Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
Hi guys, first post here. I'm wondering if you could tell me when it comes to the sequencer on the fa-06 and the fantom x, are they basically the same? when it comes to midi only. Not concerned about audio, just midi. Is one better than the other or more feature rich, ease of use ect.......? Thanks very much :)
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bennyseven
- Posts: 699
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- Location: Germany
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
I worked with both sequencer and from my point of view they are the same. Data display, data filtering an microscope is the same. Although FA is a new system development.
There is one bug in the FA sequencer/track parameter. Track routing to INT/EXT/BOTH is not working as selected. It is always BOTH. There are work arounds for this.
There is one bug in the FA sequencer/track parameter. Track routing to INT/EXT/BOTH is not working as selected. It is always BOTH. There are work arounds for this.
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
bennyseven wrote:I worked with both sequencer and from my point of view they are the same. Data display, data filtering an microscope is the same. Although FA is a new system development.
There is one bug in the FA sequencer/track parameter. Track routing to INT/EXT/BOTH is not working as selected. It is always BOTH. There are work arounds for this.
Hi, thanks for the reply. What are the work arounds for that? Being able to sequence external synths is important to me. Thanks
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
Thanks, that sounds like it will work. Is there any other work arounds or is muting the internal track the only way to make this work?
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
I'd strongly suggest avoiding Roland if external midi is your game... Their functionality is terrible for controlling external midi (can't even pitch shift parts to make it useable on a single keybed...). I've tried loads of Roland gear to try and control multiple synths and everything fails - they just never combine all the features into 1 machine that makes it actually useful. Do yourself a favour and buy a Kurzweil PC3LE - it has all the functionality, the only downside is the screen is crap in comparison. Be aware that no Roland manual will tell you what a controller can't do, and never extrapolate features from a manuals description expecting it to be there - it probably isn't if it isn't specifically mentioned, no matter how logical it seems.
Trust me... I spent thousands learning this out the hard way! (I use only hardware synths. no computer in my setup). If you can be really specific about features you need then I can let you know if the FA will do what you want.
Trust me... I spent thousands learning this out the hard way! (I use only hardware synths. no computer in my setup). If you can be really specific about features you need then I can let you know if the FA will do what you want.
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
Myrk- wrote:I'd strongly suggest avoiding Roland if external midi is your game... Their functionality is terrible for controlling external midi (can't even pitch shift parts to make it useable on a single keybed...). I've tried loads of Roland gear to try and control multiple synths and everything fails - they just never combine all the features into 1 machine that makes it actually useful. Do yourself a favour and buy a Kurzweil PC3LE - it has all the functionality, the only downside is the screen is crap in comparison. Be aware that no Roland manual will tell you what a controller can't do, and never extrapolate features from a manuals description expecting it to be there - it probably isn't if it isn't specifically mentioned, no matter how logical it seems.
Trust me... I spent thousands learning this out the hard way! (I use only hardware synths. no computer in my setup). If you can be really specific about features you need then I can let you know if the FA will do what you want.
I really just need the midi sequencing. Notes and control changes are all i need. mixing, fx, eq;s ect...are all outboard so i just need a tight midi sequencer with some good internal sounds. I few other options i have considered are the korg m3 or maybe a moxf from yammy. What are your thoughts?
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
OK well - your options are to mute the track, make an empty tone, or turn the fader for the track down, that you want to use for external gear.Worsaw wrote:
Thanks, that sounds like it will work. Is there any other work arounds or is muting the internal track the only way to make this work?
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Skijumptoes
- Posts: 681
- Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
VERY similar to the Fantom X in terms of sequencing.
As Myrk alludes to, the external midi support isn't 100% - i've never had problems but i'm lucky in that i just need to sequence to external modules, without additional layering provided by the FA, likewise, any transposition i would have set up in the slave module too, or it would just be standard drum mappings.
I had a Korg M50, and the M3 is a step up from that and has KARMA, if that's your thing is really good fun! - and the M50 was fantastic for sequencing in my opinion.
And before the FA, i had a MOXF for a while (2 weeks-ish), and i didn't get on with it as well as the FA. The screen is just too small and doesn't hold enough detail for my liking. However, to offset that you do get more dedicated buttons for performance modes and the looping modes and arp's kick the FA into the ground.
Curious what internal sounds you're looking for too? FA is very strong with it's synth sounds, piano and EP's, MOXF very good for more traditional character on strings etc. Also, the Arp options on the MOXF is stunning, particularly when you can have different arps on different parts - i must admit to yearning for those on the FA, as there's days when i just want to have fun and play freestyle with no reason!
