Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

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stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

Post by stevel »

OK all, here's what I want to do:

1. I'm playing in a trio, Bass, Guitar and Drums.

2. I will play guitar live, and, I also want to play any keyboard parts I can cover live as well, whenever either the guitar is laying out, or it's not prominent, or just a backing part and the keyboard part is the "main" part. IOW, I'm going to play the "main" part on either guitar or keys live, and any backing of either will be relegated to the sequence.

3. Because of this, I foresee needing to play some split keyboard parts. So I think what I need to do is leave tracks 1 and 2 of my sequences empty (as place holders) and put on Channels 1 and 2, the keyboard parts I need live.

Now, to set up the splits (which will vary) I think I will HAVE to use Studio Sets, correct?

IOW, if I just embed some PC (MSB/LSB/PC) messages in my sequence to pick the right sounds for channels 1 and 2, it's only going to play what the keyboard is set to. I think this would be far easier to set up in the Studio Set itself rather than trying to have all that info (probably sysex messages) embedded in each of the sequence's tracks.

4. There may be some audio clips I'll trigger (like a sound effects intro) either with the MIDI sequence itself (on channel 16) or if possible, play from the pads.

If I am correct, these are saved on a per song basis.

Also, if I am correct, when I recorded a song using the internal sequencer, it automatically associates a Studio Set with it.

So my thought is this:

Song 1:
A. Sequence of all MIDI notes.
B. Studio Set with necessary sounds (and live keyboard parts if any, etc.)
C. SS also contains any necessary samples to be triggered (live or by the sequence).

I would do this for each song, with a new SS for each song.

This means:

I will not need to put MSB/LSB/PC embedded in the MIDI Sequence itself, because the SS will have the correct sounds associated with the Sequence.

Correct?

So my working plan is this:

A. Import Sequence to or Create Sequence in Reaper.
B. Do NOT pick sounds in REAPER (via PC messages) but create a SS on the FA with necessary sounds.
C. Export from Reaper, import to FA.
D. Save the song and the SS together.

Is that right?

I also need to:

5. Make a Click Track. I think what I'd want to do is send the Click on a track out to the Sub Out. Again, I think I could just assign this easily in the SS.

6. Finally, if I'm correct, when you change a SS, all of the parameters reset, so there's also no need for any "reset" messages in my Sequence itself.

7. Just for perspective, the way I used to work is, I'd put all the PC messages and whatnot in the sequences themselves and would play them from a device external to the keyboard. In the case of the FA, this would mean I could just leave it on a single SS and let the Sequence send the PC#s to change the sounds.

But again, I think in order to do any splits that vary song to song for live playing, I'm going to specifically have to set up a studio set for that. Since the other stuff seems to work in tandem with that (output assign, reset of sounds/FX controllers, etc.) it seems that really, I don't need to do much in Reaper other than basic notes and real time controller events, then import that into the FA and do all the sound selection and assigning, etc. there.

Does that make sense?

One additional thing - I'm getting ready to try this but just in case someone knows:

8. I was also considering using the vocoder in an atttempt to provide some harmony vocals.

IIRC, there are 4 or so preset Vocoder effects, but I think you can also put the vocoder effect on any patch.

If so, I may be able to sequence notes to play back while singing into the mic for faux harmonies.

TIA
Steve
LivingEdge
Posts: 31
Joined: 15:17, 1 September 2016

Re: Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

Post by LivingEdge »

I'm not super friendly with my FA-08, but will be soon.

Everything you've said sounds right... don't know why reaper, everything can be done in the fa (avoiding transfers), but if that's what you're familiar with...

The sequencer does have a click track -- possibly run through sub out, or use midi clock to drive a drum machine/metronome, or create a midi click track measure and copy it 200 times onto itself.

Doing everything inside the FA will give you the most mileage and least amount of pain, imo.

Multiple songs + studio sets seems the way to go, but there will be load time, which is relatively short.

Perforn backup, move around the files in the folder, or rename, and then reload... use to set song orders, or keep things alphabetical (just a thought I had that might be possible [don't know haven't tried]).


edit: understand [possibly read somewhere?] vocoder only works with channel 1? ? ?
Gatorjohn
Posts: 96
Joined: 15:39, 3 July 2016
Location: N E Florida

Re: Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

Post by Gatorjohn »

That is correct, pg 42 of the ref man.
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

Post by stevel »

LivingEdge wrote:
edit: understand [possibly read somewhere?] vocoder only works with channel 1? ? ?
Yes, this seems to be the case.

