Contemplating between Integra 7 and a fully expanded XV 5080

[blu3planet]

I'm contemplating between buying a 2nd hand Integra 7, or a fully expanded (with 8 expansions - 4 SRX and 4 SRJV, I currently don't know which ones).

The thing that bothers me the most is after watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5jK9vIKORU

The Integra 7 doesn't even slightly resembles most of the D50 it emulates in this video VS the real thing.

How are the XV 5080 sounds compared to the real thing? I didn't find any real comparison.

I know that I7 gives me also the SuperNatural sounds which look pretty exciting, but I'm really after the Roland historic sounds.

If all the XV sounds on the I7 sounds good and legit, it would be a better purchase for me. but if it sounds like in the video above, I'm not so sure..
I also hear that the I7 SuperNatural sounds are not as good as described?



The prices for 2nd hand here for me will be 750$ for the fully expanded XV, and ~1200 for the I7.

The I7 will also give me probably a better editor on Windows, USB capabilities etc.

I've no way to test any of the units myself.
What do you think?

[lol]

If it's the D-50 you're after, then buy a D-50 or a D-550, not an XV nor an Integra-7.. The D-50 is a unique synth, nothing compares really, but it's a real PITA to program, it's monotimbral or at best it's polyphony is very limited even if you install the MusiTronics expansion board, and it's noisy, and even noisier than that for a good two third of the older production series. And btw, these sounds from the video are those you don't want to make use at all in the D-50, there are very very outdated and the D-50 is capable of so much more than that! For instance watch this http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQtxFpxkY7M

The Integra-7 is the modern version of the XV, there's no point in choosing the older one other than price. Your call on that.

[blu3planet]

Thanks!

but, that wasn't my question.

I'm not after the D50.

I'm just asking - judging on that D50 comparison video, and no direct comparison videos between the XV 5080 and the Integra 7, how is the XV 5080 sound set on the Integra 7? Is it authentic / good quality reproduction? that is, good enough to ditch an XV 5080 for?

[lol]

I can't answer exactly but the ROM of the XV is in there so it's not a reproduction but the same material that is available. After that it's been pointed out already due to the structure of the multiFX which differs from one to another, the patch don't sound the same out of the box, and it's certainly possible to make them sound identical with adjustments.

But you don't seem to realize the main part of the Integra-7 is the Supernatural sounds, these are new, acoustic (from the Jupiter 80 and more), drums (from the TD-30 flagship edrum module), and from the Supernatural virtual analog engine. D-50 and other recreations come from this VA synth. It's very accurate on analog synths but the D-50 has another kind of synthesis which require a D-50. This VA engine supports plenty of modeled waveforms as well as hundreds of digital waveforms to build oscillators sources from. In the case of the D-50 the challenge was to find digital waveforms to match the original samples, and if it works well for basic sample based D-50 patches, the interpretation is harder to get on patches using more of the synthesis of the D-50, and some patches and characteristic sounds of the D-50 will not be in reach of the Integra-7 (or any other synth except V-Synth emulation card) because it's too complex to emulate.

Analog synths are easier to recreate within the VA as they have more simple oscillators, and if it's not yet the Boutique series in the Integra-7, it's something in this line of work.

The other older part of the Integra-7 then comprises the XV engine with 4 oscillators per part, which are build from the XV waveforms ROM. On top of that, you have all 12 commercial SRX cards to load (up to 4 at the same time) This part is the XV entirely if you will, with a more powerful and less supple multiFX section as you have 1MFX/part on the Integra + common reverb + common chorus/delay. MFX can combine 2 or more effects like e.g. flanger+amp sim+cab sim.

But really you cannot subsume the Integra-7 to the XV it contains as well, I would say this like the attic of the house, it's where you find things you need and couldn't store downstairs, the main habitat of the Integra-7 is the SN engine, and it's not pale! Acoustic sounds are just stunning (there are expansion cards to load some more of them as well), with lots of hidden beauties in the details when you start editing parts parameters in conjunction with tone parameters and the complex behavior scripts (think of it as complex scripts in Kontakt). Drums are at the finest of synthesis, you'd need heavy samples VSTi to get to another league really, and the VA does about everything you need it to, your imagination is the limit here. If that's not enough, here kicks in the XV and its precious SRX cards where you find gems such as (maybe you remember this one) electric basses from the Akai sample cd by Eric Persing, or any other sample you might need.

I'm afraid in comparison, the XV is an older rompler, the Integra-7 is an unmatched acoustic, drums and VA synth, and a rompler as well.

I wouldn't bother with an XV alone if I were you, I believe the Integra-7 will remain sharply accuracy for much longer than a XV now. I would keep a Korg Triton, A Yamaha Motif XS, but I would not keep an XV or a Phantom if I could get an Integra-7. If you can maybe, check it out for yourself, buy both and resell the one you prefer least.

