Hi everyone,
I purchased my Integra7 a few years ago and have been wanting to use it for making backing tracks for some gigs, among other things. I am visually impaired, so am not very good at learning how to do things on the Integra-7 itself. Normally I rely on external sequencers and hope that I can get the integra to do what I need with conventional midi messages (program/bank changes, controllers, sysex etc.) I really don't know much about how the Integra-7 is structured beyond the basics.
I like a lot of the Integra's sounds but one thing has been getting in my way. I've noticed that when I use a PCM tone, the reverb level (controlled by CC91) can often go pretty high. But when I use a supernatural acoustic tone, the reverb, while present, isn't very loud at all (it's maybe a quarter of what I can get with PCM). I'm most interested in acoustic sounds, so the necessity to crank the reverb to full on SNA tones and still wanting more is driving me a bit crazy, not to mention if I'm feeling cinematic and I want a huge hall ambience, I can't even get close, and I really like some of the orchestral sounds!
Back when I used a Roland FA06 regularly, I had this exact scenario. A friend who had the FA and found the reverb underwhelming sent me a set of sysex for a custom studio set which according to him, boosts the reverb. I'm not exactly sure what he did but the reverb definitely sounds louder than normal, but it's all relative. While it brought the sna reverb up a little, it still wasn't something I'd call particularly wet. But pcm tones became ridiculous.
I tried reading the manual and messing with the Integra's screens to get a handle on reverb controls, but didn't get far. I've since switched to a Yamaha PSR-S970 for the backing tracks. Its sounds are more to my taste, the reverb is very consistent, and the sysex easier to handle when needed. But, The Integra sounds would complement it so well! Besides I don't like giving up when something has some good qualities, so I want to take another crack at this.
I'm already off to a good start as I discovered the Integra7 editor vsti today. It uses a web interface which is a bit clunky to navigate with keystrokes but it is certainly doable for a visually impaired person. I was able to switch tones and effects and other things with it, so I know I can use it, but I'm not yet familiar with everything on offer. Still, nothing I have read leads me to a potential solution yet. I've considered maybe going in the tone editor and changing a reverb send there (haven't looked extensively to see if this is possible but I feel like it's mentioned somewhere in the docs). Seems counterintuitive though.
Finally I've considered the possibility that the sna engine is just hardwired to have less reverb, so the only way to get more would be to add it externally eg. sacrifice an mfx or just add some in a daw. That seems so pointless though.
Does anyone have any advice for me? A setting to look at, a sysex to try etc.
Thanks in advance for your help!
how to make SNA reverb level match PCM reverb level?
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musicalman
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 08:04, 18 June 2016
Re: how to make SNA reverb level match PCM reverb level?
The one simple way to solve this bug is simply to match the PCM tones reverb levels to the SN tones reverb level. That's it, that's all. You're just trying to do it the other way round, and it's not possible.
You have a reverb send in the main mixer for each chanel, and you can as well raise the reverb level and change its type in the main fx screen. But fact is the Integra-7 reverb will never be cinematic, it's not the best part of the module at all. If you engage the Motional Surround you have other reverb settings and you can push the sounds you wish to the back of the stage where they will receive more reverb, but you will not be able to correct completely the reverb level discrepancy between SN and PCM tones, if you don't tame down the PCM reverb level to match the SN reverb ceiling. Last but not least, the freeware third party Integra-7 Sound Editor (https://synth-voice.sakura.ne.jp/Integr ... glish.html) is generally preferred to the VST editor, because it's more complete on the module's controls, and it works very well. It's not VST however, so it cannot be automated or integrated in a DAW.
Maybe someone else will comment with more ideas about that the Integra-7 reverb issue.
You have a reverb send in the main mixer for each chanel, and you can as well raise the reverb level and change its type in the main fx screen. But fact is the Integra-7 reverb will never be cinematic, it's not the best part of the module at all. If you engage the Motional Surround you have other reverb settings and you can push the sounds you wish to the back of the stage where they will receive more reverb, but you will not be able to correct completely the reverb level discrepancy between SN and PCM tones, if you don't tame down the PCM reverb level to match the SN reverb ceiling. Last but not least, the freeware third party Integra-7 Sound Editor (https://synth-voice.sakura.ne.jp/Integr ... glish.html) is generally preferred to the VST editor, because it's more complete on the module's controls, and it works very well. It's not VST however, so it cannot be automated or integrated in a DAW.
Maybe someone else will comment with more ideas about that the Integra-7 reverb issue.
-
musicalman
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 08:04, 18 June 2016
Re: how to make SNA reverb level match PCM reverb level?
Thanks for your reply.
This is sad news and a little hard for me to come to terms with. For me, this reverb discrepancy would be like crippling the velocity ranges on some voices so that velocities 120-127 didn't play, rendering the odd heavy-handed note missing from time to time. Such a minor caveat! That's why we have velocity scaling right? I mean you have 119 velocities to use. Still, I guarantee you it would make a fuss. Reverb discrepancies might not be as noticeable to everyone in all cases but, ehh. Just can't see how it could be blown off.
I'm not trying to whine or contest anything you say. I believe you on all counts and accept it as truth. I'm just trying to digest it I guess. In the end I guess it is as you say, despite the amount of work that went into the synth to make it as great as it is, it really was the last underdeveloped straw and a few things escape the cracks and will never be addressed and that's it. Such a shame.
All the same I'll definitely try your suggestions. I'm learning as I go, so hopefully I'll find a compromise that works for me. Thank you very much for the information!
This is sad news and a little hard for me to come to terms with. For me, this reverb discrepancy would be like crippling the velocity ranges on some voices so that velocities 120-127 didn't play, rendering the odd heavy-handed note missing from time to time. Such a minor caveat! That's why we have velocity scaling right? I mean you have 119 velocities to use. Still, I guarantee you it would make a fuss. Reverb discrepancies might not be as noticeable to everyone in all cases but, ehh. Just can't see how it could be blown off.
I'm not trying to whine or contest anything you say. I believe you on all counts and accept it as truth. I'm just trying to digest it I guess. In the end I guess it is as you say, despite the amount of work that went into the synth to make it as great as it is, it really was the last underdeveloped straw and a few things escape the cracks and will never be addressed and that's it. Such a shame.
All the same I'll definitely try your suggestions. I'm learning as I go, so hopefully I'll find a compromise that works for me. Thank you very much for the information!
Re: how to make SNA reverb level match PCM reverb level?
But ok, let's believe for a minute.
I'd be very surprised if Roland came up with an Integra-7 update after all this time.
Let's wait and see. We love you Roland, come on!
I'd be very surprised if Roland came up with an Integra-7 update after all this time.
Let's wait and see. We love you Roland, come on!
Re: how to make SNA reverb level match PCM reverb level?
Two other options to consider for getting reverb more “wet” on the SuperNatural sounds that I’ve tried:
1) use an external rack reverb :)
2) physically route one of the sets of output channels to the Integra-7’s audio inputs and add additional reverb from the Integra as if you were using an external input. In other words, connect the B outputs to the external in. Set your SuperNatural sound(s) output(s) to B, Those sounds will now appear on the EXT input channel where you can apply the Studio Set’s master reverb in an amount comparable to the PCM sounds.
1) use an external rack reverb :)
2) physically route one of the sets of output channels to the Integra-7’s audio inputs and add additional reverb from the Integra as if you were using an external input. In other words, connect the B outputs to the external in. Set your SuperNatural sound(s) output(s) to B, Those sounds will now appear on the EXT input channel where you can apply the Studio Set’s master reverb in an amount comparable to the PCM sounds.