SuperNatural Engine FA/0x versus Integra-7

[BalcoDK]

SuperNatural Engine FA/0x versus Integra-7
=============================================

Note: This is an comparison with focus only on the SuperNatural engine (Acoustic, VA Synth and Drum).
Other features are ignored (PCM engine, SRXs, Sequencer, Sampler etc.).
Information/specs are collected from Instrument documentation and may be subject for change without prior notice. This is an comparison made primarily for my own personal use and may unintentionally contain wrong data. Please verify Information/specs from official Roland documentation before making your own conclusion.

The FA/0x SuperNatural Acoustic and drum engine is an small subset (25% and 21%) of the Integra-7.
Whereas the SuperNatural VA Synth engine is identical. Some missing SN Acoustic instruments are
among others: Trumpet, Violin, Flute, Sax, Steel Drums, Accordion, Flamenco Guitar, Jazz Guitar and more...

Comparison (Integra-7 100%):
---------------------------------------
Price: 67% (FA06), 107% (FA08)
SN INST: 25%
SN Drum INST: 21%
Preset SN Acoustic Tones: 28%
Preset SN Synth Tones: 100%
Preset SN Drum Kits: 16%
VA SN Synth PCM Waveforms: 100%
Multi-Effects (MFX): 100% (Vocoder not included)
Maximum Polyphony: 100%

(<100% less on FA06/FA08)

FA06/FA08:
---------------------------------------
INST: 31
Drum INST: 61
Drum kits: 5 (Preset)
Acoustic Tones: 100 (Preset)
Synth Tones: 1110 + 5 Vocoders
SN Synth PCM Waveforms: 450

Integra-7:
---------------------------------------
INST: 77 (int) + 50 (Ex)
Drum INST: 294 (Intern 168, ExSN6 126)
Drum kits: 26 (Preset Intern) + 7 (ExSN6)
Acoustic Tones: 364 (256 + 108)
Synth Tones: 1109
SN Synth PCM Waveforms: 450

SN Acoustic INST
Integra-7/FA (INT):
---------------------------------------
1/1 ConcertGrand Ac.Piano
2/2 Grand Piano1 Ac.Piano
3/3 Grand Piano2 Ac.Piano
4/4 Grand Piano3 Ac.Piano
5/5 Mellow Piano Ac.Piano
6/6 Bright Piano Ac.Piano
7/7 UprightPiano Ac.Piano
8/8 Concert Mono Ac.Piano
9/9 Honky-tonk Ac.Piano
10/10 Pure Vage EP1 E.Piano
11/11 Pure Vage EP2 E.Piano
12/12 Pure Wurly E.Piano
13/13 Pure Vage EP3 E.Piano
14/14 Old Hammer EP E.Piano
15/15 Dyno Piano E.Piano
16/16 Clav CB Flat Other Keyboards
17/17 Clav CA Flat Other Keyboards
18/18 Clav CB Medium Other Keyboards
19/19 Clav CA Medium Other Keyboards
20/20 Clav CB Brillia Other Keyboards
21/21 Clav CA Brillia Other Keyboards
22/22 Clav CB Combo Other Keyboards
23/23 Clav CA Combo Other Keyboards
---------------------------------
24/-- Glockenspiel Bell/Mallet
25/-- Vibraphone Bell/Mallet
26/-- Marimba Bell/Mallet
27/-- Xylophone Bell/Mallet
28/-- Tubular Bells Bell/Mallet
---------------------------------
29/24 TW Organ Organ
---------------------------------
30/-- French Accordion Accordion/Harmonica
31/-- Italian Accordion Accordion/Harmonica
32/-- Harmonica Accordion/Harmonica
33/-- Bandoneon Accordion/Harmonica
---------------------------------
34/25 Nylon Guitar Ac.Guitar
---------------------------------
35/-- Flamenco Guitar Ac.Guitar
---------------------------------
36/26 SteelStr Guitar Ac.Guitar
---------------------------------
37/-- Jazz Guitar E.Guitar
38/-- ST Guitar Half E.Guitar
39/-- ST Guitar Front E.Guitar
40/-- TC Guitar Rear E.Guitar
---------------------------------
41/27 Acoustic Bass Ac.Bass
42/28 Fingered Bass E.Bass
43/29 Picked Bass E.Bass
---------------------------------
44/-- Fretless Bass E.Bass
45/-- Violin Strings
46/-- Violin 2 Strings
47/-- Viola Strings
48/-- Cello Strings
49/-- Cello 2 Strings
50/-- Contrabass Strings
51/-- Harp Plucked/Stroke
52/-- Timpani Percussion
---------------------------------
53/30 Strings Strings
54/31 Marcato Strings Strings
---------------------------------
55/-- London Choir Vox/Choir
56/-- Boys Choir Vox/Choir
57/-- Trumpet Brass
58/-- Trombone Brass
59/-- Tb2 CupMute Brass
60/-- Mute Trumpet Brass
61/-- French Horn Brass
62/-- Soprano Sax 2 Sax
63/-- Alto Sax 2 Sax
64/-- Tenor Sax 2 Sax
65/-- Baritone Sax 2 Sax
66/-- Oboe Wind
67/-- Bassoon Wind
68/-- Clarinet Wind
69/-- Piccolo Flute
70/-- Flute Flute
71/-- Pan Flute Flute
72/-- Shakuhachi Flute
73/-- Sitar Plucked/Stroke
74/-- Uilleann Pipes Wind
75/-- Bag Pipes Wind
76/-- Erhu Strings
77/-- Steel Drums Percussion

