New System Program 2.0

Forum for Roland FA-06/08
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by stevel »

Skijumptoes wrote:
stevel wrote:
Seamlessly Switching Between Multiple Sounds While Performing (Sound Remain)
The big deal here is the Keyboard Groups - before, if you wanted an effected version of a sound and an unaffected version of the same sound, along with other multiple instruments, you had to use two studio sets or two versions (one with FA, one not) in the same studio set.
Well, i would even go further to say that a bigger deal is voice polyphony being saved, i.e. in that you don't need to Mute parts anymore using this method if you wanted to multi-select in multiples of 2 or more.

Muting via the sample pads would be the only option for this, and of course muting still takes up voice polyphony in the background on the muted parts.

Keyboard groups mean that only the parts selected will be processed by the FA. Which is a huge bonus.
Can you expand on this please.

I'm not sure how muting uses polyphony.

If a part has the keyboard switch on, but is muted, it makes no sound, so I wouldn't think the engine is using up polyphony.

Is it the same if the keyboard switch is on for a part, but the volume is at zero?

This actually may be why the 4 parts I was using were running out of polyphony at what I felt was a much earlier point than they should - because I have those 4 (2 parts layered on the bottom, 2 parts layered on the top) all "On" with the switch, but I also have 3 more parts with the switch on with their volume at "0".

I did this because I can have the sequencer send CC7 messages to turn and and off the various parts (I have a total of 7 Parts with the kbd switch on, some volume 0, and some with volume on, which changes throughout the song with up to 4 sounding simultaneously).

There are some places where I have an 8th or quarter rest to change the kbd group, but other places where there's no time so I need the sequencer to do it, so I just let the sequencer do it all.

Because of that I don't thing I could intermix the two, but it's at least nice to know for future reference.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

Yes muting a part, but if it's selected to playback will still be using polyphony.

Try it, on the standard studio set, enable the Kbd column to ON for all piano parts so they're all selected to play, then mute all the parts other than part 1 (via sequencer screen or Pad utility - Part mute option) and you'll see the polyphony is pathetic for part 1 as the FA is still processing the other 15 parts too.
bennyseven
Posts: 699
Joined: 18:01, 19 April 2014
Location: Germany

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by bennyseven »

Yes, typically MUTE is part of the audio mixer section and not synth tone section. So, mute will suppress the generated sound to pass the output.
I am not quite shure if this is the same with Release 2.0 and the mute groups. Maybe they changed something.
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by stevel »

Alright, so actually, the Keyboard Switch Groups fixes this as well.

I'm sure it's the same with volume - it still "plays" the part, using polyphony, but you just don't hear it - kind of like having it play out the Sub out jack, with no speaker plugged in - still using the polyphony.

So it sounds like turning off the Keyboard Switch rather than turning my volumes down to 0 on currently-not-playing parts would be the "correct" way to solve polyphony issues.

I bet there's a sysex for the kbd switch per part - I could put that in a sequence instead of the CC messages (but the CC messages are SO much easier...). I wonder if they made new SysEx commands for the new features in 2.0 (there are some "future expansion" ones listed in the manual).
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

Well, each kbd switch in studio set/part view mode has a SysEx string to enable/disable.

So the keyboard switch, when a pad is pressed instantly sends sysex for all 16 Parts, in turn setting their 'Kbd' status. I just checked on midi monitor app.

So, Of course, as it's SysEx that it's spitting out, you can use the pads to stamp the keyboard switches into a DAW/Sequencer etc. and return back to FA on playback.
keyboardnut
Posts: 5
Joined: 12:06, 9 November 2014

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by keyboardnut »

I have to say I rarely post to any forums but felt I had to comment on system 2!
It has turned this board from average at best to extremely good !
The keyboard switch groups for live use are an inspired use of the pads and make changing sounds
within a song so easy and the seamless sound switching is a dream. I was going to sell this board but not now as I think it will become my main board, and I have a Kronos and a montage so that is saying something.
My only complaint is the build quality but it obviously keeps the price down so shouldn't complain about that.
Well done Roland.
Khatru
Posts: 6
Joined: 02:09, 25 June 2017
Location: Denmark

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Khatru »

keyboardnut wrote:I have to say I rarely post to any forums but felt I had to comment on system 2!
It has turned this board from average at best to extremely good !
Same here.
For me the 2.0 update has turned my FA-06 from a pretty nice supplement to my Kurzweil PC3X to a keyboard that can easily stand alone in most live situations. All I need to do now, is saving up a bit of money, sell the FA-06 and buy a FA-07!

But the switch groups has really made the FA into a killer workstation for live use, there is simply no other keyboard out there that is capable of seamlessly switching between multiple sounds, splits and layers with such ease (with the possible exceptions of Kronos and Montage).

I also love that pad mode is now saved with the studio set, and the new midi control features are a very nice addition as well.

Good job Roland!
locojohn
Posts: 26
Joined: 13:42, 17 June 2017

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by locojohn »

keyboardnut wrote:I have to say I rarely post to any forums but felt I had to comment on system 2!
It has turned this board from average at best to extremely good !
For me FA-08 is well above average even without 2.0 firmware update. For me it's about the sound quality, versatility, keybed feel (I also have a grand piano), sound layering and synth control, so I can't see how it's an average board otherwise.

