? ;)

But Roland seems stuck in the past in terms of tired sounds being continually re-cycled... with lackluster results in many cases. Like I said, there are some nice sounds on the Integra-7 but you may have to wade through a bunch of them before you experience one of the better ones that can be used in a live setting perhaps. I hope I'm wrong about that. At $2,000 (plus additional money for an i-Pad and/or an Octa-Capture) and the fact that it has a minuscule display screen that requires it being placed right near the user for proper viewing and within arms reach of button pushing, you can understand why the Integra-7 will most likely serve only a limited segment of the market and will result in diminished overall sales for Roland and company as a result. A "niche" product with broken functionality... unless you purchase additional hardware. Roland probably calls it a brilliant marketing strategy but I call it an inconvenience that could potentially keep many people from purchasing one. Go figure.

The Surround sound recording limitation (2 channels only) is a deal breaker for many movie studio enthusiasts. Roland could have easily given the Integra-7 full surround recording functionality but obviously they want you to fork over even more money for an Octave-Capture (or some other device)... plus an i-Pad if you don't already have one. I wonder if Roland and Apple are in cahoots? ;)

It seems Roland's desire to increase their own bottom line could backfire on them too. I, for one, will pass on the Integra-7. But I will say if Roland puts the Integra-7 concept in a workstation keyboard (with a huge display screen) and gives it full surround recording functionality and a "brand new" sound-set - fit for a King - and the 21st Century - I'll be the first in line to purchase one. In 76 keys if you don't mind too. ;) Albeit, I'm really concerned that Roland may have decided to quit making workstation keyboards altogether. From now on we may be faced with "middle of the road" keyboards and/or niche modules with limited appeal?? Whoever is running Roland currently may want to consider "hanging up the keys" and thereby allowing certain young executives with VISION and OUTSIDE THE BOX THINKING to take over at the halls of Roland Japan. Nothing hinders the prosperity and/or viability of a company more, than executives stuck in the past who are mainly concerned about the "status-quo" and avoiding bankruptcy. Instead of reaching for the stars and increasing market viability like a company needs to do in order to survive and thrive in today's business environment.

Roland could regain the crown once again but being stuck in the past won't help them to achieve that goal needless to say. Maybe Roland has decided that being "number one" isn't their main objective anymore? It could have been replaced with: "bottom line profits above everything else", who knows? That, my friends, is a scary thought. Hopefully it's not true.

I want Roland to succeed and prosper but they really need to work on their customer skills and to start developing sounds and products suitable for the 21st Century. Rehashed sounds and limited (and in some cases broken) functionality (128 polyphony is soooo outdated also) along with other hindrances, could potentially keep Roland at the "back of the pack" eating other companies dust for years to come. That's another scary thought, but one that can be remedied by Roland (if they wake up) or by simply purchasing from a different company... who'll remain anonymous because everyone knows who they are. C'mon Roland!! WAKE UP!!!! PS: I'm not shouting. I'm using CAPS for emphasis. :) Have a great weekend everyone!

PS: If you like the Integra-7 then who am I to say otherwise! I'm simply giving you my own personal opinion. My 2¢ worth. Cheap advice can bring bountiful dividends though. If a company actually heeds them, that is. ;)
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scottrod
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by scottrod »

Yeah, they could have at least thrown on an 8-channel optical ADAT output to give people the option of staying in the digital domain.
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PauloF
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by PauloF »

scottrod wrote:Yeah, they could have at least thrown on an 8-channel optical ADAT output to give people the option of staying in the digital domain.
And technically that wouldn't be difficult at all, but as was said before, for Roland this is a Sound module and not a full music production unit, otherwise it would have included at least an 8 or even 16 channel Audio capture interface and a Full Editor that could be standalone and VST. That would be a real killer !!

However for those who already have DAWs and multi-channel Audio capture interfaces, it would be only a sound module anyway, and a very good one, in my perspective only missing a decent (not proper... ;-)) Editor, so it can be remotely controlled, not needing to be in the musician's reach.
knolan
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Re: Integra-7 USB Audio - Stereo only?

Post by knolan »

I'm sorry PauloF, it is not just a sound module. With motional surround, ability to set up 16 programs on 16 midi channels, 8 analogue outputs, and such a vast array of sound engines / sources - and their blurb promoting TV / Film applications - then Roland view this module, in part, as integrating into modern DAW production setups.

I'll say it again - it is naivety on Roland's part not to offer multi-channel USB connectivity to a DAW environment. They have done all the work, except offer the last crucial step, and I for one cannot comprehend their thinking. They have demonstrated similar poor practice before, for example by forcing R-Bus and V-Link upon their customer base needlessly for years, or by offering only primitive use of USB stick storage for the V-Synth GT and GAIA.

They go and do all the difficult (and fabulous) innovation, and then frustrate their user base by severely limiting the use of that innovative technology in real world scenarios. Media composers will not be inclined to buy this product if they cannot treat different parts in a mix separately or record surround to 6 DAW tracks. Stereo is insufficient.

Kevin
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