-- Missing on FA/06 and FA/08

Only Integra-7:
----------------------------------
ExSN1 1 Santoor Bell/Mallet
ExSN1 2 Yang Chin Bell/Mallet
ExSN1 3 Tin Whistle Flute
ExSN1 4 Ryuteki Flute
ExSN1 5 Tsugaru Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 6 Sansin Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 7 Koto Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 8 Taishou Koto Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 9 Kalimba Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 10 Sarangi Strings
ExSN2 1 Soprano Sax Sax
ExSN2 2 Alto Sax Sax
ExSN2 3 Tenor Sax Sax
ExSN2 4 Baritone Sax Sax
ExSN2 5 English Horn Wind
ExSN2 6 Bass Clarinet Wind
ExSN2 7 Flute2 Flute
ExSN2 8 Soprano Recorder Recorder
ExSN2 9 Alto Recorder Recorder
ExSN2 10 Tenor Recorder Recorder
ExSN2 11 Bass Recorder Recorder
ExSN2 12 Ocarina SopC Recorder
ExSN2 13 Ocarina SopF Recorder
ExSN2 14 Ocarina Alto Recorder
ExSN2 15 Ocarina Bass Recorder
ExSN3 1 TC Guitar w/Fing Ac.Guitar
ExSN3 2 335Guitar w/Fing Ac.Guitar
ExSN3 3 LP Guitar Rear E.Guitar
ExSN3 4 LP Guitar Front E.Guitar
ExSN3 5 335 Guitar Half E.Guitar
ExSN3 6 Acoustic Bass 2 Ac.Bass
ExSN3 7 Fingered Bass 2 E.Bass
ExSN3 8 Picked Bass 2 E.Bass
ExSN4 1 Ukulele Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 2 Nylon Guitar 2 Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 3 12th Steel Gtr Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 4 Mandolin Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 5 SteelFing Guitar Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 6 SteelStr Guitar2 Ac.Guitar
ExSN5 1 Classical Trumpet Brass
ExSN5 2 Frugal Horn Brass
ExSN5 3 Trumpet 2 Brass
ExSN5 4 Mariachi Tp Brass
ExSN5 5 Trombone 2 Brass
ExSN5 6 Bass Trombone Brass
ExSN5 7 Tuba Brass
ExSN5 8 Straight Mute Tp Brass
ExSN5 9 Cup Mute Trumpet Brass
ExSN5 10 French Horn 2 Brass
ExSN5 11 Mute French Horn Brass

Updated:
==============
As i understand you can roughly say the FA is a updated combination/subset of:

Juno-Gi (Arpeggiator, Chord Memory, Rythm Pattern, keybed, D-Beam, Sound Modify Knobs, SD Card, Insert Effects IFX)
Integra-7 (SN-Acoustic 25% subset, SN-Drum 21% subset, SN-Synth 100%, PCM Synth and PCM Drum)
SP-404SX (Sampler and Total Effects TFX)
Plus an new sequencer and UI.

The keybed on FA-08 is identical to the RD-300NX.

The PCM engine has 2 intern waveform banks (1: XV-5080 waveforms 2: Selected waveforms from SRX and Fantom) and at least 1 extern bank for download of waveform data from Axial site. (not sure how it's organized)

I don't belive the SN-Acoustic, SN-Synth and SN-Drum engines can be updated (without an new firmware). But i think the PCM extern bank(s) can be updated with SRX and future waveforms.

The Parameters for the SN and PCM engines, MFX, Chorus, Reverb are identical to the Integra-7.

IFX looks like the parameters from the Juno-Gi MFXs.

TFX comes from SP-404SX.

Sampler format 16-bit linear, 44.1 kHz, WAV/AIFF/MP3 import supported
Maximum Polyphony 8
Number of Samples 16 Pads x 4 Banks (for each song)
Samples cannot be used as wave data for the sound engine.

PS: Thanks for your comments :-)

[PauloF]

SuperNatural Engine FA/0x versus Integra-7
=============================================

Note: This is an comparison with focus only on the SuperNatural engine (Acoustic, VA Synth and Drum).
Other features are ignored (PCM engine, SRXs, Sequencer, Sampler etc.).
Information/specs are collected from Instrument documentation and may be subject for change without prior notice. This is an comparison made primarily for my own personal use and may unintentionally contain wrong data. Please verify Information/specs from official Roland documentation before making your own conclusion.

The FA/0x SuperNatural Acoustic and drum engine is an small subset (25% and 21%) of the Integra-7.
Whereas the SuperNatural VA Synth engine is identical. Some missing SN Acoustic instruments are
among others: Trumpet, Violin, Flute, Sax, Steel Drums, Accordion, Flamenco Guitar, Jazz Guitar and more...

