Hello experts,
I am trying to imitate this famouse "Dubstep Wobble Bass" sound with the INTEGRA-7. Somebody who is an expert to VST plugins told me, that such sound is created by "putting the LFO onto the frequency of a resonant Low-Pass-Filter". And that some distortion could be added behind it.
I don't realy know how to map this with the sysex-parameters of INTEGRA-7's super natural synth tones. Meanwhile I have played around so much, I don't even know if the result has anything to do with the dubstep sound ;-) But I think it is not the real sound.
Does anybody know how to set the parameters that a real dupstep bass-sound is produced?
Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
The typical (and the really wacky ones too) wobble bass sound is totally doable on the Integra, as it is on many other synths.
Do you have the iPad editor? That will make the process very visual for your synth editing if you are not familiar with the parameters.
I'll walk you through creating a simple wobble bass from scratch on the Integra's front panel here:
1. Press the SuperNATURAL button
2. Use the Right Arrow to navigate to the SN Synth USER section
3. Select an empty patch, labeled as "INIT TONE"
4. Press EDIT
5. In the OSC section, make sure the box next to 1 is checked. For this exercise, everything we do will be under box 1 (Oscillator number 1), Don't use Oscillators 2 or 3 right now.
6. On Wave, select SQR
7. In the PITCH section, set the pitch to -12
8. In the FILTER section, Set the Filter Mode to LPF1, and the Cutoff to 75
9. In the LFO section set the LFO Shape to Sin, the LFO rate to 90 and the LFO FILTER Depth to +55
10. Save the Patch with a cool name and have fun with it!
You can program much more complex wobble basses, but this is a good starting point. Try it with different waveforms or combinations of waveforms, detune the waves, add effects, or change the LFO rate. Lots of the heavier dubstep uses robotic talking sounds, which can be accomplished on the Integra by selecting the PCM VOX and Digi waveforms and applying the Humanizer effect. There are actually a lot of great features in the Integra for Dubstep sounds.
Do you have the iPad editor? That will make the process very visual for your synth editing if you are not familiar with the parameters.
I'll walk you through creating a simple wobble bass from scratch on the Integra's front panel here:
1. Press the SuperNATURAL button
2. Use the Right Arrow to navigate to the SN Synth USER section
3. Select an empty patch, labeled as "INIT TONE"
4. Press EDIT
5. In the OSC section, make sure the box next to 1 is checked. For this exercise, everything we do will be under box 1 (Oscillator number 1), Don't use Oscillators 2 or 3 right now.
6. On Wave, select SQR
7. In the PITCH section, set the pitch to -12
8. In the FILTER section, Set the Filter Mode to LPF1, and the Cutoff to 75
9. In the LFO section set the LFO Shape to Sin, the LFO rate to 90 and the LFO FILTER Depth to +55
10. Save the Patch with a cool name and have fun with it!
You can program much more complex wobble basses, but this is a good starting point. Try it with different waveforms or combinations of waveforms, detune the waves, add effects, or change the LFO rate. Lots of the heavier dubstep uses robotic talking sounds, which can be accomplished on the Integra by selecting the PCM VOX and Digi waveforms and applying the Humanizer effect. There are actually a lot of great features in the Integra for Dubstep sounds.
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Monkey Man
- Posts: 287
- Joined: 01:37, 1 July 2013
- Location: Australia
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Good answer, Macska.
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Hello Macska,
thank you very much for your walk thru. Realy lovely! I have entered your steps as sysex events and sent it to the integra. Yes - very close to what I am looking for! By figuring out how your example works, I even noticed that I probably have switched off the original wave of my selected bass sound (MG Bs1), by selecting the OSC Wave. I wasn't aware of it.
A subsequent question for understanding the synth OSC better:
How can I make this OSC sound like one of the Samples of the INTEGRA-7 instead of SQR? (You told about these VOX Sounds). How can I lay this Filter-LFO onto an Original-Wave-Form (maybe a sample Moog-Synthbass)? I have tried to select these "Phrase Number" in Category "Common" to Piano and so on, but it has no consequence.
thank you very much for your walk thru. Realy lovely! I have entered your steps as sysex events and sent it to the integra. Yes - very close to what I am looking for! By figuring out how your example works, I even noticed that I probably have switched off the original wave of my selected bass sound (MG Bs1), by selecting the OSC Wave. I wasn't aware of it.
A subsequent question for understanding the synth OSC better:
How can I make this OSC sound like one of the Samples of the INTEGRA-7 instead of SQR? (You told about these VOX Sounds). How can I lay this Filter-LFO onto an Original-Wave-Form (maybe a sample Moog-Synthbass)? I have tried to select these "Phrase Number" in Category "Common" to Piano and so on, but it has no consequence.
