New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

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kday
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by kday »

timbo1000 wrote:My view is, if Fantom G owners want to discuss about a possible new Roland workstation then let them. Looking at the numbers of posts, they do. For those who don't want to discuss the subject, Don't, simple.
+ 1

This whole Fantom G was dead until i revived it, if people are also dead with this thread, and wants to remain sleeping, they could, but don't prevent the majority who enjoy to read and post in this thread continue to do so if the thread obviously isn't going to be moved.

My thought was when I created it was, should I let the Fantom G forum remain dead, and let Roland fan base remain hopeless at this company from the frustration, or should I liven this place up with new hope, new joy, new excitement, new dreams again? Well I chose the latter, it's not a big deal that folks talk about a Fantom G successor. If we had tons post appearing like on other forums then I can understand. But when you have a site that looked like everybody went to bed, then that's bad for business to remain dead.

There's no such thing as "this subject has been discussed to death" this is the coming NAMM show, and this is the perfect time to discuss a Roland new Workstation that may be coming. The wait may be over, let the excitement begin, or lets all bury Roland together in a cemetery plot and go back to the dead forum it was before i started it?

Ok folks, we happen to stumble into the Fantom forum, you can all go back to bed now, go to sleep little children. lol
kday
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by kday »

Parsifal wrote:
Leh173 wrote:As far as this discussion goes, I'm out.
It's your call. However, what does this have to do with others having a most civilized discussion, on topic? It may seem to you that "it leads nowhere", it may indeed lead nowhere, however if there's even the slightest possibility it may lead to constructive hints to Roland reps to get a grip to, I guess we'd have to try. You never know the future before it happens, do you?

On-topic, now:

Let's face it. We don't cry a river because we fear Roland might get bankrupt. Most complains in regard to Roland workstations have to do with our inability to purchase EVERYTHING, AT ANY COST, ANYWHERE.
While this is an understandable situation, our position is as follows:
IF - and only if - Roland cashes in big time into workstation market AND also recoups their R&D investment on this particular segment, they MIGHT let their hardware prices go to a point where most of us, fantomized users, can afford them. Then and only then, we can go shopping Roland products without ruining our entire lifestyle.
THEREFORE! In order to do this, we feel the need to go to any length to "help Roland help us", giving them hints to create more succesful products, at better prices.
Anyone who rejects this is in denial.
+ 1

I think users will go to any lengths to get Roland's attention advising that we're here still with needs, and ideas. An if you really want Roland to listen to anything regarding workstations, then this is the perfect place, because they will read the Fantom G forum because it their latest greatest synth workstation and will see what people are still talking about. They may even come here to give news of the next one when it's time to promote.
jahrome
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by jahrome »

If a new workstation does come out....please don't ignore the sampler this time.

Fantom G + MV-8800 sampler/sample editor= Awesome workstation
spottingjonah
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by spottingjonah »

If I may offer some wishful thinking to the list, I remember watching a video of “Ed Diaz” doing a demo of the RD700NX. He made a comment of the many folks who ask him when Roland plans to bring back the A-90. I owned one of these and know first hand how great the 4-zone feature was for a controller. And while I realize the RD700 has this feature, I’m not interested in a limited feature stage piano.

Since these 88 key workstations end up on stage as often as they are used in a studio, why not include a few controller type features like this? If low sales is driving a shrinking workstation market, perhaps manufactures should not release so many niche products (How many Junos do we really need?) and instead release a workstation with more than just a sound engine, sequencer, and sampler. Isn’t a workstation suppose to be the Swiss army knife of keyboards? Kronos is the closest thing I’ve seen to that, albeit with a heavy does of gimmicks.

So, the question is: If Roland came out with a workstation / controller, w/ a G8 type platform with the added 4-Zone controller feature, an expanded sampler, a built-in Integra 7, and seamless DAW integration (Pro Tools??) would you not figure out a way to add that to your rig right away? (Assuming you don’t already have a G8, and an RD700 AND an Integra 7) I mean, I would take the 4-Zones over D Beam any day.