Comparison (Integra-7 100%):
---------------------------------------
Price: 67% (FA06), 107% (FA08)
SN INST: 25%
SN Drum INST: 21%
Preset SN Acoustic Tones: 28%
Preset SN Synth Tones: 100%
Preset SN Drum Kits: 16%
VA SN Synth PCM Waveforms: 100%
Multi-Effects (MFX): 100% (Vocoder not included)
Maximum Polyphony: 100%

(<100% less on FA06/FA08)

FA06/FA08:
---------------------------------------
INST: 31
Drum INST: 61
Drum kits: 5 (Preset)
Acoustic Tones: 100 (Preset)
Synth Tones: 1110 + 5 Vocoders
SN Synth PCM Waveforms: 450

Integra-7:
---------------------------------------
INST: 77 (int) + 50 (Ex)
Drum INST: 294 (Intern 168, ExSN6 126)
Drum kits: 26 (Preset Intern) + 7 (ExSN6)
Acoustic Tones: 364 (256 + 108)
Synth Tones: 1109
SN Synth PCM Waveforms: 450

SN Acoustic INST
Integra-7/FA (INT):
---------------------------------------
1/1 ConcertGrand Ac.Piano
2/2 Grand Piano1 Ac.Piano
3/3 Grand Piano2 Ac.Piano
4/4 Grand Piano3 Ac.Piano
5/5 Mellow Piano Ac.Piano
6/6 Bright Piano Ac.Piano
7/7 UprightPiano Ac.Piano
8/8 Concert Mono Ac.Piano
9/9 Honky-tonk Ac.Piano
10/10 Pure Vage EP1 E.Piano
11/11 Pure Vage EP2 E.Piano
12/12 Pure Wurly E.Piano
13/13 Pure Vage EP3 E.Piano
14/14 Old Hammer EP E.Piano
15/15 Dyno Piano E.Piano
16/16 Clav CB Flat Other Keyboards
17/17 Clav CA Flat Other Keyboards
18/18 Clav CB Medium Other Keyboards
19/19 Clav CA Medium Other Keyboards
20/20 Clav CB Brillia Other Keyboards
21/21 Clav CA Brillia Other Keyboards
22/22 Clav CB Combo Other Keyboards
23/23 Clav CA Combo Other Keyboards
---------------------------------
24/-- Glockenspiel Bell/Mallet
25/-- Vibraphone Bell/Mallet
26/-- Marimba Bell/Mallet
27/-- Xylophone Bell/Mallet
28/-- Tubular Bells Bell/Mallet
---------------------------------
29/24 TW Organ Organ
---------------------------------
30/-- French Accordion Accordion/Harmonica
31/-- Italian Accordion Accordion/Harmonica
32/-- Harmonica Accordion/Harmonica
33/-- Bandoneon Accordion/Harmonica
---------------------------------
34/25 Nylon Guitar Ac.Guitar
---------------------------------
35/-- Flamenco Guitar Ac.Guitar
---------------------------------
36/26 SteelStr Guitar Ac.Guitar
---------------------------------
37/-- Jazz Guitar E.Guitar
38/-- ST Guitar Half E.Guitar
39/-- ST Guitar Front E.Guitar
40/-- TC Guitar Rear E.Guitar
---------------------------------
41/27 Acoustic Bass Ac.Bass
42/28 Fingered Bass E.Bass
43/29 Picked Bass E.Bass
---------------------------------
44/-- Fretless Bass E.Bass
45/-- Violin Strings
46/-- Violin 2 Strings
47/-- Viola Strings
48/-- Cello Strings
49/-- Cello 2 Strings
50/-- Contrabass Strings
51/-- Harp Plucked/Stroke
52/-- Timpani Percussion
---------------------------------
53/30 Strings Strings
54/31 Marcato Strings Strings
---------------------------------
55/-- London Choir Vox/Choir
56/-- Boys Choir Vox/Choir
57/-- Trumpet Brass
58/-- Trombone Brass
59/-- Tb2 CupMute Brass
60/-- Mute Trumpet Brass
61/-- French Horn Brass
62/-- Soprano Sax 2 Sax
63/-- Alto Sax 2 Sax
64/-- Tenor Sax 2 Sax
65/-- Baritone Sax 2 Sax
66/-- Oboe Wind
67/-- Bassoon Wind
68/-- Clarinet Wind
69/-- Piccolo Flute
70/-- Flute Flute
71/-- Pan Flute Flute
72/-- Shakuhachi Flute
73/-- Sitar Plucked/Stroke
74/-- Uilleann Pipes Wind
75/-- Bag Pipes Wind
76/-- Erhu Strings
77/-- Steel Drums Percussion

