FA-08 vs Juno-DS88

[mo2cv]

Hello friends,

I am a casual keyboard player with previous experience mainly from classical piano playing. When I was lucky enough to get asked to join a band earlier this year I got myself a VR-09, which I like a lot.

We're going to play mostly cover songs in the AOR spectre, and I am looking to expand my gear and thinking 88 keys weighted action.
At my local music stores they only want to sell med things that are painted red, and while I am sure they are great instruments, I feel they are not what I'm looking for. Maybe I lack the experience and tradition from old analog organs and synths, but I would feel most comfortable with a large bank of decent enough sounds to be able to quickly find and replicate the keyboard parts of the songs we're playing.

As DS88 is starting to arrive at the stores, I am curious to learn the differences between FA-08 and the DS88. Will the extra ~500 EUR for FA-08 be worth it, or should I save my money and go for the DS88?

So far, I have spotted the following advantages:

FA-08:
- Better display (?)
- More sounds, although those at the music store say they are not that great (?)
- Sub channel output
- Better workstation features

DS88:
- Newer model (don't know if that matters)
- Mic input
- cheaper

It seems to me that the Juno is more gig oriented, but I am confused abot whether that means the FA-08 is less suitable for live playing.

I would really appreciate if anyone with experience from these boards, or gigging in general could guide me a little bit here. Is one better than the other for my use, or even; do the people at the music store have a point when they are saying that the world has moved on without Roland, and that I should save up for whatever they want to sell me?

Thanks,

Mo

[Español]

The DS88 has absolutely no advantage over the FA.
The FA also has microphone input.
The FA is well above the DS88 and even Juno Gi is greater than the DS88.
The DS88 is Juno Di above and below the Juno Gi.
The DS88 is a new model but the FA is a keyboard just two years old, so highly recommend that you buy the FA-08 I recommend.

Regards.

[cello]

Sounds like you're being bullied by your store staff!

The red keyboards are good but they're more expensive which is clearly what your store wants you to get cos they make more money. Also selling new Roland gear might be beneficial to them too.

You need to go with what works with you - not the store.

The FA is far superior to the DS and is more likely to serve you for a long time. The FA represent a lot of bang for buck and if I was choosing between the two, FA would win every time.

[nathbeadle]

I would agree, FA for the win

Also, don't ever listen to someone who says "the sounds are not that great". Okay, well don't JUST take their opinion. Everyone has a different taste for what they like and for someone to say the FA doesn't have great sounds compared to xxx keyboard is just their personal opinion. You'll find people who love the FA sounds, people who don't and lots in between.

ALWAYS try a keyboard out before you buy it. You might love a sound someone else hates or vice versa :)

[mo2cv]

Hi all,

Thank you for your excellent answers. I guess it's a good reason for why I was a bit confused as to what the DS88 is bringing to town when all you get is something with less features and no improvements in any area, for not that much less money.
I'll try to get some quality time with a FA in the music store, before hopefully adding it to my xmas list :)

[kimu]

to me the choice depends more on what you really need and what you don't.

do you need advanced workstation feature, i.e. mainly the 16 tracks MIDI sequencer?
or do you prefer to have a easy to use on board song player for practice ?

do you plan to have backing tracks and needs click out to the drummer or you play always live part and triggering intro/break/outro loops from pads is enough ?

regarding sounds, FA should be better since it uses supernatural sounds for acoustic, synth and drum patches, but often it is just a matter of personal taste. futher for sure FA offers more FX than DS, but maybe you are a programming-man and are ok with preset.

[Edibledawg]

https://youtu.be/1rZ3tarBUwA

I think this is a nice example of a jazz trio using FA-08 in a live setting.
Also these other two from the same band. https://youtu.be/3NMFRQNR49o https://youtu.be/6QJ_5I9Fbog

[Emmerson]

I have the FA-08.
The weighted keys are amazing, the sounds are great and easy to customise.
Layering the sounds is great and easy to do.
The display is good too.
I use mine live too and find it easy to dial in sounds.
It is quiet heavy though
I've looked at the DS and to me it looks like a newer version of my Juno Stage.

[SizZleR]

The DS88 has absolutely no advantage over the FA.

Juno-DS has a pattern sequencer rather than a linear sequencer, but whether that's an advantage or not depends on the users needs. :-)

The FA also has microphone input.

So does the Juno-DS, it even has a gain knob for it like the one you find on a GW-8.
Besides the Mic input, the Juno-DS also has Ext input.

Juno Gi is greater than the DS88.

Yes and no, the Gi is more a mix of workstation / synthesizer while the DS is a performance synthesizer.

Gi vs DS:
Recording: 8-track digital | 8-track pattern sequencer.
MFX engines : 2 | 3
Liveset (4 layers) | Super Layer (up to 16 layers)
Patches (incl GM2): 1044 | >1200

Also the DS features:
- A (very good) Vocoder and Pitch corrector
- A sampler that will let you build your own sample patches and play them back on the keyboard.
- Sound expansions from Roland Axial website (expansions include both patches and waveforms)

Those are just a few side-by-side comparisons, if you really dig into it, more could be added to the list, but none of it looks to me like the Gi is outperforming the DS; Unless the 8-track digital recorder is the deciding factor ofc. ;-)

The DS88 is a new model but the FA is a keyboard just two years old, so highly recommend that you buy the FA-08 I recommend.

Theyre two different products, the FA is a workstation and the DS is performance synthesizer.
But you could see the FA as a big brother to the DS in the sense, that it has more of everything that the DS has and a linear sequencer rather than a pattern sequencer.