What the heck… this is fantasy. Why not have fun with it?
Vlad_77
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by Vlad_77 »

Hi spottingjonah,

Since you made it a point to write that Kronos seems to accomplish it's mission via "gimmicks", I wonder if you would expand on that please?

A straight up comparison with the Fantom G in terms of the basic functionality of a workstation reveals that Kronos is not a gimmick instrument:

Sampling: Both
Sequencer: Both
Synthesis: Both
DAW integration (relatively new category for workstations): Both (And obviously this isn't confined to workstations)

What else in your opinion comprises the function of a workstation? In terms of Kronos, what "heavy dose of gimmicks" are you speaking of?

Asking out of curiosity. :)

Best,
Vlad
spottingjonah
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by spottingjonah »

Vlad,

No offense intended. I’m a huge Korg fan. My old X3 was the best keyboard I ever owned as far as inspiration and how much use I got out of it. I’ve owned an N264, a Triton, a Triton Studio, and now a Kronos. The Korg workflow is what I am most use to and prefer. Love the sounds and the flexibility.

Maybe Gimmick was a poor choice of words (Didn’t think that would stand out to anyone), but IMHO (and I can’t stress that enough – it is just my silly opinion) what I mean is two things –

1) The use of pictures for instruments a la V-Drums or SN Acoustic. I know what a piano looks like (oooh, look, the lid goes up and down), and I don’t need to look at choir singers for a vocal pad. Enough with the instrument photos. It’s a professional instrument, not a grade school music book.

2) The different Synth engines is a bit much. I get the concept, but the marketing makes it sound like so much more than what it really is – 9 plug ins. They’re nice, don’t get me wrong, but I’d prefer a single programming workflow with all of the available synth engine options verses having multiple workflows that you have to learn. I’m not a “programmer” so I’m sure I’m missing something here, but from my perspective it seems a bit overblown. Like a bit of a gimmick (again, maybe a bad choice of words). I just wish they had spent more time on the build quality and less on the GUI features (Wow, look, it’s like a real patch cord!!), but that’s just me.

Now, I’m sure there are many of you just waiting to pounce on how wrong I am. Fair enough. Just be mindful – I don’t need any help convincing me that my opinion doesn’t matter. I’m fully aware of that. So pounce gently. After all… this isn’t the Korg forum. This is for the up coming Roland workstation that I anxiously wait for :-) In the mean, I continue to really enjoy my Kronos, gimmicks and all.

BTW Vlad, how's that V Synth working out? I'm jealous!!
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cello
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by cello »

haha :)

In response, spottingjonah -

1) So true

2) As an ex-OASYS owner (and many other bits of Korg kit - trinity, triton, radias, T3) I could provide 100 examples that shows my agreement (and I could add more elements) - but I will spare you that... I will simply say I couldn't agree more! And of course this is the power of the JP-80 - one very easy but powerful workflow :)

Still - can't see there being a new Roland workstation soon :(

Has Vlad_77 got the V he wanted? Must read his other posts and find out how he's getting on with it! It's a fine, fine board.
kday
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by kday »

A straight up comparison with the Fantom G in terms of the basic functionality of a workstation reveals that Kronos is not a gimmick instrument:

Sampling: Both
Sequencer: Both
Synthesis: Both
DAW integration (relatively new category for workstations): Both (And obviously this isn't confined to workstations)
Should have been like this...

Sampling: Both
Sequencer: Both
Synthesis: Kronos

Fantom G has no synthesizer in comparison to the Kronos.

Kronos has at least 5 different synthesizers that does real synthesis.

Fantom G does limited synthesis from PCM waveforms, just the standard digital PCM ROM playback sound engine which is called a synthesizer. But not really a synthesizer like what we've been accustomed to knowing and seeing and hearing and what's included in a Kronos.

So I think he was right, in the comparison that the Kronos is more closer to musical utopia, and a Fantom G is still miles away from coming close to that and even a Kronos.
Mystic38
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by Mystic38 »

it does not appear that you know very much about the Fantom G..

