New System Program 2.0

Forum for Roland FA-06/08
0kk0p3kk4
Posts: 152
Joined: 07:53, 7 May 2014

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by 0kk0p3kk4 »

If its the case that sound change from studioset to studioset is still cutted and the only change in V2 regarding the smooth sound change is this group-thingy, the only (and great) advance is that you can now have multiple splits on multiple setups within a studioset, since on V1 it was also possible to have 1 setup of splits and other setups had to be just layers (with same midi channels). Switching smoothly with 1 button push from one to another, nothing new there, correct?

Can someone with V2 say that, is there a chance to switch via footpedal the studioset Part or group to another any other way than on the effect-screen?

Can these groups or parts now be put to Favorites, in order to have smooth transitions between sounds in this view?

Can you create these groups with splits any way wanted basicly? (like 5sounds splitted to group1, 5 sounds splitted to group2 and so on...)?
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

Not seen a way to control via footswitch.

And at it's very basic level all that the switching is doing is enabling/disabling specific combinations of the 16 parts via a single pad press.

So splits etc remain on a per-part basis.

But it works very well.
Escaperocks
Posts: 27
Joined: 22:30, 23 June 2017

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Escaperocks »

Skijumptoes wrote:Not seen a way to control via footswitch.

And at it's very basic level all that the switching is doing is enabling/disabling specific combinations of the 16 parts via a single pad press.

So splits etc remain on a per-part basis.

But it works very well.
I concur on all the above.

I had some fun last night on my -08.

I created a studio set with specific tones in all 16 parts.

I then created 16 Key Switch Groups with many different combinations of the the parts.

It was very neat how well it worked. One thing I did notice is I had much less note stealing if I ran up against polyphony if I had a few pads behind a piano sound, for example. Leaving them off until I wanted them, bringing them in temporarily, then switch them back off was great.

Couple that with the ability to now have pad mode be Studio Set Specific, really ups the FA08 (and 6 and 7) game.
Joe P
Posts: 159
Joined: 21:44, 20 November 2014

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Joe P »

Two things I will be looking for:

Make D-Beam assignable to rotary speed and make it latch-able.

Same for pitch bender (make it latch-able).
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by stevel »

Joe P wrote:Two things I will be looking for:

Make D-Beam assignable to rotary speed and make it latch-able.

Same for pitch bender (make it latch-able).

Joe, you can assign a pedal to Pitch Up or Pitch Down (it would take two pedals to do both, otherwise you only get up OR down). You can't latch it, but at least you can hold your foot on it!

Besides, I don't think this is a common feature in any keyboard - most people who need to pitch up or down for any extended amount of time are going to be building it into the Studio Set or pitch-shifting the keyboard.

Now, what Roland would probably tell you is to set up two Parts, 1 ordinary and one shifted by the amount you want, with the same sound in both, and use the Keyboard Switching Groups to toggle between them. I realize you can't "glide from one transposition to another" which would be cool.

As for the D-Beam, it already works this way - if you pull up the first Organ patch, it changes from slow speed to fast speed with the Mod Lever, but if you press "Assignable" on the D-Beam it's by default set to CC01 (Modulation) so it actually will speed it up as you move your hand closer.

It isn't latchable of course, but I don't know how it could be - like the Pitch Bend, it's not an "all or nothing" thing like a hold pedal or button. Those are "continuous controllers" and are meant to send values from 0-127 rather than two fixed values that essentially equate to "on" and "off".

If you want to latch the control for Rotary, you can Assign S1 to CC01 and set it to Latch and it works for this. On the SN Organ sound, CC80 and CC81 are already set up as Fast (S1) and Brake (S2).

I'm not sure why you'd want to use the D-Beam for this anyway (other than to free up the Mod Lever or S1/S2 buttons for other purposes if you've already got them assigned).

The D-Beam works great in exactly the same lighting conditions at all times, but I find it to be pretty useless if you've got varying light sources (night versus day, stage lights, etc.) - plus if you're going to hold your hand over it, you might as well have it on the Mod Lever...

It's good for wacky effects IMHO, but refined control is not something it does well, not do I believe was it designed for.

BTW, there is a pitch shift effect - you could use that effect and CC01 assigned to a knob - you could "latch" things by just stopping moving the knob at a particular point - 0, 127, or anywhere in between.