-- Missing on FA/06 and FA/08

Only Integra-7:
----------------------------------
ExSN1 1 Santoor Bell/Mallet
ExSN1 2 Yang Chin Bell/Mallet
ExSN1 3 Tin Whistle Flute
ExSN1 4 Ryuteki Flute
ExSN1 5 Tsugaru Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 6 Sansin Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 7 Koto Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 8 Taishou Koto Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 9 Kalimba Plucked/Stroke
ExSN1 10 Sarangi Strings
ExSN2 1 Soprano Sax Sax
ExSN2 2 Alto Sax Sax
ExSN2 3 Tenor Sax Sax
ExSN2 4 Baritone Sax Sax
ExSN2 5 English Horn Wind
ExSN2 6 Bass Clarinet Wind
ExSN2 7 Flute2 Flute
ExSN2 8 Soprano Recorder Recorder
ExSN2 9 Alto Recorder Recorder
ExSN2 10 Tenor Recorder Recorder
ExSN2 11 Bass Recorder Recorder
ExSN2 12 Ocarina SopC Recorder
ExSN2 13 Ocarina SopF Recorder
ExSN2 14 Ocarina Alto Recorder
ExSN2 15 Ocarina Bass Recorder
ExSN3 1 TC Guitar w/Fing Ac.Guitar
ExSN3 2 335Guitar w/Fing Ac.Guitar
ExSN3 3 LP Guitar Rear E.Guitar
ExSN3 4 LP Guitar Front E.Guitar
ExSN3 5 335 Guitar Half E.Guitar
ExSN3 6 Acoustic Bass 2 Ac.Bass
ExSN3 7 Fingered Bass 2 E.Bass
ExSN3 8 Picked Bass 2 E.Bass
ExSN4 1 Ukulele Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 2 Nylon Guitar 2 Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 3 12th Steel Gtr Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 4 Mandolin Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 5 SteelFing Guitar Ac.Guitar
ExSN4 6 SteelStr Guitar2 Ac.Guitar
ExSN5 1 Classical Trumpet Brass
ExSN5 2 Frugal Horn Brass
ExSN5 3 Trumpet 2 Brass
ExSN5 4 Mariachi Tp Brass
ExSN5 5 Trombone 2 Brass
ExSN5 6 Bass Trombone Brass
ExSN5 7 Tuba Brass
ExSN5 8 Straight Mute Tp Brass
ExSN5 9 Cup Mute Trumpet Brass
ExSN5 10 French Horn 2 Brass
ExSN5 11 Mute French Horn Brass

Welcome to the Clan BalcoDK!!!

Nice comparison work.
Although the FA have still two expansion slots to load new SN-S and SRX sounds, I agree that the FAs even having a subset of the Integra-7 sounds, have complete different abilities that are not possible with integra, like:
- Sampler
- Sequencer
- 512 user LiveSets (opposed to 64 on the integra)
- Easy access to Split/Dual/Liveset (like Performance on the Fantoms)
- Favorite Banks
- Drum patterns (no one seems to talk about this...) with Intros, 2x fills, 2 Verses and Ending, with the possibility to import SMF to be used as a base for a new USER Drum pattern
- Dedicated buttons to Modify the Sound in real time
- Vocoder,
- Insert Effect
- etc, etc

[cminor]

Although the FA have still two expansion slots to load new SN-S and SRX sounds, I agree that the FAs even having a subset of the Integra-7 sounds, have complete different abilities that are not possible with integra, like:
- Sampler

It's not a Full Sampler. It's a loop/trigger sampler.
You can't use a sample as a waveform for a patch.
If FA had that option, my order was on the way to the shop.

[Saxifraga]

- Drum patterns (no one seems to talk about this...) with Intros, 2x fills, 2 Verses and Ending, with the possibility to import SMF to be used as a base for a new USER Drum pattern

Are you sure of that? I would like to see a GW-8 like machine with Integra 7 sounds and those virtual SRX slots, but with a keybed that's comparable to the Fantom G.

[cminor]

I would like to see a GW-8 like machine with Integra 7 sounds and those virtual SRX slots, but with a keybed that's comparable to the Fantom G.

GW-8 has chord-like patterns. with full band (bass/phrase 1-6/ drums), not only drums.
I used to play for joy thru midi , with GW-8 styles and Fantom-X sounds (GW-8 notes send thru midi out to Fantom's midi in).

So the FA06/08 patterns are only drums, not styles, like the GW-8.

[jimmy]

There was an issue with the Integra 7 that if you used lots of channels as SN instruments, you'd start to hit performance problems, as demonstrated in this sound clip: https://soundcloud.com/takeshi-kamiya/s ... egra-7-has

At the time, I believe Roland stated that this is a known issue with supernatural sounds and that they intended to fix it in future instruments. Based on the 16 track sequencing capabilities of the FA series, does that mean this is fixed? is the processor more powerful now? I'm quite curious

[synthguy99]

It's pretty hard to hear any "bad rhythm" at all. Sounds like an EDM issue to me. Since I don't do EDM, I should be good to go.

[PauloF]

I would like to see a GW-8 like machine with Integra 7 sounds and those virtual SRX slots, but with a keybed that's comparable to the Fantom G.

GW-8 has chord-like patterns. with full band (bass/phrase 1-6/ drums), not only drums.
I used to play for joy thru midi , with GW-8 styles and Fantom-X sounds (GW-8 notes send thru midi out to Fantom's midi in).

So the FA06/08 patterns are only drums, not styles, like the GW-8.