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Just out of curiosity, why do you use sysex events rather than an editor or the front panel? I feel like that would make the process a little less rememberable you know? Different workflows for different musicians I suppose!
The most important part of the process, the one that creates the wobble, is by setting an LFO to the Filter Cutoff depth. How you do this is slightly different on every synthesizer, including the different synthesizers in the integra (SN and PCM). The PCM one has more options, but when you edit the LFO on those you want to alter the "TVF Depth" to get the sound. Keep this in mind when you make more sounds.
In answer to you question about using different tones-
Unfortunately you can't use an LFO on the Supernatural acoustic tones, which is what I am guessing you were trying to do when you switched the phrase number to piano. If you want acoustic sounding instruments as your waveform you will need to use the PCM synth and select the sounds under "Edit - Wave" and then change the LFO's TVF depth. You can also use any of the many other PCM tones here as well, including many synth waveforms.
To change the waveform in the SN Synth, simply change the Wave in the OSC section when editing. If you highlight the wave you currently have (where we selected SQR in my tutorial) and press enter, you will see your waveform options. Selecting "PCM" gives you access to many more waveforms to choose from under "Wave Number" in the OSC section. This is where you will find the sounds I referred to before.
Lastly, remember to edit the LFO of EACH oscillator you want to wobble the filter on. I remember when I was newer to synthesis I sometimes forgot to do that and it caused me some confusion. So if you select a Moog Bass patch you like and want it to wobble, just edit the LFO for each active Oscillator like we did when we made our original dubstep square bass earlier.
I really think you will benefit from working with the front panel on the unit right now. To me it sounds like you will understand the parameters better with the visual display (though it sounds like you have an impressive knowledge of sysex!)
Even better yet for practice, it can be helpful to learn how to program some basic patches on a more simple, visual synth. The integra is really only visual when working with the iPad app, otherwise I wouldn't recommend as something to learn about the different parameters on (learn on another synth and then apply it to the integra for those sweet sounds!) of course, I don't know your experience with synthesizers so I don't mean to assume anything.
I learned how to make basic dubstep sounds on a free VST called Wollo Drone and then after every session would try to recreate the sounds in my integra to learn the interface. But really with the iPad editor you will see how much easier it is than it sounds!
PS Monkeyman- when you get that second integral can we expect to hear some gigantic growling 32 part, 96 oscillator growling basses and wall melting pads? Lol
Haha did I say "dubstep, wobble, and LFO" enough for one post? XP
The most important part of the process, the one that creates the wobble, is by setting an LFO to the Filter Cutoff depth. How you do this is slightly different on every synthesizer, including the different synthesizers in the integra (SN and PCM). The PCM one has more options, but when you edit the LFO on those you want to alter the "TVF Depth" to get the sound. Keep this in mind when you make more sounds.
In answer to you question about using different tones-
Unfortunately you can't use an LFO on the Supernatural acoustic tones, which is what I am guessing you were trying to do when you switched the phrase number to piano. If you want acoustic sounding instruments as your waveform you will need to use the PCM synth and select the sounds under "Edit - Wave" and then change the LFO's TVF depth. You can also use any of the many other PCM tones here as well, including many synth waveforms.
To change the waveform in the SN Synth, simply change the Wave in the OSC section when editing. If you highlight the wave you currently have (where we selected SQR in my tutorial) and press enter, you will see your waveform options. Selecting "PCM" gives you access to many more waveforms to choose from under "Wave Number" in the OSC section. This is where you will find the sounds I referred to before.
Lastly, remember to edit the LFO of EACH oscillator you want to wobble the filter on. I remember when I was newer to synthesis I sometimes forgot to do that and it caused me some confusion. So if you select a Moog Bass patch you like and want it to wobble, just edit the LFO for each active Oscillator like we did when we made our original dubstep square bass earlier.
I really think you will benefit from working with the front panel on the unit right now. To me it sounds like you will understand the parameters better with the visual display (though it sounds like you have an impressive knowledge of sysex!)
Even better yet for practice, it can be helpful to learn how to program some basic patches on a more simple, visual synth. The integra is really only visual when working with the iPad app, otherwise I wouldn't recommend as something to learn about the different parameters on (learn on another synth and then apply it to the integra for those sweet sounds!) of course, I don't know your experience with synthesizers so I don't mean to assume anything.
I learned how to make basic dubstep sounds on a free VST called Wollo Drone and then after every session would try to recreate the sounds in my integra to learn the interface. But really with the iPad editor you will see how much easier it is than it sounds!
