tidalwaveten wrote:* Wow, just wow! :-) Thanks for all the detailed assistance. I'm writing down every piece of kit you recommended, going to watch YouTube videos on them, then check the pre-owned market. Hope I can keep things under budget. Maybe USD $1,500 or less. Yes, I'm U.S.-based. With Logic and Ableton Live, I'm hoping there are free or cheap "lite" versions to get started with. Fully-fledged software, I imagine, can eat up a budget fast. And possibly derail me from my purpose--just getting up and running.
In my mind, Logic is one of the biggest steal in the DAW world, you basically get everything with it, and as there's a bit of a paywall when you buy a mac, so they do offset the apps to be 'affordable', you get everything you need and a ton of supporting content, presets, loops, plugins etc. Although Logic is a bit 'unique' in how it operates, so not everyone's cup of tea, sometimes it really frustrates me, but on the whole i love it - it's an absolute bargain.
Ableton is great, but it's typical pricing model where you have multiple levels of options when buying leaves me a bit cold.
The suite version really does get pricey, when i got my Push i upgraded to standard when on offer, then upgraded again when suite was on offer. But it was always annoying when i was on standard version, as someone i knew had a dodgy version of suite and it would really piss me off to think they had it for free, yet i was paying a load just for standard version, and that doesn't even come with the sampler plugin!! It's nuts really, and while the underlying point is piracy vs paying - it's still a kick in the teeth to think that you've bought the hardware, you've upgraded, but even then you don't get a the sampler instrument unless you upgrade again!
Personally, if you're on a budget i would start with Reaper (
http://www.reaper.fm ), you can use it fully functional for free for as long as you need to evaluate it, and it's a mix of great DAW's like Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase etc. And it runs on pretty much all platforms which is good.
On top of that, you could pretty much just pick up some free plugins to flesh it out, as required, or buy something like Computer Magazine one month, which comes complete with a download code for a stack of plugins that they've assembled for their readers, some are exclusive versions of paid software too, but i know that pack definitely has a few samplers and sample packs included.
tidalwaveten wrote:* Re: Apple, I'll strongly consider a Mac Mini or MacBook. Is there a minimum older model of MacBook you'd recommend? A colleague of mine uses nothing but Macs. While he's not into music production, he always buys his Macs as refurbs. And there's a company he swears by that he's been using for years. So I'll check prices there. It's Colorado Computers or something similarly named. Don't think the older MacBooks are going to have SSDs though, would they?
SSD is easy to put in a MacBook (Particularly the older 2012/2013 like models as you can swap out the CD drive and run dual HDD), but spec wise it's hard to know what to aim for, as to what your needs may be.
However, i think this applies to Mac/PC as they're same architecture really if you're intel, and i'd say you want at least an i5 2.5ghz, and at least 8GB of memory, but definitely an SSD, for audio an SSD is a game changer.
Also, with mac's you can use the firewire audio interfaces reliably, which rely less on CPU time than a USB device, generally have lower latency, and also provide more power to the interface for better headphone amplification with the built in headphone ports.
tidalwaveten wrote:If you could advise on the bare minimum amount of kit you'd recommend for getting started, what would those individual items be?
Mixer:
Something that's good, flexible and can be picked up pre-owned, i would say the older blue Yamaha MG12/4's come up for really good prices if you watch the market for a week or two. I've seen them for 50-60 quid in the past (80-90$?). These have the sub output which gives you some great flexibility, basically you have a main output that goes out to your speakers/amp, but the sub output can go out to an audio interface, and each channel on the mixer has a 'sub' button so you can pick which channels are going to the DAW.
If you only have the FA, and don't plan on any other outboard gear then you can get away with not having a mixer of course.
Don't ever get fooled into buying a Behringer mixer though, honestly, they're nothing but trouble in my experience. Even as a cheap option, the pre-amps are noisy, some of the channels are noisy, and lights/knobs do fail on them.
Audio Interface:
Something like the Focusrite scarlett 2i2 (2 inputs at once), or 2i4 (4 inputs at once) are simple, great, affordable USB interfaces. These are pretty much the go to's for most people starting out.