IOW, I think there are enough ways to do this that Roland probably wouldn't see a big need to make latching available in any way on the D-Beam or Pitch Bend (and it may not be possible without being able to restrict the values or "hold" them in a particular state like the knobs do).
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

Joe P wrote: Same for pitch bender (make it latch-able).
You can use the 'Assign' row of the sound modify knobs to achieve something similar, you can assign Modulation and/or Pitch bend to any of the rotaries, and of course being a rotary it will latch.

Also, if you change the tone to be +x semitones up, and 0 down, you can soon get back to the initial pitch by moving the rotary all the way back. As it's only sending a standard pitch bend change you can also over-ride the value on the rotary with the pitch bend to reset to the centre easily.
Joe P
Posts: 159
Joined: 21:44, 20 November 2014

New System Program 2.0

Post by Joe P »

Steve, Skiijump, you guys are awesome – thanks. So it makes me feel bad to say it didn’t help… :-)

For the D-Beam, I went to see Asia and Geoff Downes’ rig was all Roland. He had a Fantom and used the D-Beam to change Leslie speed (rotary) from slow to fast and back again with a wave of his hand. I thought it was so cool and also ergonomic. That’s what I was hoping to do on the FA08.

I already change speeds with S1, so I am good there, but it is a small target in the heat of battle!

For the bender, my interest is strictly Leslie speed. My previous board was an RD700 and I could assign the bender to change rotary speed as a latch. By pushing the bender all the way to the left (or right) the speed would change and stay there until the move was repeated. Very convenient because it is in a great spot for a Leslie switch and it is a large target that you can hit pretty fast.

I realize the mod lever can be used on the FA08, but I don’t think it latches. And there is also risk of pitch bending by accident in the heat of battle. I guess I could set the bend range to 0 for that particular part but if the mod lever doesn’t latch it is no help. But if it does….there is a solution (but it would take a little practice).

I know I can do Leslie speed switching with a pedal but I’m looking for hand-actuated. Pretty vexing problem on a board that is otherwise so capable!

Thanks guys, let me know if I'm overlooking something. Love my FA08!
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

Right, well, the only other method that may work is to use the new keyboard switching function. i.e. have a slow rotary on switch 1, and fast on 2.

Trouble is you won't get the gradual speed changes (i.e. brake simulation), but you'd be able to switch between them quick and easy.

On the plus, you could essentially set up to 16 different organs with varying degrees of drawbars/rotary speeds etc.

I know that's not quite what you was looking for though, and i agree, with the organs there should be better control on the rotaries, it's something i've read several times on this forum before.
scramble
Posts: 88
Joined: 20:21, 16 November 2007

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by scramble »

bennyseven wrote:There is one more bug fixed, although it is not listed in the release notes.
This bug here is fixed. Thanks Roland. Maybe they're browsing this forum...? Nobody knows.
They'd be fools if they weren't having a look at least now and then.
scramble
Posts: 88
Joined: 20:21, 16 November 2007

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by scramble »

stevel wrote:
locojohn wrote: For me FA-08 is well above average even without 2.0 firmware update. For me it's about the sound quality, versatility, keybed feel (I also have a grand piano), sound layering and synth control, so I can't see how it's an average board otherwise.
Most real players hate the action and the key size. I'm only a somewhat decent player and I despise the key size.
??? Where on Earth do you get this from? How many of the tens of thousands of 'real players' have you personally met and talked about the FA-08 with? I'm a real player and I love the action. It's much better than most of its rivals. Don't have any problem with the key size either.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

I know for sure that Roland UK read these forums as i've discussed it with them.

How much of that feedback ever makes it Japan, who knows! lol
locojohn
Posts: 26
Joined: 13:42, 17 June 2017

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by locojohn »

scramble wrote:??? Where on Earth do you get this from? How many of the tens of thousands of 'real players' have you personally met and talked about the FA-08 with? I'm a real player and I love the action. It's much better than most of its rivals. Don't have any problem with the key size either.
Thanks, scramble. :) I completely share your experience, only didn't want to waste time arguing.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by Skijumptoes »

scramble wrote: ??? Where on Earth do you get this from? How many of the tens of thousands of 'real players' have you personally met and talked about the FA-08 with? I'm a real player and I love the action. It's much better than most of its rivals. Don't have any problem with the key size either.
I've read a little bit of dislike on the -08 keys also, not a great deal, but for me personally they feel quite slow and sluggish when they don't have to be (i.e. there's not much resistance there when pushing down, yet the return is slow), but i mainly play semi-weighted so they would. Super for for piano/rhodes/acoustic guitar etc. that sort of thing, but the keys on the upcoming -07, if it were available, would've been my ideal sweet spot.