PS Monkeyman- when you get that second integral can we expect to hear some gigantic growling 32 part, 96 oscillator growling basses and wall melting pads? Lol
Haha did I say "dubstep, wobble, and LFO" enough for one post? XP
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Hi again Macska,
thank you for the extensive answer, I started playing with it, immediately.
First about why I am using system exclusive messages and a sequencer:
certainly I also used INTEGRA-7's display to find out how parameters are arranged. When I think
that parameters are worth to be stored I am creating a small MIDI sequence where I first select the original patch I have used (with Bank MSB, LSB and program) and additional system excusive messages, which contain the parameters I've altered. I am not only storing it local in free user patche because if I change this user patch someday, my changes are lost. Or if I want to use them on another integra-7, I have to export them anyhow. And with a MIDI sequence I just have them in my pocket ;-) How do you export your modified sound-parameters? Are you doing a bulk-dump? I am always susceptible for new shortcuts!
Back to the ddd uuu bbb sss ttt ep:
Ok, I understood. I moved to the PCM Synth tones and selected a patch which sounds like a sample: 0300: Symphonique (Tone Category Strings and Phrase number 220:XY/Orchestra). And you are right: I've found the LFO-tabs. But when I edit the TVF Depth to +60 (maybe on all 4 partials), I don't hear a wobble. Even if the respective partial's filter type is LPF and play around with the LFO-Rate. Is it possible that I can't do a wobble to such PCM sound? I don't want to be outrageous, your explanation of doing the dubstep sound with SuperNATURAL synth was fine enough.
thank you for the extensive answer, I started playing with it, immediately.
First about why I am using system exclusive messages and a sequencer:
certainly I also used INTEGRA-7's display to find out how parameters are arranged. When I think
that parameters are worth to be stored I am creating a small MIDI sequence where I first select the original patch I have used (with Bank MSB, LSB and program) and additional system excusive messages, which contain the parameters I've altered. I am not only storing it local in free user patche because if I change this user patch someday, my changes are lost. Or if I want to use them on another integra-7, I have to export them anyhow. And with a MIDI sequence I just have them in my pocket ;-) How do you export your modified sound-parameters? Are you doing a bulk-dump? I am always susceptible for new shortcuts!
Back to the ddd uuu bbb sss ttt ep:
Ok, I understood. I moved to the PCM Synth tones and selected a patch which sounds like a sample: 0300: Symphonique (Tone Category Strings and Phrase number 220:XY/Orchestra). And you are right: I've found the LFO-tabs. But when I edit the TVF Depth to +60 (maybe on all 4 partials), I don't hear a wobble. Even if the respective partial's filter type is LPF and play around with the LFO-Rate. Is it possible that I can't do a wobble to such PCM sound? I don't want to be outrageous, your explanation of doing the dubstep sound with SuperNATURAL synth was fine enough.
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Oh that makes since then! I use the Windows Editor in Sonar similarly, in that I never save studio sets I create in projects because the sonar project saves the parameters. I never thought to actually back up individual patches like that, good idea!
I figured out what's wrong with the pcm tones not wobbling, and i can't believe I forgot to mention it! If the TVF (edit-TVF) cutoff frequency is all the way up at 127, the LFO will have no effect. So be sure to apply a Low Pass Filter (LPF) to every waveform you want to wobble and adjust the cutoff where you want the sound to start before the LFO alters it. Doing so I was able to add a wobble to the same symphonique patch just now.
I figured out what's wrong with the pcm tones not wobbling, and i can't believe I forgot to mention it! If the TVF (edit-TVF) cutoff frequency is all the way up at 127, the LFO will have no effect. So be sure to apply a Low Pass Filter (LPF) to every waveform you want to wobble and adjust the cutoff where you want the sound to start before the LFO alters it. Doing so I was able to add a wobble to the same symphonique patch just now.
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Ok, now it works!
I think to try it with the Symphonique patch was the worst patch I could find ;-)
With different samples in different keyranges and OSC's. Also, some Cutoff-Sens-Settings also
made sure that I didn't hear something wobbling. But now after especially setting the cuttoff to something else than 127 I could hear it.
Thank you very much! Now I can start dubstepping.
I think to try it with the Symphonique patch was the worst patch I could find ;-)
With different samples in different keyranges and OSC's. Also, some Cutoff-Sens-Settings also
made sure that I didn't hear something wobbling. But now after especially setting the cuttoff to something else than 127 I could hear it.
Thank you very much! Now I can start dubstepping.