Thank God they are just Drums, not styles...otherwise it would be another BK...

[cminor]

Thank God they are just Drums, not styles...otherwise it would be another BK...

I agree !
:)))

[Tom_1970]

What about Jupiter 80 and Integra-7/FA-6 SN-A sounds.
I looked at the soundlists of both the JP80 and the Integra-7 and see a lot of similar types of instruments, but total different names. Are they in essence the same instruments or are they all different and can't you really compare the two sound wise?

I also notice a discrepancy between the soundlist of the I-7 and the parameter guide, but maybe that's because I miss an important part of understanding in the I7.

[BalcoDK]

What about Jupiter 80 and Integra-7/FA-6 SN-A sounds.
I looked at the soundlists of both the JP80 and the Integra-7 and see a lot of similar types of instruments, but total different names. Are they in essence the same instruments or are they all different and can't you really compare the two sound wise?

I also notice a discrepancy between the soundlist of the I-7 and the parameter guide, but maybe that's because I miss an important part of understanding in the I7.

It's harder to compare the FA/Integra-7 to the Jupiter-80. The JP-80 uses LiveSets and Registrations whereas the FA/Integra-7 uses StudioSets (16-parts) - FA/I7 are basically the same sound engine architecture (FA is a subset tone wise). But the Integra-7 was extended with more SuperNatural tones (EXSN1-6) and drum inst and the APS tones where removed (in comparison to the JP-80).

[anotherscott]

What about Jupiter 80 and Integra-7/FA-6 SN-A sounds.
I looked at the soundlists of both the JP80 and the Integra-7 and see a lot of similar types of instruments, but total different names. Are they in essence the same instruments or are they all different and can't you really compare the two sound wise?

I also notice a discrepancy between the soundlist of the I-7 and the parameter guide, but maybe that's because I miss an important part of understanding in the I7.

Yes, it is confusing. And not, as Balco suggests, because the Jupiters use Live Sets and Registrations vs. Studio Sets... it is confusing to compare just the tones, before they are ever assembled into any of those things!

But as I understand it, before loading anything into a virtual slot, the Integra-7 has all (or at least most) of the SuperNatural Acoustic instruments that the Jupiter 50 and 80 have, and then some. And then the Integra also has the extra SN Acoustic instruments you can load into the slots. But despite having mostly the same SN acoustic instruments (stock, prior to loading the extra ones), the set of tones for those instruments are different in quantity and in name.

One difference that's easy to see is that the tonewheel organ model on the Jupiters is just a single recallable SN Acoustic tone, from which you can create and save whatever variations you want; whereas on the integra, what is probably the same tonewheel organ model yields at 15+ recallable SN Acoustic tones. So on the Integra, Roland seems to have decided to create many more "presets" (recallable tone variations) based on the same underlying supernatural instrument models.

Different names add to the confusion. For example, there is a SN Acoustic Piano instrument, which is available in 9 variations (tones 1 through 9) on both the Jupiters and the Integra, yet there is no overlap between the names. Are some of the Integra piano tones identical to those on the Jupiter but with different names? Or are they actually different sonic variations even if generated from the same underlying modeled piano(s)?

To get back to the main topic of the thread, the FA seems to basically have the following SuperNatural Acoustic instrument models (there may be more than one underlying model of some of these, but not necessarily; AFAIK there's no way to tell):

piano
tine EP
reed EP
clav
organ
acoustic bass
electric bass
acoustic guitar
ensemble strings

...all of which are also on the Integra and the Jupiter 50/80 in at least some form, except that the Jupiter lacks the ensemble strings.

In addition to all of those listed above (except ensemble strings), the Jupiter 50/80 also has:

vibes
marimba
harp
sitar
accordions
harmonica
tympani
solo brass (trumpet, trombone, french horn, saxes, etc.)
winds (oboe, bassoon, clarinets, piccolo, flutes)
solo strings (violin, viola, cello)

In addition to those listed above, the Integra-7 also has:

elec guitar
glockenspiel, xylophone, tubular bells, steel drums
choirs
bagpipes

plus the additional SN instruments that can load into the virtual expansion slots (ethnic tones, and more in the way of brass, winds, acous/elec guitars and bass, brass)

...though there are some other differences that further complicate the comparison, like the Jupiter 50/80 include flugelhorn among the solo brass sounds, whereas on the Integra, that sound appears not in the stock set but in the brass expansion set that you can load into one of the slots.

The description of the ones that can load into the Integra's virtual expansion slots is actually the most clear, because for each one, they tell you straight out how many instruments are included as well as how many tones, a distinction that is generally not made explicit in their other documentation. So for example, expansion set #2 (Session, which is elec. guitar and bass) includes 50 new tones, generated from just 8 new instruments.

So to sum up:

The Jupiter 50/80 have 77 SN acoustic tones, from some less-than-77 number of instrument models.

The Integra-7 has 256 SN acoustic tones, probably from just a few more instruments than the Jupiter 50/80 have, plus an additional 108 SN acoustic tones from another 50 modeled instruments (not all available simultaneously).

