MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Forum for Roland FA-06/08
Post Reply
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by stevel »

I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!

Sort of

At least, a workaround.

MFX Parameters can be controlled by MIDI CC#s, but you have to set up the "source" and "destination". (Now why Roland didn't tell me this when I contacted them - but it actually paid off to actually read the manual...)

You can do this at the System level or Studio Set level. Here's the System level. Please note there are many variables you can change, and this is just a simple example.

I chose Patch SN-A 0024 Phaser Tine, because it doesn't already have S1 assigned to do something (I'm using this in an Init Studio Set that has all other effects off BTW).

1. Press Menu, then select System.

2. Scroll to S1/S2.

3. If necessary, change S1/S2 Assign Source to System.

4. Set S1 Assign to CC 03.

5. Set S1 Mode to Latch.

6. Press Exit to get out to your sound (no need to Write yet..)

7. Press and hold Shift and press Effects Edit.

8. On mine, it shows EP->Ph as the effect for this tone.

9. Press MFX at the bottom left.

10. Scroll over to MFX Control.

11. Set Source 1 to CC 03 (because that's what we chose in step 4).

12. Set Destination 1 to Phaser Switch.

13. Set Sensitivity 1 to -10.

14. Now, when you play, assuming S1 is not "on" (latched"), you should have the Phaser sound.

15. Press S1 to light (latch) and the Phaser should go off!

So there are some issues here:

1. The S1 switch works in reverse of what you'd expect - On (lit) is effect off. [edit, I tried it with the switch set to "off" to begin with, then the values work as expected - so you have to save it with MFX in the state you want, then all positive sensitivity values will work like you'd think they would]

2. Another caveat - not all effects have all the same parameters that can be controlled. For example, in the basic Tremolo effect, there is no "Switch" - you can change the *Depth*.

Continued from the steps above:

16. You would have to save the System settings as such, and save the MFX edits you've made to the tone.

I only have 128 User tone slots.

I just realized, without having thought about this before, that you can't actually save two studio sets, 1 with the effect off (or thru) and one with it on and toggle between them. Any change you make to the MFX on a part MUST be saved as a new tone AFAICT.

This means, you could have the Preset with the effect on, and a user version with the effect off, and then toggle between those two in live performance (could be on parts 1 and 2 and you just use the pads for part select, or could be in two adjacent studio sets or two favorites you can jump between).

Either way, you're going to have to use up 1 user tone slot. So IMHO you'd be better off to go ahead and use the assign knobs and S buttons to control as many parameters of the tone you can and store that in your preset - so you could turn Trem on and off, and adjust its rate and depth for example.

I haven't tried this on the Studio Set level (I was just happy to get it to halfway work this way!!!) so some of the saving might be different.

Remember, the whole reason for doing this with MFX and not IFX or TFX is so you can have sounds on other parts that are NOT affected - so if you're playing live and want bass in the LH, and E Piano in the RH, you can control the Tremolo on off (or whatever parameter) on the E Piano only, not the bass.

Because MFX is the only effect type that can go on a single Part - IFX and TFX affect all 16 parts. It you put tremolo on TFX or IFX, It's present on every part, meaning the bass would have tremolo on it too.

I'm sure it's possible to control these MFX paramaters via MIDI.

I have been able to turn MFX on and off on a part-by-part basis using SysEx messages from a controller keyboard.

See my post here:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=53022

I hope this helps someone somewhere.
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by stevel »

1/18/17

I did a little more experimentation tonight.

1. I used a pedal and set the Tremolo Switch to off, on an effect that had it. Then, when setting the sensitivity to a positive value, it worked as expected - trem was off until I pressed the pedal - as long as I held the pedal (not a latching style) the trem stayed on.

So this could work, but:

2. When the Trem came on, it was rather abrupt. It's as if it starts mid-cylce or something. There are probably other ways to get around this with other parameters of the MFX, (like changing it from a square wave trem to a sine wave trem or something) but to be honest, now that I can change the MFX on or off with sysex, that's far less trouble (and I don't need to save a new version of the tone to do that).

3. As stated above, there is a limit to how many parameters you can control (4 max) and which ones you can control are fixed.

So some effects do not have a "switch" you can turn on or off. However, some do have a "depth" (which may eliminate the "jump" I experienced in #2) and if you store your tone with it set to 0, the positive values on the sensitivity will work as expected. A few other effects have "balance" which is "Wet/Dry Mix" for things like Delays. So you could control that and have only the dry sound.