To me it looks like they derived the features of the DS from the FA and then made this pattern sequencer for the DS as its a more "performance" oriented feature than a linear sequencer with wav export.

However, the pattern sequencer doesn't make much sense to me by the way it works.
I was expecting / hoping for something along the lines of the pattern sequencer we know from products as RB-338.

It's nothing of the kind. :-(
It has (up to) 8 measures per pattern and you cant set these to play in a specific order, apart from manually switching between them using the dial.
Also it lacks a step recorder/sequencer.

So, it works well for doing short demos in videos and may be used as a "musical" notepad where you can quickly store that idea of a baseline pattern than just jumped into your mind.

But it wont aid you in an easy way, to create full songs.
Also, when you go into pattern sequencer mode, you have no access to the rest of the keyboard parts, you'd have to exit sequencer mode and hence itll stop playing.

So I'd go for the FA as well and im actually doing so by returning the DS61 I bought a few days ago, and have the FA-06 instead.

[PauloF]

Hello friends,

I am a casual keyboard player with previous experience mainly from classical piano playing. When I was lucky enough to get asked to join a band earlier this year I got myself a VR-09, which I like a lot.

We're going to play mostly cover songs in the AOR spectre, and I am looking to expand my gear and thinking 88 keys weighted action.
At my local music stores they only want to sell med things that are painted red, and while I am sure they are great instruments, I feel they are not what I'm looking for. Maybe I lack the experience and tradition from old analog organs and synths, but I would feel most comfortable with a large bank of decent enough sounds to be able to quickly find and replicate the keyboard parts of the songs we're playing.

As DS88 is starting to arrive at the stores, I am curious to learn the differences between FA-08 and the DS88. Will the extra ~500 EUR for FA-08 be worth it, or should I save my money and go for the DS88?

So far, I have spotted the following advantages:

FA-08:
- Better display (?)
- More sounds, although those at the music store say they are not that great (?)
- Sub channel output
- Better workstation features

DS88:
- Newer model (don't know if that matters)
- Mic input
- cheaper

It seems to me that the Juno is more gig oriented, but I am confused abot whether that means the FA-08 is less suitable for live playing.

I would really appreciate if anyone with experience from these boards, or gigging in general could guide me a little bit here. Is one better than the other for my use, or even; do the people at the music store have a point when they are saying that the world has moved on without Roland, and that I should save up for whatever they want to sell me?

Thanks,

Mo

Welcome to the Clan Mo2cv!

In my opinion there are many advantages on the FA versus the DS, and almost all were referred by the other Clan members, but there is one of them that kills the competition (for me): - The SuperNatural-Acoustic Sounds that the DS does not have.

[flyingace]

Good point Paulo! Now if only they made a 76 key version (using the jupiter/stage key bed) of the FA, I'd own one!

[PauloF]

Good point Paulo! Now if only they made a 76 key version (using the jupiter/stage key bed) of the FA, I'd own one!

Despite I have an Integra-7, I was also considering a FA for the Performance reasons only, but as we can´t have everything, for the time being a JD-Xi will do the trick :)

[bill555]

The DS88 has absolutely no advantage over the FA.

On the contrary, it has at least one, and it's a biggie: cost. :)

do you need advanced workstation feature, i.e. mainly the 16 tracks MIDI sequencer?
or do you prefer to have a easy to use on board song player for practice ?

? They both have sequencers FYI, though of course the DS88's is not as good as the 08's.

regarding sounds, FA should be better since it uses supernatural sounds for acoustic, synth and drum patches, but often it is just a matter of personal taste.

Agreed....or more to the point, how much better the SN sounds really sound/feel to someone over the DS88's.

This is not a question of which is better. This is a question of whether the 08's extra features are worth the considerably significant diff in cost. Still debating that one myself.

it works well for doing short demos in videos and may be used as a "musical" notepad where you can quickly store that idea of a baseline pattern than just jumped into your mind.

But it wont aid you in an easy way, to create full songs.

? I'm curious: why? What's "hard" about it?

[Hermax]

That all depends of what you call "a song".
For me, it is still an old fashioned structure like intro, verse, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus, chorus, outro. (of course other combinations are possible).
That is something that is not "nice" to program into the pattern sequencer of the DS. It is possible, yes, but harder to do than with a "normal" linear sequencer.
For people who consider a song like loops that come up and disappear, it's less hard to do :-)

[Skijumptoes]

I also find the most limiting factor in the sequencer (FA i'm talking here) is that you can't zoom out, i.e. you're restricted to about 8 bars max at any one time, and rather than the display scrolling, it jumps pages between which bars are being shown.

That doesn't sound so bad, but the trouble is, it jumps from the first page which is bars 1 to 8 (Great!) Then the second page will be 7-14 (Eh?) So no longer do you get the same clear 8 bar view that you started with, as you get deeper into a song this just becomes so confusing for me. Why if it had to jump, could they not make it go 1-8, 9-16, 17-24 etc.

If they just had a zoom out function where populated bars were symbolised with dots or something, and you have a great overall 16/32 bar view - it would be so much easier, drop the mute/solo buttons in that view, remove some of the other stuff and you have most of the screen to play with. bah!

What's most annoying is that even if you only put one note in a bar, the whole bar will be filled on the display anyway, so there's no advantage to the view being so zoomed in, to my mind?!

It would be easier to copy/paste, edit, move song position, see your song as a whole to manage - all these good things.

Other than that the sequencer is great, it has most of the functions you need... It's just the way it's so compressed into short 8 bar sections just makes you work in a compressed manner, so it's not great for larger compositions.