The FA has 100 SN acoustic tones (drawn from the 256 in the Integra-7), from what would appear to be some noticeably lesser number of instrument models than either the Integra or Jupiter 50/80.

[anotherscott]

What about Jupiter 80 and Integra-7/FA-6 SN-A sounds.
I looked at the soundlists of both the JP80 and the Integra-7 and see a lot of similar types of instruments, but total different names. Are they in essence the same instruments or are they all different and can't you really compare the two sound wise?

I also notice a discrepancy between the soundlist of the I-7 and the parameter guide, but maybe that's because I miss an important part of understanding in the I7.

Yes, it is confusing. And not, as Balco suggests, because the Jupiters use Live Sets and Registrations vs. Studio Sets... it is confusing to compare just the tones, before they are ever assembled into any of those things!

But as I understand it, before loading anything into a virtual slot, the Integra-7 has all (or at least most) of the SuperNatural Acoustic instruments that the Jupiter 50 and 80 have, and then some. And then the Integra also has the extra SN Acoustic instruments you can load into the slots. But despite having mostly the same SN acoustic instruments (stock, prior to loading the extra ones), the set of tones for those instruments are different in quantity and in name.

One difference that's easy to see is that the tonewheel organ model on the Jupiters is just a single recallable SN Acoustic tone, from which you can create and save whatever variations you want; whereas on the integra, what is probably the same tonewheel organ model yields at 15+ recallable SN Acoustic tones. So on the Integra, Roland seems to have decided to create many more "presets" (recallable tone variations) based on the same underlying supernatural instrument models.

Different names add to the confusion. For example, there is a SN Acoustic Piano instrument, which is available in 9 variations (tones 1 through 9) on both the Jupiters and the Integra, yet there is no overlap between the names. Are some of the Integra piano tones identical to those on the Jupiter but with different names? Or are they actually different sonic variations even if generated from the same underlying modeled piano(s)?

To get back to the main topic of the thread, the FA seems to basically have the following SuperNatural Acoustic instrument models (there may be more than one underlying model of some of these, but not necessarily; AFAIK there's no way to tell):

piano
tine EP
reed EP
clav
organ
acoustic bass
electric bass
acoustic guitar
ensemble strings

...all of which are also on the Integra and the Jupiter 50/80 in at least some form, except that the Jupiter lacks the ensemble strings.

In addition to all of those listed above (except ensemble strings), the Jupiter 50/80 also has:

vibes
marimba
harp
sitar
accordions
harmonica
tympani
solo brass (trumpet, trombone, french horn, saxes, etc.)
winds (oboe, bassoon, clarinets, piccolo, flutes)
solo strings (violin, viola, cello)

In addition to those listed above, the Integra-7 also has:

elec guitar
glockenspiel, xylophone, tubular bells, steel drums
choirs
bagpipes

plus the additional SN instruments that can load into the virtual expansion slots (ethnic tones, and more in the way of brass, winds, acous/elec guitars and bass, brass)

...though there are some other differences that further complicate the comparison, like the Jupiter 50/80 include flugelhorn among the solo brass sounds, whereas on the Integra, that sound appears not in the stock set but in the brass expansion set that you can load into one of the slots.

The description of the ones that can load into the Integra's virtual expansion slots is actually the most clear, because for each one, they tell you straight out how many instruments are included as well as how many tones, a distinction that is generally not made explicit in their other documentation. So for example, expansion set #2 (Session, which is elec. guitar and bass) includes 50 new tones, generated from just 8 new instruments.

So to sum up:

The Jupiter 50/80 have 77 SN acoustic tones, from some less-than-77 number of instrument models.

The Integra-7 has 256 SN acoustic tones, probably from just a few more instruments than the Jupiter 50/80 have, plus an additional 108 SN acoustic tones from another 50 modeled instruments (not all available simultaneously).

The FA has 100 SN acoustic tones (drawn from the 256 in the Integra-7), from what would appear to be some noticeably lesser number of instrument models than either the Integra or Jupiter 50/80.

[BalcoDK]

Just an update with SuperNatural Drum INST list:

