Rhythm Patterns ONLY 20 User sets!!!

[technobob13]

(Originally posted in Questions about the FA-08 topic)

Hi all

Having played with my FA-06 over the weekend I can say this - the Rhythm Pattern mode gives you 59 Preset Rhythm Sets - these are groups of 6 old style drum machine patterns, so you actually have 59 x 6 patterns = 354 patterns BUT THEY CAN ONLY BE CALLED UP BY RHYTHM SET, NOT INDIVIDUALLY. These are presets so cannot be modified. However, there are 20 User Rhythm Sets (120 separate patterns, but only selectable from the 20 sets!) so you can either:

1. edit a preset pattern and save it in a user pattern
2. create a new pattern in step edit grid mode
3. import from a song, allowing building up a pattern in realtime in the sequencer and importing it into a user drum pattern
4. import from a MIDI (SMF) file

RANT ON!!!!!!!!!

I must say I am very disappointed with the very small amount of user pattern locations! Imagine, I can have up to 999 songs on an SD card, but I only have 512 Studio Sets to use with those, and even worse, I only have 20 Rhythm Pattern sets to choose from for those. What is the point of having many drum kit sounds to choose from for only 20 rhythm sets! Imagine buying a quality drum machine with fantastic sounds but only enough room to save 20 of your own patterns!!

This will only get worse as new EXP wave packs with MORE drum kits and sounds are made available on Axial, with no patterns left in the FA-06 to store them!!!!

I can't understand why Roland have done this, as Korg have always allowed for up to 100 patterns to be stored with each song in their workstations, so you always have space for creating new patterns PER SONG!!!

Unless I have missed something, like Rhythm Pattern groups being saved in Studio Sets or songs and then loaded in when a Studio Set or song is loaded, then I have 2 days to decide whether I am going to send the FA-06 back as this is a MASSIVE disappointment!

RANT OFF!!!!!!!!!

[Spo Elman]

This problem doesn't bother me at all.. The way I see it i have a lot of good drum sounds i can use in my DAW...

[Enfurio]

technobob13, you are perfectly right. it`s ridiculous! i was VERY stunned to find out we have only 20 user pattern sets. i can`t even believe it and still think i`m overlooking something... Do i?

I work with about 400 songs that i do as a piano entertainer. i`m relying on backing drums. The preset drum patterns are not really usefull and i have to be "lucky" that they fit a certain song. I did not even bother looking at the amount of user slots availeble when i was researching to buy the FA or not. It would not ever cross my mind to check this...

You know, this machine is so good for the price that Roland stripped this rhythm pattern section (and sampler) to a bare minimum. They could potentially destroy their own keyboard market. Who wants to buy a BK-9 when the FA would had an advanced rhythm pattern section? There are so many good things to say about this machine, but having to buy a additional rhythm box for solo gigs is not something i`m looking forward too...

[cello]

Maybe I'm not understanding the 20 user slots thing (please forgive me if so) - but if I select an ending or intro (or whatever) I see 120 user slots available?

[Enfurio]

Maybe I'm not understanding the 20 user slots thing (please forgive me if so) - but if I select an ending or intro (or whatever) I see 120 user slots available?

What you refer too are individual midi drum patterns. i was talking about clusters (intro, verse1, fillin1 etc.). 120 individual patterns makes sense because you have only 20 user banks with clusters (+ 56 preset banks) and 6 patterns can be loaded in one single bank. 6x 20 = 120

[JPWC]

while not enough to have a complete library, there should be enough for most live performance settings, song are usually 3 to 20 minutes, should provide for an hour+ show.

Seems you need to divide your songs into sets.

[Enfurio]

If a song only needs one beat and you don`t really need a fill-in, you can make a sample loop out of it and trigger it on a sample pad. In a live situation triggering different samples for each song for me is asking for trouble. I want to mute the sample that is playing automaticly as soon i trigger a new sample. As far as i know, this is not possible if you don`t push them both at the same time.. You just need to be very selective to use up your user pattern banks.

I just finished programming 38 songs which only one of them uses a custom made user pattern bank. The rest i could do with samples or preset pattern banks. Still i have 350 songs to go....

[bennyseven]

Enfurio, maybe a typical entertainer keyboard is a better choice for you. Did you consider that? Like the Roland BK or Yamaha PSR or Korg PA style keyboards.
FA is a studio and live perfoming board.
On the other hand, if you have 350 songs, which require individual drum patterns/tracks, and you are not a free jammin' player, you can program (or midi download) the drums for the sequencer.
Cheers,
BennySeven

[Enfurio]

Enfurio, maybe a typical entertainer keyboard is a better choice for you. Did you consider that? Like the Roland BK or Yamaha PSR or Korg PA style keyboards.
FA is a studio and live perfoming board.
On the other hand, if you have 350 songs, which require individual drum patterns/tracks, and you are not a free jammin' player, you can program (or midi download) the drums for the sequencer.
Cheers,
BennySeven

Yes, i considered that. In fact it took me a few months to findout what would fit my needs best. My colleques all use a (entertainer) keyboard but i wanted more flexibility a workstation could give me. The FA gives me more stacking/programming/realtime control capabilities and contains a sampler and rhythm player as well. This machine can set me apart from most other entertainers when programmed right. Unfortunately after seeing how many user slots there where for tones and studio sets i neglect to look at the pattern user slots. Still i do not regret buying the FA.

[nodog]

I just had to find a good place to complain about the rhythm pattern editor.

WOW, IT'S A TERRIBLE EXPERIENCE!

I just dug into it today, and I was astounded at how bad it is. I don't really use the rhythms for much more than playing scales or practicing licks or my part of a song on top, so it's not a huge problem for me. I wanted to be able to create a few of my own, though, but I definitely won't do it starting with the rhythm pattern editor.

For those who haven't dived in, you set the parameters (including velocity) of the note in one place, then you go to the note location on a grid, then you toggle the note on using ENTER, INC, or the wheel, and it is given the note parameters you set in the first location (at least they are displayed on the screen). However, the note parameters of any previously placed note are never displayed anywhere, so if you've gone and changed the note parameters to put in a new snare hit, you better have written down the bass drum, high hat, accent, etc. parameters you used earlier so you can duplicate them later.

My only plan to design a rhythm pattern at this point is to go use my DAW to create it, then copy the parameters into the rhythm pattern using the pattern editor BY HAND, because as far as I can tell there is no other way to get it in there.

Gross!

(But like with many other of its flaws, I'd still buy the FA-08 again. :)

[nodog]

Okay, in response to my complaint yesterday about the rhythm pattern editor, I have to say that the ease with which one can import an SMF file as a rhythm pattern kind of makes up for any pain I had in the pattern editor. Really, a DAW is what you want to write anything complex on anyway.

So, yay, at least for easy import.