Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

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PugFace
Posts: 124
Joined: 14:41, 17 December 2008
Location: UK

Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by PugFace »

As many of you experienced users have found out the infamous 136 bug in recording sample midi note lengths i have a little tip for you. Which does not remove the problem but helps in working out what the length should have been if the software writers had tested this properly.

If after recording you used the hold button but the sample finshed without you sending note off then it appears the magic 136 length appears and your proper length has been lost forever. No... go to micro edit and looking at your 136 and increase the length to the end of the song....look at the tiny grid screen. If it sthe first recording of a sample it shows a little tiny line, increase the length to the end of the song. ie. to what you just recorded. If it does not show the little line then when you hit the end the grid screen jumps to the right a little. You can use shift to increase the length by 10 and mkes it very quick.

What i found is the midi length only matters if the sample is longer than the midi length of the note that plays it. if the midi is longer than the sample length it does not matter because the sample length will finish anyway and free up the sample usage. nice.

This all just takes about 30 seconds max after recording the sample.

Another tip press C1 after recording a sample...then your green block on the sequencer grid shows where samples end and also removes the infamous sample length truncation error after saving a song.
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Candy
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Joined: 06:30, 15 November 2008

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by Candy »

There's another way, which is much easier: Record the sample in your sequencer, when the sample is a complete song, press stop on the sequencer, when the song finished. Then
- go to Sample Edit and set the gate to Off (important!)
- go to Microscope Edit and place the Sample with "Move" on the measure you want (normally to 1.1.0, that the song starts at the beginning of the sequence
- in Microscope Edit you can control the Volume-Level of the Sample by changing the velocity-value.

Important: Don't change the Tempo of a sequence after recording the sample. By changing the tempo it could happen, that the sequence stops, before the Sample is at the end
(Tipp: When you only play the Sample from the Sequencer and play one track live on the keyboard - means, you record no other tracks except the sample - set the Tempo of the sequencer BEFORE RECORDING to 240. so it can' t happen, that youchange the tempo of the song by mistake)
PugFace
Posts: 124
Joined: 14:41, 17 December 2008
Location: UK

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by PugFace »

I tried your alternative method of changing a sample to 'gate off' activation. Unfortunately there is one major drawback which becomes very apparent immediately. The sample starts and has to finish its length when using it. This, for a long sample, which is where i am offering advice is not practical. I found the only way to stop the sample playing for its entirity is to enter sample mode edit which is a pain in the proverbial. If you are going through your samples like i do and pressing the sample buttons and you hit one of the gate off activated samples then you have to listen to the sample for its entirity or go through a very messy process of trying to cancel it by selecting up sample editing menus.

I think gate off activation is ok for short samples but not long ones.

what i put down really works well and is great for recording mutiple parts too with samples.

As i often hit the sample and hold button to get a backing to work with against something that is played on the keyboard from a midi part.

Also i leave a few extra seconds of silence at the end of the sample recording which gives me time to press the sample button again and so record the length correctly in the sequencer then press one of the S buttons to make an end point. The S button press produces a green marker too in the sample track which serves as a location for adding the next parts.
bennyseven
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Location: Germany

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by bennyseven »

Pressing HOLD pad four times Stops all samples immediately. Is this what you are searching for? Maybe this is a solution.
PugFace
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Joined: 14:41, 17 December 2008
Location: UK

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by PugFace »

Thanks for that tip, i never knew that one. Could be interesting if it generates midi cc from the four presses as i like to see where samples end in the sequencer so i can start sections. My music composition is in the 20 minute epic length territory so it needs a fair amount navigation to sections. i extensively use alot of external synths which get sampled in to the sequencer. i really like to get an idea fast to record and the FA does that really well. Much better than ableton in fact, that likes to trigger samples together which in the FA, gives freedom as like was mentioned, can position the sample very easy to experiment with timing. one of the great things is taking parts timing off sync start a little.
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Candy
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Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by Candy »

Thank you, bennyseven. I forgot, to tell, that you can stop a sample with gate off triggered by a pad by pressing the hold-button 4 times!
corvax
Posts: 24
Joined: 16:56, 13 March 2017

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by corvax »

My apologies for the silly question here (just could not find the answer anywhere else) - is there a limitation on maxim sample length (apart of the storage capacity)?
In other words can I use the sampler as a substitute for audio tracks in sequencer and record a complete vocal track?
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Candy
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Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by Candy »

Corvax, yes you can (when you get your vocals synchron wirh the rest). The sample-length is dependent on the size and place of your SD-Card! Don't forget, to set the gate of your sample to OFF, otherwise your sample stops after 34 measures.

Candy
corvax
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Joined: 16:56, 13 March 2017

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by corvax »

Candy wrote:when you get your vocals synchron wirh the rest
Candy
Thank you!
sync appears to be a challenge. I tried to record a sample from Mic while playing the song from the sequencer, but it does not work. All other sounds get recorded into the sampler together with my voice. Can't find how to sample only mic while hearing the backing track or at least the metronome.
R.U.Doin
Posts: 135
Joined: 22:12, 5 June 2005

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by R.U.Doin »

You can choose what to sample: keyboard, keyboard + input or just the input

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/ ... pdf#page79
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Candy
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Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by Candy »

Corvax, I don´t really know, if this will work, when you play the tracks via sequencer and at the same time record a sample. I think, not, because the FA is no Audio-Track-Recorder (otherwise they had construct another concept in this device). I also don´t know, if you can record a sample, while another one is playing (over the Sample-Play-Function). In this case first you must record your Sequencer-Tracks (or a Guide-Track) on one of the samples and later record the vocal-Sample.
Last possibility I know, is to use a DAW, playing your Sequencer-Tracks and later copy them back to your device.
The main problem is, how I told, that the FA is no Audio-Track-Recorder!!!!

Candy
R.U.Doin
Posts: 135
Joined: 22:12, 5 June 2005

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by R.U.Doin »

From what I have read, you can play back the sequencer and only record the input, but I am not sure and I can not test it because I don't have a FA yet.
ducker69
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Joined: 02:29, 6 March 2014

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by ducker69 »

You can record audio and play midi seq at once.. but you have to press the record sample and the start playback button at once (on the sample record screen). Its not a very robust way to do things but it works!
PugFace
Posts: 124
Joined: 14:41, 17 December 2008
Location: UK

Re: Sample Length tip in MiDi Sequencing

Post by PugFace »

I tried the last method suggested ok but theres another method that you truncate the sample beginning to when the recorded sound starts (adjust the sample view size(height) 64 for best viewing results, knob 4 in sample edit) then position the beginning in midi in the sample track to when you want it to begin. This is very useful for experimentation particularly on rhythm recording where its possible to change the feel of timing between lead and backing. This is done alot on the akai machines in dance styles (messy to do in ableton as ableton prefers everything to sync too much and leaving no room for lead in's when a singer might sing before going in to a rhythm bar. ie the music starts with the lead or vocal part before the backing starts.
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