SN Drum INST
Integra-7/FA (INT):
---------------------------------------

1/1 Studio Kick
2/-- Pop Kick
3/-- Jazz Kick
4/-- Rock Kick
5/2 Studio Kick 2
6/-- Rock Kick 2
7/-- Orch Bass Drum
8/-- Studio Sn
9/-- Studio Sn Rim
10/-- Studio Sn XStk
11/-- Pop Sn
12/-- Pop Sn Rim
13/-- Pop Sn XStk
14/-- Jazz Sn
15/-- Jazz Sn Rim
16/-- Jazz Sn XStk
17/-- Rock Sn
18/-- Rock Sn Rim
19/-- Rock Sn XStk
20/-- Tight Sn
21/-- Tight Sn Rim
22/-- Tight Sn XStk
23/3 Studio Sn 2
24/4 Studio Sn 2 Rim
25/5 Studio Sn 2 XStk
26/-- Rock Sn 2
27/-- Rock Sn 2 Rim
28/-- Rock Sn 2 XStk
29/-- Brush Sn Slap
30/-- Brush Sn Tap
31/-- Brush Sn Slide
32/-- Brush Sn Swirl 1
33/-- Brush Sn Swirl 2
34/6 Snare CrossStk
35/-- Orch Snare
36/-- Orch Snare XStk
37/-- Pop Tom Hi
38/-- Pop Tom Mid
39/-- Pop Tom Flr
40/7 Rock Tom Hi
41/8 Rock Tom Mid
42/9 Rock Tom Floor
43/-- Jazz Tom Hi
44/-- Jazz Tom Mid
45/-- Jazz Tom Floor
46/-- Brush Tom Hi
47/-- Brush Tom Mid
48/-- Brush Tom Floor
49/10 Med HH Close
50/11 Med HH Open
51/12 Med HH Pedal
52/-- Standard HH Cl
53/-- Standard HH Op
54/-- Standard HH Pdl
55/-- Jazz HH Close
56/-- Jazz HH Open
57/-- Jazz HH Pedal
58/-- Brush HH Close
59/-- Brush HH Open
60/13 Standard Rd Edge
61/14 Standard Rd Bell
62/15 Std Rd Edge/Bell
63/-- Medium Ride Edge
64/-- Medium Ride Bell
65/-- Med Rd Edge/Bell
66/16 Flat 18"Ride
67/-- Brush 18"Ride
68/-- Brush 20"Ride
69/17 Standard 16"Cr R
70/18 Standard 16"Cr L
71/-- Standard 18"Cr R
72/-- Standard 18"Cr L
73/19 Jazz 16"Cr R
74/20 Jazz 16"Cr L
75/-- Heavy 18"Cr R
76/-- Heavy 18"Cr L
77/-- Brush 16"Cr R
78/-- Brush 16"Cr L
79/-- Brush 18"Cr R
80/-- Brush 18"Cr L
81/-- Splash Cymbal 1
82/21 Splash Cymbal 2
83/-- Brush Splash Cym
84/22 China Cymbal
85/-- Orch Cymbal
86/-- Orch Mallet Cym
87/-- Gong
88/-- Timpani F2
89/-- Timpani F#2
90/-- Timpani G2
91/-- Timpani G#2
92/-- Timpani A2
93/-- Timpani A#2
94/-- Timpani B2
95/-- Timpani C3
96/-- Timpani C#3
97/-- Timpani D3
98/-- Timpani D#3
99/-- Timpani E3
100/-- Timpani F3
101/23 Tambourine 1
102/-- Tambourine 2
103/24 Cowbell 1
104/-- Cowbell 2
105/25 Vibra-slap
106/26 High Bongo 1
107/27 Low Bongo 1
108/-- High Bongo 2
109/-- Low Bongo 2
110/28 MuteHi Conga 1
111/29 OpenHi Conga 1
112/30 Low Conga 1
113/-- MuteHi Conga 2
114/-- OpenHi Conga 2
115/-- Low Conga 2
116/31 High Timbale
117/32 Low Timbale
118/33 High Agogo 1
119/34 Low Agogo 1
120/-- High Agogo 2
121/-- Low Agogo 2
122/35 Cabasa 1
123/-- Cabasa 2
124/36 Maracas 1
125/-- Maracas 2
126/37 Short Whistle
127/38 Long Whistle
128/39 Short Guiro
129/40 Long Guiro
130/41 Claves 1
131/-- Claves 2
132/42 Hi WoodBlock 1
133/43 Low WoodBlock 1
134/-- Hi WoodBlock 2
135/-- Low WoodBlock 2
136/44 Mute Cuica 1
137/45 Open Cuica 1
138/-- Mute Cuica 2
139/-- Open Cuica 2
140/46 Mute Triangle 1
141/47 Open Triangle 1
142/-- Mute Triangle 2
143/-- Open Triangle 2
144/48 Shaker
145/49 Sleigh Bell 1
146/-- Sleigh Bell 2
147/50 Wind Chimes
148/51 Castanets 1
149/-- Castanets 2
150/52 Mute Surdo 1
151/53 Open Surdo 1
152/-- Mute Surdo 2
153/-- Open Surdo 2
154/-- Sticks
155/54 Square Click
156/55 Metro Click
157/56 Metro Bell
158/-- Hand Clap
159/57 High Q
160/58 Slap
161/59 Scratch Push
162/60 Scratch Pull
163/-- Gt Fret Noise
164/-- Gt Cutting Up Nz
165/-- Gt Cutting Dw Nz
166/-- AcBass Noise
167/-- Flute Key Click
168/61 Applause