As Myrk alludes to, the external midi support isn't 100% - i've never had problems but i'm lucky in that i just need to sequence to external modules, without additional layering provided by the FA, likewise, any transposition i would have set up in the slave module too, or it would just be standard drum mappings.
I had a Korg M50, and the M3 is a step up from that and has KARMA, if that's your thing is really good fun! - and the M50 was fantastic for sequencing in my opinion.
And before the FA, i had a MOXF for a while (2 weeks-ish), and i didn't get on with it as well as the FA. The screen is just too small and doesn't hold enough detail for my liking. However, to offset that you do get more dedicated buttons for performance modes and the looping modes and arp's kick the FA into the ground.
Curious what internal sounds you're looking for too? FA is very strong with it's synth sounds, piano and EP's, MOXF very good for more traditional character on strings etc. Also, the Arp options on the MOXF is stunning, particularly when you can have different arps on different parts - i must admit to yearning for those on the FA, as there's days when i just want to have fun and play freestyle with no reason!
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
Just good bread and butter workstation sounds. Good drums are a plus too. The midi sequencer is the priority and i like the korg has their sequencers laid out. I'm looking at the korg krome now which seems to be the updated m50. Any thoughts on the krome?Skijumptoes wrote:VERY similar to the Fantom X in terms of sequencing.
As Myrk alludes to, the external midi support isn't 100% - i've never had problems but i'm lucky in that i just need to sequence to external modules, without additional layering provided by the FA, likewise, any transposition i would have set up in the slave module too, or it would just be standard drum mappings.
I had a Korg M50, and the M3 is a step up from that and has KARMA, if that's your thing is really good fun! - and the M50 was fantastic for sequencing in my opinion.
And before the FA, i had a MOXF for a while (2 weeks-ish), and i didn't get on with it as well as the FA. The screen is just too small and doesn't hold enough detail for my liking. However, to offset that you do get more dedicated buttons for performance modes and the looping modes and arp's kick the FA into the ground.
Curious what internal sounds you're looking for too? FA is very strong with it's synth sounds, piano and EP's, MOXF very good for more traditional character on strings etc. Also, the Arp options on the MOXF is stunning, particularly when you can have different arps on different parts - i must admit to yearning for those on the FA, as there's days when i just want to have fun and play freestyle with no reason!
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Skijumptoes
- Posts: 681
- Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
I thought the Krome was terrible if i'm honest - but that wasn't from a sequencer viewpoint as i didn't even try that - i just hated it when i tried one, none of the sounds really lit me up, it felt sterile and the keys just didn't seem right, however - i was only able to try it out in our local shop a few times and they never had it plugged into the speakers like they did the FA's and MOXF's - so was running on crappy headphones. So hard to judge.
I got the MOXF based on the shop demo and sales assistance personal preference, i then swapped over to an FA a few weeks after - and while i'd love to be able to mix the FA and MOXF into one, i'm glad i stuck with the FA as i'm using the SN-S (Supernatural Synth) engine a great deal more than i ever anticipated.
As for the Krome - I didn't even realise it was the successor to the M50 if i'm honest, if i knew that i would have give it a better chance, but totally dismissed it based on first use thinking it was a half-baked Kronos-lite type keyboard. Whereas the MOXF and FA made me physically smile when i first tried them, the Krome done nothing for me.
If sequencer is priority and you're running external gear then i would have to say even the Korg M50 wins out against the FA in that category, so the Krome should technically be a step further than that - that's all i can say. Damn, i really wish i demo'd the Krome better now, or at least asked them to hook it up to speakers for me.
The FA is an absolute retro heaven for synth sounds, it's a beast in that regard, i also think the EP's are wonderful, the acoustic pianos are perfect for compositions and the drums are very solid. You also don't lose anything when taking a patch to performance/song mode as it has MFX for each part plus additional EQ and Compression channels for Part 10 (Drums), It's also a fantastic accompaniment to using a DAW (The rotaries have many pages of CC assignments for example).
Basically, it's superb for carving out 1-2 minute song ideas which you can take to the DAW session later, but as a standalone workstation for complete song creation, not so hot.
Add external gear into the mix and it's a case of flipping a coin on whether it works for you or not, there's some silly quirks in there which may become a big bugbear, or you may never notice! (See Myrk's posts for example!).
The FA is perfect for me, my only fear is the day that Roland drop support on the audio driver front (Which they will do, as is Roland's way) - i don't use the audio interface on it a great deal, but it's nice to just work from a laptop and USB cable and be able to put my guitar/mic through it for rough ideas straight into Logic.