I have at least figured out I can set up the live part of the Studio Set (as many tracks/parts as needed) with all the splits and layers and octave shifts, etc. needed. I can put in CC7 messages to kill the volume on any part I don't need sounding at a given time, and PC messages to change sounds.

I've got one I've been working on for the better part of 2 days (had to learn to play the live parts too) and I'm going to do a test import and see how the studio set links up with it and how easy it is to control things in the sequencer - but I think putting in PC and CC messages will be easier in the DAW. Plus I need the DAW version to be pretty exact so I have an additional backup.

Lot of work but I hope once I get it down it will come easier - and this is probably one of the more complex songs to sequence and play that I'll be doing so hopefully will be downhill from there.
petroni
Posts: 13
Joined: 01:53, 19 August 2014

Re: Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

Post by petroni »

I do everything (sequencing/sampling/click/etc) with the FA and after 2 years with the board I feel really at home. The only thing that its really annoying for me is a bug in the sequencer software that make it goes back to measure 01 everytime you do any kind of track editing, specially when you are doing a load of editing on a 200+ measures sequence.

For the click track I found that using a track exclusively as midi click track and send it to SUB-OUT gave me freedom to select the click sound and the volume of the SUB-OUT seems to be higher level than the metronome so it's easier for our drummer to adjust the volume. I also use the first / second bars as a lead in/intro beat for the drummer.
LivingEdge wrote:Multiple songs + studio sets seems the way to go, but there will be load time, which is relatively short.
Unfortunately if you have a lot of samples associated with your songs (as I do) it's very hard to navigate around your songs in a fast/precise way (even using the [SHIFT]+DIAL combination). It's also impossible to save songs as Favorites (another bug in the software as this can be easily done on the Fantom series and is a must for heavy midi sequencing live playing).

This two limitation make it very hard to use the board in a live situation for me unless I organize/save my songs in advance and then simply load one by one in sequence when playing live.

As Roland did not give us even a simple tone/song/samples librarian software this organization must be done directly in the FA and its not a "fast" procedure specially when you have 100+ songs inside the board.

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LivingEdge wrote:Perforn backup, move around the files in the folder, or rename, and then reload... use to set song orders, or keep things alphabetical (just a thought I had that might be possible [don't know haven't tried]).
LivingEdge I have never thought about this "move around the files" thing... Ingenious!
Copy the SD Card contents to the Mac and then do the organization withing the folders!
Of course that it's not the perfect solution but it will be way more fast/easy than in the FA.
I'm not with my FA now but will try this as soon as possible and return here!
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

Post by Skijumptoes »

Petroni, care to share any of these songs? I'd be really interested in hearing if you have anything online?

Particularly if they've been 100% done within the FA itself, i feel like i'm drowning the larger a song grows in the FA. Wish it would scroll in 8 bar intervals - would make song navigation so much easier for me.
petroni
Posts: 13
Joined: 01:53, 19 August 2014

Re: Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

Post by petroni »

Skijumptoes wrote:Petroni, care to share any of these songs? I'd be really interested in hearing if you have anything online?
Particularly if they've been 100% done within the FA itself, i feel like i'm drowning the larger a song grows in the FA. Wish it would scroll in 8 bar intervals - would make song navigation so much easier for me.
Hi Skijumptoes

Currently I use the FA paired with a MX49 but all sequences are made with the FA.

This is old stuff and is not a finished master. Everything except guitars were sequenced in the FA (bass, strings, percussion, bells, efx). And I played some live parts:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/atvo5rjnenzg9 ... b.mp3?dl=0

To go forward / backward faster in your sequence you can press first >> or << and then you press together the other transport key like "<< + >>" and then the sequencer will advance faster.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: Need Some Help Sequencing a Bunch of Songs

Post by Skijumptoes »

Wow superb! Great voice too, is that you also?!

Where are the drums from? Some of the snare rolls sound excellent. As does the brass, and additional percussion.

One question if you don't mind, do you find multi-tracking audio to be a problem? (i.e. as you can't hear previous audio that's recorded when recording into a new pad?)

Great stuff, and hugely inspirational to anyone i hope, and a real display of what you can do with the FA as a workstation.
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