Andrejs
Gordkeir
Posts: 2
Joined: 18:17, 25 June 2017

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Gordkeir »

I regularly use two keyboards for live use. Before version 2.0, despite having the set list organised as favourites, I had to manually change patches on the second board.The fa has always been the main keyboard for the range of sounds and flexibility it provides. Despite all the layers and splits, I also needed to have the second board available with it's own set of sounds. However, thanks to the update I can now have all the studio sets (saved as song titles) automatically change patches on my second board in an instant by inserting the msb / lsb and patch change numbers in the studio set. This, together with the seamless changing of multiple sounds without sounds cutting out using the pads has proved to be a game changer.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

Must admit, i've always been happy with my -06 and a separate 88 key controller, i'm now seriously debating getting the -08. However, it's hard to justify the cost right now, but i'm certainly keeping an eye open lol
bennyseven
Posts: 699
Joined: 18:01, 19 April 2014
Location: Germany

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by bennyseven »

There is one more bug fixed, although it is not listed in the release notes.
This bug here is fixed. Thanks Roland. Maybe they're browsing this forum...? Nobody knows.

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=51913&hilit=freeze

cheers,
BennySeven
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by stevel »

Skijumptoes wrote:Must admit, i've always been happy with my -06 and a separate 88 key controller, i'm now seriously debating getting the -08. However, it's hard to justify the cost right now, but i'm certainly keeping an eye open lol
Honestly, I think the 88 key controller and 06 is a better combo as far as versatility is concerned. Of course if you rarely play two keyboard (dual manual) stuff, or only really need the weighted keys, or for some reason only need an "all in one box" workstation, then the 08 has always been a great choice.

I would go for the 88 key controller + 06 myself because I do a lot of live work and need layers and splits and changing of sounds and the piano key feel would definitely help the piano sounds, but I'd still have the option of the synth action for all the other sounds I like it for.
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by stevel »

locojohn wrote:
keyboardnut wrote:I have to say I rarely post to any forums but felt I had to comment on system 2!
It has turned this board from average at best to extremely good !
For me FA-08 is well above average even without 2.0 firmware update. For me it's about the sound quality, versatility, keybed feel (I also have a grand piano), sound layering and synth control, so I can't see how it's an average board otherwise.

Andrejs
Most real players hate the action and the key size. I'm only a somewhat decent player and I despise the key size.

But I think by "average" what most people mean is that it's a good - or rather, great - "all around" keyboard. It does a lot of things really well - but it doesn't do some things very good at all - it's like it sacrifices being good at a few important things in order to be a good jack of all trades.

For example, before 2.0, using it as a live keyboard if you needed lots of sound switching within songs was not very practical.

In fact, I HAD to use an external controller keyboard with it. I used the FA primarily as just a sound generator at that point.

I would have gladly traded in the "DAW Features" (which are pretty basic) to have better live performance options. And I'm sure there are those who would want better DAW options and not care so much about the live options.

But the 2.0 update definitely bought two of the weaker points - live use and controller use - up a notch.

Like I said - it was already a great bang for the buck keyboard. Now I feel like there's no competition for it in the same price range - or even higher for some other brands.
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by stevel »

Gordkeir wrote:I regularly use two keyboards for live use. Before version 2.0, despite having the set list organised as favourites, I had to manually change patches on the second board.The fa has always been the main keyboard for the range of sounds and flexibility it provides. Despite all the layers and splits, I also needed to have the second board available with it's own set of sounds. However, thanks to the update I can now have all the studio sets (saved as song titles) automatically change patches on my second board in an instant by inserting the msb / lsb and patch change numbers in the studio set. This, together with the seamless changing of multiple sounds without sounds cutting out using the pads has proved to be a game changer.
This was me exactly.

I had a controller I used with a Rackmount, and I just couldn't use the Rackmount with the FA because of it's lack of controller features (I might still not).

But I also couldn't use the FA on its own because of the lack of on-the-fly sound switching problems.

2.0 addresses both of these. So it took the FA from being a great 2nd board in a multi-board rig, to being the central board in a multi board rig.

I'm so happy with it now. For once I feel like something I bought has actually paid off more, rather than feeling like I got left behind once new gear came out.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

stevel wrote:Honestly, I think the 88 key controller and 06 is a better combo as far as versatility is concerned. Of course if you rarely play two keyboard (dual manual) stuff, or only really need the weighted keys, or for some reason only need an "all in one box" workstation, then the 08 has always been a great choice.
Yeah i agree, and that's why i have that combo.

It's more down to ergonomics than anything though - I have the 88 key in front of me, and due to how my racking sits, the FA is on my right side. I really want the FA centre focus now, but i can't fit an 88 key in my rack on the right where my FA can sit.

That, and the -08 is of far better build quality. The plastickness of the FA-06 really does it a massive dis-service, perhaps that's why it's a bit of a hidden gem.

On the plus, my 88 key is light and the -06 is light - so both good for carry around.

If i can suppress my want for the next few weeks, i'll be good.... Will be hard though :)
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