Are you able to demo the Korg Krome at a local store etc? I'm tempted to give it another play this weekend now! :)
As it stands i would buy an FA everytime, i absolutely adore mine! :-)
I got the MOXF based on the shop demo and sales assistance personal preference, i then swapped over to an FA a few weeks after - and while i'd love to be able to mix the FA and MOXF into one, i'm glad i stuck with the FA as i'm using the SN-S (Supernatural Synth) engine a great deal more than i ever anticipated.
As for the Krome - I didn't even realise it was the successor to the M50 if i'm honest, if i knew that i would have give it a better chance, but totally dismissed it based on first use thinking it was a half-baked Kronos-lite type keyboard. Whereas the MOXF and FA made me physically smile when i first tried them, the Krome done nothing for me.
If sequencer is priority and you're running external gear then i would have to say even the Korg M50 wins out against the FA in that category, so the Krome should technically be a step further than that - that's all i can say. Damn, i really wish i demo'd the Krome better now, or at least asked them to hook it up to speakers for me.
The FA is an absolute retro heaven for synth sounds, it's a beast in that regard, i also think the EP's are wonderful, the acoustic pianos are perfect for compositions and the drums are very solid. You also don't lose anything when taking a patch to performance/song mode as it has MFX for each part plus additional EQ and Compression channels for Part 10 (Drums), It's also a fantastic accompaniment to using a DAW (The rotaries have many pages of CC assignments for example).
Basically, it's superb for carving out 1-2 minute song ideas which you can take to the DAW session later, but as a standalone workstation for complete song creation, not so hot.
Add external gear into the mix and it's a case of flipping a coin on whether it works for you or not, there's some silly quirks in there which may become a big bugbear, or you may never notice! (See Myrk's posts for example!).
The FA is perfect for me, my only fear is the day that Roland drop support on the audio driver front (Which they will do, as is Roland's way) - i don't use the audio interface on it a great deal, but it's nice to just work from a laptop and USB cable and be able to put my guitar/mic through it for rough ideas straight into Logic.
Are you able to demo the Korg Krome at a local store etc? I'm tempted to give it another play this weekend now! :)
As it stands i would buy an FA everytime, i absolutely adore mine! :-)
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
Yer, I'd say if midi sequencing straight up pre-recorded stuff is your game then the FA is a good choice. I had some minor midi issues when using pre-made midi files loaded on the FA and triggering external modules - my drums wouldn't be in the right timing. I tried everything under the sun for both the TR-8 and the FA and never got it right. However drums I programmed on the FA to trigger the TR-8 were fine, so clearly it was an FA midi playback issue - not surprising given the lack of focus in this area.
If however your looking for a performance keyboard controller for your external gear then definitely avoid the FA. You cannot split your keyboard and pitch shift your sounds, which is kinda a big deal if you want a master keyboard and use hardware synths.
I recently bought a Kurzweil PC3LE7 to do these functions, as it also has 16 arpeggiators, riff buttons, codable switches and sliders and buttons, the works. It's also better build quality than any Roland product out there (but heavy at 17kg). It's also cheaper than the FA (if you buy it from Poland or Slovakia haha). However the UI in Roland products is unparalleled - the FA has such a nice screen and the sequencer is quite friendly. I'm happy I found the Kurzweil in the end, but despite that I'm still keeping my FA as a doodle pad for music in my living room. I have a real love/hate relationship with the FA :P
If however your looking for a performance keyboard controller for your external gear then definitely avoid the FA. You cannot split your keyboard and pitch shift your sounds, which is kinda a big deal if you want a master keyboard and use hardware synths.
I recently bought a Kurzweil PC3LE7 to do these functions, as it also has 16 arpeggiators, riff buttons, codable switches and sliders and buttons, the works. It's also better build quality than any Roland product out there (but heavy at 17kg). It's also cheaper than the FA (if you buy it from Poland or Slovakia haha). However the UI in Roland products is unparalleled - the FA has such a nice screen and the sequencer is quite friendly. I'm happy I found the Kurzweil in the end, but despite that I'm still keeping my FA as a doodle pad for music in my living room. I have a real love/hate relationship with the FA :P
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
Yea, looks like ill have to pass on the fa-06. Just to many negatives when it comes to recording external synths. I should be able to test out the Krome and hopefully 1 or 2 others before i make a decision
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
I spent almost a year in this search for the right MKB w/ sequencer, so I feel your pain! You may (like me) be looking for the one ring to rule them all... hahaha
Korg Krome, Yamaha MOXF or the XF (from what I saw the XF was VERY similar to the FA's sequencer and screen, but twice the price), Kurzweil PC3LE. Those should do all the external synth mastery you want. If external synths are your game then you'll have to read the manuals before you buy any of these keyboards to work out if it really will do exactly what you want.