[blu3planet]

The information you gave me in your last post is priceless. Thank you for that. It made me seriously watch demos of the Integra 7 on youtube yesterday and it indeed sounds incredible! Obviously it's the unit to get. The bang for the buck here is unbelievable. I was particularly impressed with the Pianos and Drums.

and only out of interest, how is the XV 5080 rom set reproduction? is it faithful? sounds good? it's odd, but the unit is out for almost 3 years and yet there's not a single video of comparison on youtube.

[lol]

and only out of interest, how is the XV 5080 rom set reproduction? is it faithful? sounds good?

I wouldn't worry about that, when you have a cd, no matter what cd player you paly it in, it's the content that matters, and we're talking here about canned sounds anyway...

[bluesplayer]

what lol said.

I have both (XV-5080 -fully loaded) and Integra 7 (and Fantom XR also fully loaded)

I can do blind A-B XV-5080 factory presets testing with the same I7 XV sounds all day and there is NO, zero, zip, zilch, nadda difference in sound content.

Unless you need to, or want to do some sampling, or have an old SCSI CD player or SCSI Zip drive, and old libs you want to load up (like I do) - go with the I7.

At Initial release with no Windows full-up I7 editor I WOULD NOT have suggested that (but now you have two WORKING editors - one form k-take and one from Roland) .

I LOVE my XV-5080 (A LOT more than my XR) but if I had to choose ONE I'd go I7 at this point. Only thing I'd truly miss is maybe, maybe, a half dozen to a dozen SR-JV sounds TOTAL for cards that didn't make it to SRX or FULLY make it to SRX.

Larry

[blu3planet]

Thank you very much for the information Larry. Very reassuring! I put the order on a new I7. Can't wait to take it home!

btw, you sounded like Roger Wilco there for a moment. do you know what I'm talking about? :)

[AllenStoker]

I just made the jump and I can fully recommend you do the same.

I use a variety of synths mostly in performance mode, but also trying to move into more MIDI scoring. I use Taurus pedals as my primary as I am also a bass player, and I have a DSI Prophet 12 which recently replaced an RS-5. When I got the new Taurus pedals I found a bargain on a JV-1080 and through the years acquired several of them and an assortment of SR-JV cards. About 6 months ago I picked up a couple of XV-5080s (what a monster synth!!) and it was nice that I was able to migrate the sysex from the 1080, it added some nice built-in sounds and held my coveted SR-JV cards. I was also very interested in more compatibility with my computer and the XV-5080 has a nice librarian and editor. I was starting to look for some of the SRX cards to add to the sound but also kept thinking about the Integra.

I found a demo at Sweetwater for 1349 and grabbed it because I feared that I would have to keep spending on more SRX cards, and in reality most of the expansions have great sounds, but I would only use a few tones from any one card. The math of getting an upgraded unit and ALL of the SRX cards at once was too much to resist (they also had 36mo. @ 0%).

It took me a few weeks to work the system into my rig, and last night I used it in a full rehearsal and I will never regret my decision! As lol pointed out, you should be thinking more about the SuperNatural sounds ... they are amazing! I tend to use string and choir a lot and the SN patches are incredible. Having bought and sold many legacy Roland units and cards, you have to think about what fully loaded really means. You certainly can't find a 5080 with all 12 SRX cards included and you may find yourself adding more later and end up spending as much anyway.

As a computer professional, I am also very please with having a USB for computer integration, I just wish Roland's editor wasn't complete crap! (look for Take's editor in this forum if you make the jump).

The 5080 for me was an upgraded 1080+++, but the Integra is more like a brand new platform with the "best of 5080 collection" included. I had to change much more to my setup bringing in the Integra then I did when I introduced the 5080, but the palette on the Integra is so diverse that while I started trying to reproduce the 5080 on my new Integra, I found myself instead finding newer and better tones to use and really expanding my overall sound.

And it can't be stated too much that the SuperNatural sounds (acoustic, synth and drums) are amazing.

[PauloF]

I just made the jump and I can fully recommend you do the same.

I use a variety of synths mostly in performance mode, but also trying to move into more MIDI scoring. I use Taurus pedals as my primary as I am also a bass player, and I have a DSI Prophet 12 which recently replaced an RS-5. When I got the new Taurus pedals I found a bargain on a JV-1080 and through the years acquired several of them and an assortment of SR-JV cards. About 6 months ago I picked up a couple of XV-5080s (what a monster synth!!) and it was nice that I was able to migrate the sysex from the 1080, it added some nice built-in sounds and held my coveted SR-JV cards. I was also very interested in more compatibility with my computer and the XV-5080 has a nice librarian and editor. I was starting to look for some of the SRX cards to add to the sound but also kept thinking about the Integra.

I found a demo at Sweetwater for 1349 and grabbed it because I feared that I would have to keep spending on more SRX cards, and in reality most of the expansions have great sounds, but I would only use a few tones from any one card. The math of getting an upgraded unit and ALL of the SRX cards at once was too much to resist (they also had 36mo. @ 0%).