Firewire wise the Focusrite Saffire's are great, The saffire pro 14, particularly can be had super price pre-owned. Don't know how well these work on a windows setup, but they're great on mac. Although, they've got to be close to reaching their supported (by focusrite) life. But you can say that about many devices.
Cabling:
Make sure you're using 'balanced' cables where possible between your gear and mixer, cost a little bit more than standard cabling, but it does make a difference.
Speakers/Monitors:
I'd stick with what you've got, fried of mine mixes on hifi separates and his stuff always sounds super good, you just get to know what you have, and there's a lot of snobbery in the audio world where people flock towards (And pay loads for!) 'neutrality', when in truth, if you're a creator/songwriter/producer, a speaker/monitor that encourages you to enjoy your writing/performing is most important in my mind. So hi-fi speakers, even if they're a little emphasised, can be a good thing.
Add a computer in to that mix, and your phase 1 could be done super cheap, Audio interface maybe be around $80-120, balanced cables probably $30, disregard a mixer unless you have other outboard gear, and using your current speakers. Reaper as the DAW. And you're practically there for the basics of recording and having something running.
In fact, with the FA, you have an audio interface built in, so you could even drop out the audio interface lol, using the buil-in audio interface, the DAW will re-route back through to the FA for example, plus you can use the FA's inputs to capture other sources (mics etc.).
Spending a bit of money in the room you chose to do your recording in also helps, i.e. getting a nice desk in, and keeping everything clean, putting some bits up on the walls which inspire you - classic albums, music concepts etc.. Brackets/holders for headphones/cables that you use, cable management to keep everything clean etc.
I have some chord theories and EQ charts on my wall, and i'm forever referring to them.
tidalwaveten wrote:The Push 2 looks very cool; it I can do any step sequencing that feels like MED, that would make me super productive (relative to myself, of course). Will watch some videos on Push 2. But I don't even know what Ableton Live is; I have heard of Logic and Cubase. A guy at work advised me to get a Mac and just use GarageBand to get started. But he's not a synth-head like I am. He's more of a guitar guy.
Ableton (+push) is literally a world of it's own lol, you can't really explain it without actually using it. If you're into EDM etc. then it's pretty much the go to DAW, well, that and reason. Trouble with reason is it's a very closed eco system.
Logic, Cubase, Pro-Tools, Reaper, Studio One etc. are very much traditional DAW's, you need know where you're going and read a fair bit of each manual to learn them, and even then after years of use there's much that can still be learnt, they're much more suited if you have a compete vision of what you want to achieve.
Ableton, you can dive in pretty quick, it's all about creating patterns, and then assembling those patterns like lego bricks to create a song, it's incredibly quick for creating ideas. Unlike Logic/Cubase etc. you don't really need to know where you're going to come out with something that's great, because it encourages you to make bite sized segments, and mix them in to see how they sound, but to get stuff in tune, it's ridiculously easy to pitch/stretch - as Ableton has a 'warp' engine at the heart of everything.
If you could pick up a cheap Ableton Push 1 with a Ableton License, you would absolutely love it. It's probably the most fun i've ever had making music, honestly, it's incredible, see here how the step sequencer works:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQofWz9uiLo
Push 1 is pretty much identical to Push 2 in terms of this type of functionality, it just lacks the nicer full colour display, and a few advanced features.
tidalwaveten wrote:I'm a little confused on getting the iPad 3 connected up. But I'll google on the terms you mentioned--the Camera Connection Kit, Midi Connection Kit, etc. Plus the sampling software and bus software you recommended.
1. Basically, you buy the camera connection kit (doesn't have to be official, but check reviews are good), this gives you normal USB port on your iPad.
Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Lightning-to-USB ... B014VGHG0U
2. *May not need this* You then buy a generic USB-Midi cable, which turns the usb port into a midi connection.
https://www.amazon.com/VicTsing-Cable-C ... B00ACGMOA6
However, i'm thinking that you may not even need the USB-Midi cable, as the FA can be set to class-compliant (i.e. driverless) mode and may work fine direct into usb port of the camera connection kit - i'll try later and let you know if this works.