I've seen FAAAR more hate for the -06 though, ridiculously so in fact. And i can see where people come from as when you play an -06 next to a -08 it feels like a toy. But it's not so bad once you've used it for a while.

Of course, it's very subjective. Some people come to the FA as a piano/composition tool, others come to it for synth/beat making reasons, others just want an all-rounder for studio recording/sequencing, then you have those who want something that covers most genres for their live band.

Without doubt the -08 is of higher quality and keys are lovely on piano, but as an all-rounder, or someone who wants to play more synth based tunes it i's a little sluggish on the return - but that's not really a dig at the -08 because you can't have both worlds.

You also have to be careful with how they sit, i had mine on a rack tilted forwards and the action wasn't great. And i've seen several mentions to that in the past also, which can give a bit of bad feedback across social media/forums etc.

One thing for sure though is that the -07 is a smart move by Roland, and i can't wait to try one.
scramble
Posts: 88
Joined: 20:21, 16 November 2007

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by scramble »

Most companies get stick for their keybed feels on the internet, especially on lower-priced models. And if you play other companies' keyboards you know why. The modern lower-priced Yamaha hammer-action keybeds are not good at all. And the Krome semi-weighted keybeds, although they feel okay, have some serious issues, such as keys not sounding when you play them towards the back of the key, which is how you often hit a black key in a chord. (I have played an FA-06, though, and I agree that the keybed wasn't anything to write home about.)

>but for me personally they feel quite slow and sluggish when they don't have to be

I agree they are a little bit on the sluggish side, although that's not generally a problem for me. Some people have said that the key return is not fast enough for them to play very quick repeated notes. I can play repeated notes pretty fast thanks to a classical upbringing, but I can't play fast enough for this to occur. But if I repeat the same note using the index finger on two hands, alternating fingers so it's extremely fast, then it does happen that not all the notes sound. So I can appreciate that for someone playing high-level classical, or semi-classical, music the FA-08 may not be right for them. But if you're playing that sort of music on stage then you really need something better, like an RD-800, or a Kawai, or a real piano.

As for playing fast synth lines, yes, a slightly lighter or quicker keyboard feel would be good for that, especially seeing as there are more players like me now who want to take only one keyboard out on gigs, instead of one hammer-action keyboard and one synth action keyboard. (I don't know if it's true that "it doesn't have to be like that". Maybe it can be simply adjusted. Or maybe that's an inescapable part of the mechanism. Anyone know?)

But overall I think -- I don't claim to know how 'real players' in general think, although my experience is that the 'real players' I know mostly like Roland keybeds -- that the FA08 keybed is an excellent keybed for the price.
anotherscott
Posts: 513
Joined: 19:05, 1 July 2010

Re: New System Program 2.0

Post by anotherscott »

scramble wrote:And the Krome semi-weighted keybeds, although they feel okay, have some serious issues, such as keys not sounding when you play them towards the back of the key, which is how you often hit a black key in a chord.
Response towards the back of the keys is also one of the knocks on the FA-06, though Korg is worse. I don't dislike the FA-06 action as much as some people do, but I'm glad to see that the FA-07 looks to be better, supposedly similar if not identical to what was in the Jupiter 50, which is a pretty nice action. (I briefly had and returned a VR-09 which has the same action as the FA-06. I didn't return it over the action, there were other limitations that prevented it from being a board I would have really found useful.)

Like some others here, I found the FA-08 action kind of sluggish feeling, though its sheer size and weight were what stopped me from looking at it too closely. (Even the Yamaha MOX8 I sometimes use is right on the edge of portability for me.) I'm seriously considering buying the FA-07, though. 7x keys and the new software make it so much more appealing to me than the FA-06 was, and better action too!
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