It took me a few weeks to work the system into my rig, and last night I used it in a full rehearsal and I will never regret my decision! As lol pointed out, you should be thinking more about the SuperNatural sounds ... they are amazing! I tend to use string and choir a lot and the SN patches are incredible. Having bought and sold many legacy Roland units and cards, you have to think about what fully loaded really means. You certainly can't find a 5080 with all 12 SRX cards included and you may find yourself adding more later and end up spending as much anyway.

As a computer professional, I am also very please with having a USB for computer integration, I just wish Roland's editor wasn't complete crap! (look for Take's editor in this forum if you make the jump).

The 5080 for me was an upgraded 1080+++, but the Integra is more like a brand new platform with the "best of 5080 collection" included. I had to change much more to my setup bringing in the Integra then I did when I introduced the 5080, but the palette on the Integra is so diverse that while I started trying to reproduce the 5080 on my new Integra, I found myself instead finding newer and better tones to use and really expanding my overall sound.

And it can't be stated too much that the SuperNatural sounds (acoustic, synth and drums) are amazing.

Very nice description of the effect integra has over even 5080 "monster" owners!!
As a former Fantom/SonicCell/RD owner, I had the luck to be offered one integra, and it replaces all of them in almost all aspects (just missing a few Performances on the Fantom, but my other board solved that), and it has a very high value added bonus... the SuperNatural Acoustic, that I found to be irreplaceable for Pianos, Violins, Drums, Cellos, Basses, and Guitars (Acoustic, Electric, lead).

Very easy to manage even from the front panel.
I don't really use Editors live, as I prefer to take some time and tweak the sounds I want previously, save them on parts and create banks by using the Studio Sets, so my sound switching is easy and quick.

[blu3planet]

Thanks alot for the info guys! it definitely seem like a no brainer. and I gonna get one. probably new and not 2nd hand.

just wondering about 2 things though...


1. I understand there's a limitation of only 64 "studio sets" - to me, the things I enjoy most about romplers is layering sounds - especially leads / keys / strings. this practically shows that you can only save 64 of such layered sounds... how do you overcome this?


2. how are the organs in the Integra? and the leslie emu? convincing enough? is it up there with the V-combo keyboard from Roland? I'm sure it's probably not in the level of dedicated clonewheels as the SK1 or the Electro 5D. but what are your impressions of it?

I'm not mainly an organ player but mainly a jazz / jazzfunk / fusion player and I'd love to have some convincing sounds like Walter Wanderley for Bossa style hammond and jazzier stuff like Shirly Scott, Jimmy Smith, Joey Defrancesco or Jack McDuff :)

[lol]

You can save all the studio sets you want onto a usb stick you plug on the front panel, and you can load them from there directly, so it's not an issue at all. Same for presets and complete backups.

At this point, I think you should have a look at the detailed parameters list to see how deep is the organ edition. It's not as easy as you think to get all these 44 parameters to make some good sounds, because the possibilities are really vast here and you need to understand what you're doing to make the best out of it. But you can recreate about any organ sound you want, and as it's a real organ synth engine, not a sampled based organ, it's highly realistic when you play it. You choose between 3 types of Leslie sim (with overdrive), and if that's not enough, the PCM and SRX parts of the synth have many other organ sound types to work with. It's quite convincing imo, much better than Yamaha AWM2 organs for instance, and in par with older software like Native Instruments B4 I'd say. The only problem is that you have to map most of the parameters (drawbars etc.) to your controller keyboard via sysex, and it's not really a sexy thing to do...

Anyway, I can tell you, you'll feel really silly once you will have gotten the damned box, to have had to ask so many questions doubting the general reviews in its favor...

[iowagold]

see this roland down load link for all the classic sounds.
http://axial.roland.com/category/integra-7/
it has most of the xv and jp sounds...
and most of the patches are ready to go or ready for re tweak in editor.
I spent a few min on the phone with roland today...
I was looking for the super saw's.
the download is free and they say you can load all of the patches on that page right in using a usb flash.\they are small files!!.
TY roland!!
yup I will be back for 3 more of the integra7's!

[Monkey Man]

3 more?

Man, I thought I had the disease badly 'cause I've always wanted 2 so I can have all the boards I need loaded at once; I'll still be getting that second unit, and it's only a few months away now.

So glad you love it, man!

[PauloF]

3 more?

Man, I thought I had the disease badly 'cause I've always wanted 2 so I can have all the boards I need loaded at once; I'll still be getting that second unit, and it's only a few months away now.

So glad you love it, man!

Hi Brother M!
One is just fine for me!

I'm switching Studio Sets in 2 seconds and loading new boards in 10 seconds, so I don't need more than that ;-)

I know... I still owe you the SysEx MIDI commands you asked me for long time ago... Just recalled, and will send you in my first opportunity

Cheers M

PauloF