As a controller keyboard it it excellent, and not that far from perfect.... without uttering a single sound it has 16 external zones, and is perhaps the easiest controller to setup. Zones can be turned on/off at will and add to that the ability to launch samples at will from keyboard or pads, and launch RPS of either internal and external parts and you will see that the FG is already light years ahead of that old skool A90 as a controller
spottingjonah wrote: Since these 88 key workstations end up on stage as often as they are used in a studio, why not include a few controller type features like this? I mean, I would take the 4-Zones over D Beam any day.

What the heck… this is fantasy. Why not have fun with it?
Mystic38
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by Mystic38 »

I don't think you get to define a "synthesizer".. ;)

FYI there is nothing "limited" about the synthesizer architecture of the Fantom G. PCM based yes, but the architecture itself is very polished.
kday wrote:
Fantom G does limited synthesis from PCM waveforms, just the standard digital PCM ROM playback sound engine which is called a synthesizer. But not really a synthesizer like what we've been accustomed to knowing and seeing and hearing and what's included in a Kronos.

So I think he was right, in the comparison that the Kronos is more closer to musical utopia, and a Fantom G is still miles away from coming close to that and even a Kronos.
Vlad_77
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by Vlad_77 »

spottingjonah wrote:Vlad,

No offense intended. I’m a huge Korg fan. My old X3 was the best keyboard I ever owned as far as inspiration and how much use I got out of it. I’ve owned an N264, a Triton, a Triton Studio, and now a Kronos. The Korg workflow is what I am most use to and prefer. Love the sounds and the flexibility.

Maybe Gimmick was a poor choice of words (Didn’t think that would stand out to anyone), but IMHO (and I can’t stress that enough – it is just my silly opinion) what I mean is two things –

1) The use of pictures for instruments a la V-Drums or SN Acoustic. I know what a piano looks like (oooh, look, the lid goes up and down), and I don’t need to look at choir singers for a vocal pad. Enough with the instrument photos. It’s a professional instrument, not a grade school music book.

2) The different Synth engines is a bit much. I get the concept, but the marketing makes it sound like so much more than what it really is – 9 plug ins. They’re nice, don’t get me wrong, but I’d prefer a single programming workflow with all of the available synth engine options verses having multiple workflows that you have to learn. I’m not a “programmer” so I’m sure I’m missing something here, but from my perspective it seems a bit overblown. Like a bit of a gimmick (again, maybe a bad choice of words). I just wish they had spent more time on the build quality and less on the GUI features (Wow, look, it’s like a real patch cord!!), but that’s just me.

Now, I’m sure there are many of you just waiting to pounce on how wrong I am. Fair enough. Just be mindful – I don’t need any help convincing me that my opinion doesn’t matter. I’m fully aware of that. So pounce gently. After all… this isn’t the Korg forum. This is for the up coming Roland workstation that I anxiously wait for :-) In the mean, I continue to really enjoy my Kronos, gimmicks and all.

BTW Vlad, how's that V Synth working out? I'm jealous!!
Hey spottingjonah,

The V is is like that love affair you hope is frozen in time forever. :) I LOVE it and my mind is reeling at the possibilities.

As for the Kronos, no offense taken! I'm not a Korg employee, and in fact, four of my eight instrumen ts are Rolands! (Two Korgs, a Kurzweil, and a Yamaha round it out).

As for the pics, well, look to the Fantom X. ;) Afraid we can't put the blame on Korg solely for that.

Synthesis wise, and this is just my opinion, even if they are "plugins", they are powerful plugins and provide serious synthesis approaches with amazing sound. Now, I am not knocking the Fantom's synthesis capabilities. After all Roland has has years of getting their architecture down from the XV series through all three Fantoms. The architecture is polished, and in fact in terms of sequencing, I prefer the sequencer on my Fantom X. But the synthesizer and sampling components of Kronos really do blow the Fantom out of the water:

Fantom FA-76, Fantom S, Fantom X, Xa: PCM based
Fantom G: ARX which COULD have blown Kronos out of the galaxy as each ARX card was essentially another engine. Roland dropped the ball.