3. Just get some sample/audio apps on the iPad - whatever appeals to you, just check they are midi capable.
4. Buy/Connect a 3.5mm stereo audio jack cable from the iPad headphone out into the line input on the back of the FA (This will let you hear the iPad mixed through with the FA's own internal sounds), set the input levels to suit. like this:-
https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-3-5 ... B00NO73MUQ
5. Within the iPad apps, you can set the midi channel to what the sample players will respond to, i.e. you could pick channel 15 or something high up. Then on the FA's own internal sequencer you can use those channels (15), and set it to 'EXT' (External midi) to play the iPad sampler, Channel 16 would be the FA's own sample pads, Channel 10 will be the FA's own drum sounds, and then you have 1-9 and 11-14 for the FA's synth engine sounds to live in. As you scroll up/down through the parts/channels on your FA you can pick what you control at any one time.
You can even sample from the iPad direct into a sample pad on your FA doing things this way.
AudioBus you will only want to take advantage of if you wanted to run multiple iPad audio apps at once. So disregard that for now.
tidalwaveten wrote:Will take a look at FocusRite for an Audio interface. Presuming this is a Must Have for recording. Correct? Or can I hold off. Really just looking forward to live diddling around at first--triggering an external sampler, etc. Having a mixer and monitors.
It's more critical if you had another external device, or required vocal/microphone work - particularly if using a condenser mic as these requite phantom power that an audio interface provides, otherwise no, it's fine for starters as the FA has an audio interface built in which is pretty good, particularly as you can record the external sources going in to it also.
If you'e connected as above, you're pretty much self-effient with the iPad and FA, just go out to speakers or headphones and you're away, using the FA's built in sequencer as a DAW replacement.
tidalwaveten wrote:Getting back to Mac, a dear friend, who doesn't do music production but is a person I trust, advised to Go Mac. He's got several vintages of Macs that have never let him down. One of the older one he uses as a FLAC audio server. He said don't think Price, think value: reliability, quality, productivity, etc. He's into the same Electronica as I am, is an audiophile listener, as well as an IT guy who must support Windows too.
Well, i'm a software developer, and used to be Sys Admin for Windows Server deployments, Workstations, Linux driven SQL backends for small businesses etc. So i'm totally split across multiple OS's, which is why i'm quite happy to use whatever is available, i'm not religious when it comes to OS's, if it works, and i get paid - i'm good! :)
I have friends who are blind faith mac lovers, and i argue with them everytime we speak - shit like when Apple decide to solder the RAM to the motherboard in the Mac Mini's a few years back - that kind of behaviour makes me really angry. Or when they deliberately try to stop you from putting an aftermarket drive in a machine you own, i.e. breaking that upgrade path.
However, i have a little 13" MacBook pro that is an absolute workhorse, and i compare it to a builders van that i can stick in a small bag and take with me anywhere - i have such love for that little machine, it's bulletproof, i can shut the lid and open it as many times as i want and it will sleep/awake instantly, when i'm in a meeting that's really nice to know i can open it up and using it in seconds.
I sometimes look at it, and laugh, and as above, compare it to a builders van, stacked with hammers, chisels, fixings, saws, power drills etc. But that's my tool! That's all i really need, for that to exist i really consider myself to be lucky! :)
And, i have such faith in my previous mac's that i'm not too put off by price, yes they are expensive, but, i have an old white Core2Duo MacBook that i used to use for live playing, i shudder to think how old that is, i used to use it for logic, i then used it with Traktor for live DJ'ing/sound processing. And now, my other half uses it for boring stuff like excel etc.
Despite being rattled by LOUD bass for live stuff, and cooked to death with virtual instruments, it's still brilliant, a little slow of course, but totally useable. I have friend who has been through about 4-5 laptops in the time i've had that, and his has probably only ever been used for Facebook etc. So yes, that's the comparison i make. It's very rare that you see someone open up a MacBook and it's got keys missing, for example.
At the time i probably paid around $900 for it, and my mates laptop was around $400, and i remember thinking "Is this really worth double?". Well, there's your answer.
However, the gap is definitely a lot smaller nowadays, and i think a lot of the pro-mac stuff you hear was developed in most Mac users minds from many years ago, and doesn't hold so strong today. There's days where i consider swapping over to Studio One, or Reaper to make it easier if i ever needed to swap to windows. And i've tried to swap (Purely because i get more brute power from a windows machine), but it's never ever worked out for me and i've gone running back to my mac.
Only you know what will work for you, of course. :)