Personally I found the Krome to be horrendous - the UI is stupid and cumbersome. The XF I never got to try in person as it's now discontinued, replaced by that ugly new one - the montage - which does have the plus of rotary encoder LED's - seriously cool for external synth control but does nothing similar to the XF so kinda useless here! The PC3LE I never tried in person, but the manual is a nice big read (very concise), and based off advice from other forums on the net users who had a similar setup to myself all got PC3LE's - considered somewhat overkill but with DAWs and computers being the focus there surprisingly aren't many choices out there for Hardware only setups. You'll notice there are no PC3LEs on ebay - no one sells them second hand because everyone keeps them - a good sign! Another option - if you are good at soldering and want a project there is an open source MKB system out there that lets you assemble features together (http://www.ucapps.de/index.html?page=midibox_kb.html). Another option is the Social Entropy Engine - they are about to go into a new production run after a year wait, so get in there quick if that looks like it does what you want (it has no big screen for editing, but man it's powerful - kinda like a Korg Electribe 2 on steroids!). Actually the korg electribe 2 with a decent midi keyboard plugged in may be the cheapest option.
The question needs to be asked though - are you using a computer in your setup? And are you a live player or strictly in a studio? If you are in a studio on a PC then your options are limitless! I personally would have got a Native Instruments Kontrol if I was using a DAW PC in my setup, as the Kontrol allows you to split the keybed and have different colours cast across the keys for different functions, as well as rotary encoder LED's and sliders which are visually really useful when flicking between which synths you are dealing with. The FA could still be the best choice... it really depends how you intend to make music... if you can fill us in some more :)
Another good topic to check out:
http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewt ... 19&t=81699
Korg Krome, Yamaha MOXF or the XF (from what I saw the XF was VERY similar to the FA's sequencer and screen, but twice the price), Kurzweil PC3LE. Those should do all the external synth mastery you want. If external synths are your game then you'll have to read the manuals before you buy any of these keyboards to work out if it really will do exactly what you want.
Personally I found the Krome to be horrendous - the UI is stupid and cumbersome. The XF I never got to try in person as it's now discontinued, replaced by that ugly new one - the montage - which does have the plus of rotary encoder LED's - seriously cool for external synth control but does nothing similar to the XF so kinda useless here! The PC3LE I never tried in person, but the manual is a nice big read (very concise), and based off advice from other forums on the net users who had a similar setup to myself all got PC3LE's - considered somewhat overkill but with DAWs and computers being the focus there surprisingly aren't many choices out there for Hardware only setups. You'll notice there are no PC3LEs on ebay - no one sells them second hand because everyone keeps them - a good sign! Another option - if you are good at soldering and want a project there is an open source MKB system out there that lets you assemble features together (http://www.ucapps.de/index.html?page=midibox_kb.html). Another option is the Social Entropy Engine - they are about to go into a new production run after a year wait, so get in there quick if that looks like it does what you want (it has no big screen for editing, but man it's powerful - kinda like a Korg Electribe 2 on steroids!). Actually the korg electribe 2 with a decent midi keyboard plugged in may be the cheapest option.
The question needs to be asked though - are you using a computer in your setup? And are you a live player or strictly in a studio? If you are in a studio on a PC then your options are limitless! I personally would have got a Native Instruments Kontrol if I was using a DAW PC in my setup, as the Kontrol allows you to split the keybed and have different colours cast across the keys for different functions, as well as rotary encoder LED's and sliders which are visually really useful when flicking between which synths you are dealing with. The FA could still be the best choice... it really depends how you intend to make music... if you can fill us in some more :)
Another good topic to check out:
http://www.vintagesynth.com/forum/viewt ... 19&t=81699
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Skijumptoes
- Posts: 681
- Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010
Re: Fa-06 vs Fantom x sequencer
Kinda glad to see your response to the Krome, Myrk - since this thread i've taken it upon myself to read about them online and watch a few videos, seeing some of the reviews and comments people seem to love it!
But it was most defiantly not the experience i had with it.
How do you find the screen on the Kurzweil? It must really be annoying if that's outperforming the FA in terms of a sequencer but has the poorer screen. There must be aspects to the FA which are better, as it's a considerably newer keyboard?
In terms of sequencing, i think much depends on whether you're the sort to work in layers and loops, or play live from song start to finish - as i work in layers and loops, the larger, clearer screen will always be of benefit to me.
But it was most defiantly not the experience i had with it.
How do you find the screen on the Kurzweil? It must really be annoying if that's outperforming the FA in terms of a sequencer but has the poorer screen. There must be aspects to the FA which are better, as it's a considerably newer keyboard?
In terms of sequencing, i think much depends on whether you're the sort to work in layers and loops, or play live from song start to finish - as i work in layers and loops, the larger, clearer screen will always be of benefit to me.