Kronos/OASYS: AL-1 generates waveforms; they are not sampled.
Kronos/OASYS: Physical modeling in STR-1
Kronos: hybrid PCM/modeling for EP-1

Sampling: The only hardware sampler that offers user streaming samples is Kronos, and that along with SGX-1 blows the ceiling of the paradigm of thinking in terms of megabytes. Not to knock Yamaha, but 755 MB of waveforms and flash memory isn't exactly worth the deep dent Yamaha places on one's bank account. Given the choice, I would, for the same price as an XF, take a Fantom G any day of the week.

Sequencing: Fantom X and G all the way. In fact, the Fantom G owners have a KILLER sequencer.

To sum up: I think the Fantom X, G, and Kronos/OASYS are SERIOUSLY powerful workstations. The only reason I didn't buy a G at the time was that it was fraught with glaring omissions of features that were present on the X.

To Mystic: My post was never meant to state that the G is "limited" in synthesis. I'll assume you were answering someone else. I still have an X and I have found it to be a very capable synth in fact and it seems that at least was carried over to the G. That said, even forgetting the synthesis capabilities, or rather TYPES of synthesis on Kronos, TRUE FM for example which even Kurzweil has to fudge, having played the V-Synth, there is no way that the G or the X can match the V in terms of pure synthesis. Yet, Roland might have done well by including a "V-Synth III" on the G instead of ARX. Just my opinion of course.

As I stated, I zeroed in on the "heavy dose of gimmicks" phrase from spottingjonah and I was curious. Now I understand what he meant, and in the end, it's all good. What's important is what works for each of us as musicians. I know guitar players that would touch a Les Paul to save their lives and still others that think Strats are crap; courses for horses as they say.

I would guess that except for one person who wanted this thread to be locked, that many of us share a strong desire to see Roland produce a killer workstation. I have four Rolands for a reason and it isn't because they are cheap, and this coming from a Kronos player. ;)

Best to all and sorry if I didn't communicate effectively.

Vlad
spottingjonah
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by spottingjonah »

Mystic38 wrote:it does not appear that you know very much about the Fantom G..
You're right... I don't know very much about the Fantom G (or X for that matter). I never owned one. My comment was specifically referring to what I would enjoy seeing in a new workstation. To my knowledge the FG doesn't have muiltiple MIDI outs and dedicated zone buttons/sliders. If there's a way this can be accomplished by assigning the universal buttons / sliders on the G, that's great, but that is not what I was referring to. I appreciate the information you shared.
kday
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by kday »

I wish Roland would create a more easy to use full fledge professional level sampler that can load and save Wav files instantly to a key to create instant multi-samples programs like how the Ensoniq does on the ASR-10 sampler, or how it's done on an MPC sampler, etc, since they've taken on the "Sampling Workstation" name on their Fantom workstations. Otherwise their sampling is no better then Yamaha or Korg who doesn't state they specialize in being a "Sampling Workstation" but offer just as great or more advance sampling.
florin2013
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by florin2013 »

I didn't test the Kronos.
But I had M3 for a year, and I've tested Oasys for 4 months.
The sound is cheezy, and the bass is more like mid-low. those keyboards didn't have dynamics. The soundcards were like a Creative comparing to RME.
Even on digital output, I didn't get the full sound of the Fantom-X7 I own now.
I had X7 and M3 on the same time, and the M3 was like a butter.
From drums to synths, to anything. Powerless.
The Oasys was like a M3 with studio gadgets. I don't give a damn thing about ADAT, Mic imput, any connections, if the sound is cheezy.
I had the G and my X for a week.
I am not pleased to say that the G was a little cheezy. The Fantom-X series, have something, I don't know, a range of frequency that gives it the round full sound.
I know about the master compression, and the other routing.
It wasn't that...
as a detail, I had 7 kind of sounds, that coukd bwe found on both keyboards.
both "arranged" to sound on output at -4dB.
X was more powefull and I can't remember the RMS, but it had a full rounded sound.
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G-Man
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Re: New Roland Synthesizer Workstation Coming at Namm 2014

Post by G-Man »

florin2013 - that doesn't make too much sense. The G has 6 times more EFX power than the X, so definitely the G sounds more rounded and powerful, at least in Studio and Live Mode. Many patches being common between the two.
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