-- Missing on FA/06 and FA/08

Only Integra-7:
----------------------------------
ExSN6 1 Laughing 1
ExSN6 2 Laughing 2
ExSN6 3 Laughing 3
ExSN6 4 Scream 1
ExSN6 5 Scream 2
ExSN6 6 Scream 3
ExSN6 7 Punch 1
ExSN6 8 Punch 2
ExSN6 9 Punch 3
ExSN6 10 Heart Beat 1
ExSN6 11 Heart Beat 2
ExSN6 12 Heart Beat 3
ExSN6 13 Foot Steps 1
ExSN6 14 Foot Steps 2
ExSN6 15 Foot Steps 3
ExSN6 16 Foot Step 1 A
ExSN6 17 Foot Step 1 B
ExSN6 18 Foot Step 2 A
ExSN6 19 Foot Step 2 B
ExSN6 20 Foot Step 3 A
ExSN6 21 Foot Step 3 B
ExSN6 22 Door Creaking 1
ExSN6 23 Door Creaking 2
ExSN6 24 Door Creaking 3
ExSN6 25 Door Slam 1
ExSN6 26 Door Slam 2
ExSN6 27 Door Slam 3
ExSN6 28 Scratch
ExSN6 29 MetalScratch
ExSN6 30 Matches
ExSN6 31 Car Engine 1
ExSN6 32 Car Engine 2
ExSN6 33 Car Engine 3
ExSN6 34 Car Stop 1 L>R
ExSN6 35 Car Stop 1 R>L
ExSN6 36 Car Stop 2 L>R
ExSN6 37 Car Stop 2 R>L
ExSN6 38 Car Stop 3 L>R
ExSN6 39 Car Stop 3 R>L
ExSN6 40 CarPassing 1 L>R
ExSN6 41 CarPassing 1 R>L
ExSN6 42 CarPassing 2 L>R
ExSN6 43 CarPassing 2 R>L
ExSN6 44 CarPassing 3 L>R
ExSN6 45 CarPassing 3 R>L
ExSN6 46 CarPassing 4
ExSN6 47 CarPassing 5
ExSN6 48 CarPassing 6
ExSN6 49 Car Crash 1 L>R
ExSN6 50 Car Crash 1 R>L
ExSN6 51 Car Crash 2 L>R
ExSN6 52 Car Crash 2 R>L
ExSN6 53 Car Crash 3 L>R
ExSN6 54 Car Crash 3 R>L
ExSN6 55 Crash 1
ExSN6 56 Crash 2
ExSN6 57 Crash 3
ExSN6 58 Siren 1
ExSN6 59 Siren 2 L>R
ExSN6 60 Siren 2 R>L
ExSN6 61 Siren 3
ExSN6 62 Train 1
ExSN6 63 Train 2
ExSN6 64 Jetplane 1 L>R
ExSN6 65 Jetplane 1 R>L
ExSN6 66 Jetplane 2 L>R
ExSN6 67 Jetplane 2 R>L
ExSN6 68 Jetplane 3 L>R
ExSN6 69 Jetplane 3 R>L
ExSN6 70 Helicopter 1 L
ExSN6 71 Helicopter 1 R
ExSN6 72 Helicopter 2 L
ExSN6 73 Helicopter 2 R
ExSN6 74 Helicopter 3 L
ExSN6 75 Helicopter 3 R
ExSN6 76 Starship 1 L>R
ExSN6 77 Starship 1 R>L
ExSN6 78 Starship 2 L>R
ExSN6 79 Starship 2 R>L
ExSN6 80 Starship 3 L>R
ExSN6 81 Starship 3 R>L
ExSN6 82 Gun Shot 1
ExSN6 83 Gun Shot 2
ExSN6 84 Gun Shot 3
ExSN6 85 Machine Gun 1
ExSN6 86 Machine Gun 2
ExSN6 87 Machine Gun 3
ExSN6 88 Laser Gun 1
ExSN6 89 Laser Gun 2
ExSN6 90 Laser Gun 3
ExSN6 91 Explosion 1
ExSN6 92 Explosion 2
ExSN6 93 Explosion 3
ExSN6 94 Dog 1
ExSN6 95 Dog 2
ExSN6 96 Dog 3
ExSN6 97 Dog 4
ExSN6 98 Horse 1 L>R
ExSN6 99 Horse 1 R>L
ExSN6 100 Horse 2 L>R
ExSN6 101 Horse 2 R>L
ExSN6 102 Horse 3 L>R
ExSN6 103 Horse 3 R>L
ExSN6 104 Birds 1
ExSN6 105 Birds 2
ExSN6 106 Rain 1
ExSN6 107 Rain 2
ExSN6 108 Thunder 1
ExSN6 109 Thunder 2
ExSN6 110 Thunder 3
ExSN6 111 Wind
ExSN6 112 Seashore
ExSN6 113 Stream 1
ExSN6 114 Stream 2
ExSN6 115 Bubbles 1
ExSN6 116 Bubbles 2
ExSN6 117 Burst 1
ExSN6 118 Burst 2
ExSN6 119 Burst 3
ExSN6 120 Burst 4
ExSN6 121 Glass Burst 1
ExSN6 122 Glass Burst 2
ExSN6 123 Glass Burst 3
ExSN6 124 Telephone 1
ExSN6 125 Telephone 2
ExSN6 126 Telephone 3

[synthguy99]

In particular, this thread is making me want an Integra. Maybe with an FA, maybe with a Jupiter, I'm still pondering. The sequencer on the FA looks to be the boss though, so I might swing that way. But it's essential that I get all those SN Acoustic sounds to play with and use in my compositions, so at some point, I have to have that big box.