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Monkey Man
- Posts: 287
- Joined: 01:37, 1 July 2013
- Location: Australia
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
To be sure. LOLMacska wrote:PS Monkeyman- when you get that second integral can we expect to hear some gigantic growling 32 part, 96 oscillator growling basses and wall melting pads? Lol
Fear not; you fulfilled your quote quota.Macska wrote:did I say "dubstep, wobble, and LFO" enough for one post? XP
I could see the TVF-depth thing coming a mile off. Been there, done that 30 years ago. Glad you picked it up else I'd have had to call the Filter Corrections Office™ in to monitor the forum. We can't have that sort of Tomfoolery spreadin' in these-here parts. I mean, where would it end? With a flat pad? A series of TVA-shaped blips? Certainly not a wobble 'cause everyone would've forgotten about TVF depth.
There you go. Proof of the true value of your excellent work, Macska!
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Inside an INTEGRA-7 forum: isn't it allowed to ask if and how a modern anywhere hearable sound can be produced with the INTEGRA-7? Be glad you could manage it.Monkey Man wrote:Tomfoolery
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Monkey Man
- Posts: 287
- Joined: 01:37, 1 July 2013
- Location: Australia
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Wow. You might want to re-read my post, Mr.Epyx.
In case you somehow miss it again, I attempted to creatively describe a ridiculous scenario where, were it not for Macska's excellent work in "explaining" TVF depth to us all, the forum would find itself in the absurd situation of having to use amp-envelope shaping alone to, well, shape sounds.
In case you missed it too, the Filter Corrections Office™ does not exist; I thought the irony / sarcasm / obviously-pathetic attempt at levity was plain for all to see, and had hoped, perhaps naively, to raise a smile in these here parts.
I'm so sorry you missed it. I'm also very glad you managed to achieve what you were after. IMHO, it's a win-win situation... except perhaps for the failure of my attempt at humour.
In case you somehow miss it again, I attempted to creatively describe a ridiculous scenario where, were it not for Macska's excellent work in "explaining" TVF depth to us all, the forum would find itself in the absurd situation of having to use amp-envelope shaping alone to, well, shape sounds.
In case you missed it too, the Filter Corrections Office™ does not exist; I thought the irony / sarcasm / obviously-pathetic attempt at levity was plain for all to see, and had hoped, perhaps naively, to raise a smile in these here parts.
I'm so sorry you missed it. I'm also very glad you managed to achieve what you were after. IMHO, it's a win-win situation... except perhaps for the failure of my attempt at humour.
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
No hard feelings, sorry for my paranoia...
By the way
"how to create the original acute C64-Sound with an INTEGRA-7" would be my most desired forum topic here ;-) Which of course sometimes can be recognized as a sub-element in dubstep. How can I expect to be taken seriously...
By the way
"how to create the original acute C64-Sound with an INTEGRA-7" would be my most desired forum topic here ;-) Which of course sometimes can be recognized as a sub-element in dubstep. How can I expect to be taken seriously...
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Monkey Man
- Posts: 287
- Joined: 01:37, 1 July 2013
- Location: Australia
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Ha! Don't worry; you'll be taken seriously. No sound-design question is a silly one, after all, IMHO.
Are you referring to the Commodore 64? If so, I remember those days well. I used to programme simple games on the ATARI 400 (the one with the touch-pad keyboard) during the early '80s, and although I loved my ATARI, I always had gear-envy for the Commodore, mainly 'cause it had a proper key pad.
If this sounded alien to you, either sample it and slap it in a song or disregard it, bro'. LOL
Are you referring to the Commodore 64? If so, I remember those days well. I used to programme simple games on the ATARI 400 (the one with the touch-pad keyboard) during the early '80s, and although I loved my ATARI, I always had gear-envy for the Commodore, mainly 'cause it had a proper key pad.
If this sounded alien to you, either sample it and slap it in a song or disregard it, bro'. LOL
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
Yikes! I'm pretty sure the FCO sent someone from the Low Pass Branch knocking on my door when I ran that multi-sampled Mammoth Herd Trumpeting through an emulated TB 303 filter. That or it was some angry neighbors...Monkey Man wrote: Glad you picked it up else I'd have had to call the Filter Corrections Office™ in to monitor the forum. We can't have that sort of Tomfoolery spreadin' in these-here parts. I mean, where would it end?
lol. Anyways, happy synthesizing to you guys tonight.
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Monkey Man
- Posts: 287
- Joined: 01:37, 1 July 2013
- Location: Australia
Re: Dubstep Wobble Bass with INTEGRA-7
LOLMacska wrote:multi-sampled Mammoth Herd Trumpeting through an emulated TB 303 filter...Monkey Man wrote: Glad you picked it up else I'd have had to call the Filter Corrections Office™ in to monitor the forum. We can't have that sort of Tomfoolery spreadin' in these-here parts. I mean, where would it end?