So if you can't simply turn your MFX on and off with SysEx, and don't want to have to do it on-screen while playing live, the steps in the post above should give you and idea of how to turn any effects off/on that have a Switch, Depth, or Balance setting you can modify, as well as control other any other modifiable MFX parameters you choose.

However, remember you'll have to save the MFX state of each tone in one of your User Tone memory locations (I only have 128) with everything else assigned (all the Sources/Destinations, and control elements (Knobs, etc.)) within the Tone and Studio Set.

But if you're playing live, or otherwise need to turn an effect on and off in real time on a single part out of a studio set, then this is how it has to be done without SysEx.

Best,
Steve
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by stevel »

I just realized I only have 128 User Slots for the SN-A tones. But for SN-S there's like, a million, and for PCM there's 256.

So it's actually not as bad as I thought because the bulk of what I'd want to do is turn the delay off on all the Synth sounds it's on by default!

Still, easier to use SysEx on a single Part.

I don't feel like trying to see if the parameter you assign to a knob gets stored with the Tone or with the Studio Set. I think the latter, which means you'd still have to put each tone in a particular studio set to be able to control the parameters you want if the CC#s are not the same!
Firebass
Posts: 40
Joined: 01:40, 16 January 2016

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by Firebass »

This is good info and it will help me..Thanks

After setting up some S effects I have a whole new pallet of sounds Thanks so Much!!!!!! I knew I was missing something.


+++++++++++
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by stevel »

I just wanted to update this thread. As of this date - July 11, 2017, version 2.0 of the FA system software has been released.

This update allows "Keyboard Groups" which means you can now switch between one Part (such as an EP with no Trem) and another part (EP with Trem) in the same studio set, set to the upper half of the keyboard, with a Bass assigned to the lower half of the keyboard.

You can now use Keyboard Groups like so:

Group 1 - Part 1 and 3, EP + Bass
Group 2 - Part 2 and 3, EP w/Trem + Bass

And toggle back and forth between them.

Because the tone remain has been improved as well, the switching should be seamless.

You still need to have either a preset of both the effected and non-effected versions of the patch, or if not, you'll have to save a version of one of them with effects in a user slot without the effects on (or whichever way works) but it's better than before when switching a studio set would cut off tones and trying to move between tones with the Pads was impractical (this was also improved in version 2.0 because now the Pad function can be set on a studio set basis).

Steve
0kk0p3kk4
Posts: 152
Joined: 07:53, 7 May 2014

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by 0kk0p3kk4 »

stevel wrote: ...
Because the tone remain has been improved as well, the switching should be seamless.
...
Just out of curiosity, how does this improvement show up?
When I had the 06 i never encountered issues within a studioset. It was always seamless.

Thanks!
bennyseven
Posts: 699
Joined: 18:01, 19 April 2014
Location: Germany

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by bennyseven »

True!
Even when quick browsing/dialing sounds within a part, the sounds and their effects still remained with Firmware 1.x.
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by stevel »

0kk0p3kk4 wrote:
stevel wrote: ...
Because the tone remain has been improved as well, the switching should be seamless.
...
Just out of curiosity, how does this improvement show up?
When I had the 06 i never encountered issues within a studioset. It was always seamless.

Thanks!
Sorry I forget now but I ran into a problem where trying to switch to a non-effected version of the same patch either did something like cut off delay tails when I switched or something like that. I'd have to go back to the previous firmware to remember!
future-outfits
Posts: 28
Joined: 11:27, 3 March 2018
Location: melbourne

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by future-outfits »

stevel wrote:I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!


stevel is the man. This has added a whole other dimension to my live show now
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by stevel »

future-outfits wrote:
stevel wrote:I FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!


stevel is the man. This has added a whole other dimension to my live show now
Well I'm glad it helped!
skyy19854
Posts: 15
Joined: 07:10, 4 December 2016

Re: MFX On/Off workaround (CC instead of SysEx)

Post by skyy19854 »

If you go to the tone edit page all things can be done with foot switches and you can minus & plus values when appropriate. Source = is what controls , destination = what is being controlled
you can also split, layer, stack tones, velocity and all that there first and when using the volume knob the entire "patch" goes up and down as one sound. When in SS mode you can layer these premade "tones" already split & layered easily with built in foot switch crossfades. turn mfx on/off and much more.

My 2 cents

PS: This only on the PCM sound bank, you can do it on the other engines but I would need to mess with them to figure it out

FA06
Post Reply