EXP-11??

[progg]

Thank you for your answer!

[progg]

Anyone tried out both EXP-02 and EXP-11 could confirm there is not literally some overlap between both expansions? Judging on the sounds lists alone, there is. Patches like M12 Strings, Memory MG, SH Dullbass, SH101 Bass, MG Punchbass, Shmoog...the last one dates back even in the 2000's Canvas set. So, are these EXP-11 presets introducing new samples named in an "old fashion" way or is it just another Roland recycling?

p.s. I don't have FA, so I can't try this myself.

[Jdoo]

There are 125 programs and 222 waveforms in the EXP-11 collection. If there are a handful of duplicates, I wouldn’t be surprised nor disappointed. We aren’t able to mix and match the EXP sets ourselves, so it may even be preferable to have a few popular PCM Tones in more than one EXP set. Roland recycling? This statement doesn’t make sense, and frankly, who cares if there are a handful of duplicates out of the few thousand free Axial tones. I think it was Ed Diaz who mentioned in one of his videos, that Roland used to charge ~ $230 street price, for these collections. Currently, there are 19 expansion packs for the FA… $230 per… = $4370 worth of free additional sounds for the FA. Maybe the FA isn’t for you though?

[stevel]

Anyone tried out both EXP-02 and EXP-11 could confirm there is not literally some overlap between both expansions? Judging on the sounds lists alone, there is. Patches like M12 Strings, Memory MG, SH Dullbass, SH101 Bass, MG Punchbass, Shmoog...the last one dates back even in the 2000's Canvas set. So, are these EXP-11 presets introducing new samples named in an "old fashion" way or is it just another Roland recycling?

p.s. I don't have FA, so I can't try this myself.

I'm not sure why it matters if you don't have an FA...

I've tried both EXP-02 and EXP-11 but I can't really confirm that the PCM waveforms are exclusive to each. I would suspect there is some duplication within Roland's entire PCM library, not only between the two EXPs but within the FA's factory sounds themselves.

IOW, there could be identical PCMs between EXPs, but the resulting patches are tweaked differently.

I saw the "Shmoog" name too. I don't know that it's an *exact* reproduction of the sound or even the same PCM from decades ago. I know there are some patches on the FA (factory sounds) that are "homages to" patches from like a JV 5080 or something, but when I listen to that JV 5080 patch on vintage synth explorer it's not the same sound - just "inspired by" or "in the vein of" more than a reproduction or "reissue" if you will.

My other assumption is that each memory slot in the FA has a fixed amount of memory so that only so many Megabytes of samples and settings can be loaded in. My downloaded files for each of the EXP sets is exactly the same size so that leads me to believe that PCM samples must be either of higher quality or longer or more complex in some way because some sets have only 30 or 40 patches while others have more like in the 100s.

So it very well could be that the EXP 11 set has either "better" or "newly digitized" or "longer" or whatever samples than either the factory sounds, the other EXPs, or even any older PCMs from older synths they still have on file. I suppose it could vary from "recycled" to "re-mastered" to "re-sampled" depending on how much time they want to put into them.

FWIW, I did some reviews recently here in another thread and included EXP 11 in a different thread.

My conclusion is that "Synth Legends Pure" (or the "non-Pure" version) already does a lot (and more) of what EXP 11 does. SLP is "all Roland" where EXP 11 is "a lot of Roland and some other Rolands and others).

SLP seems to concentrate on the "J" and "D" series synths (as well as SH, TB, etc.) while EXP 11 has some of that as well as some "SC" Roland, and then Moog, Ob, M-12, etc.

IMHO, the FA already covers these sounds pretty well from the Factory and there's not really anything in SLP or EXP 11 you couldn't get from the FA itself by tweaking the presets (and SLP must use the FA's own PCMs anyway) - there might be something unique (because of the PCM it's built from) in EXP 11 but it's not that big of a difference to make EXP 11 a "must have" for the casual player IMHO.

If you are a "synth hound", "vintage synth enthusiast", "roland fan boy", or something like that, then yes, the FA is a great instrument out of the box, and EXP 11 together with EXP 02 (or 01, or 03) and SLP makes it a "all-around synth masterpiece" (at least as far as it can be expanded with current offerings).

But the way I see it is, if you're not that big on vintage synths, and the factory sounds do most of what you need, and you'd rather not waste a slot on EXP 11, then don't. SLP can supplant the factory sounds nicely, and then you still have both your expansion slots for TWO other EXPs.

So in that sense, EXP 11 or SLP is redundant (depending which you like better) but EXP 11 uses up an EXP slot where SLP doesn't. SLP uses built-in PCMs where EXP 11 doesn't (though it's possible some are not unique between the factory PCMs or the other EXPs).

HTH
Steve

[stevel]

And having listened the youtube demos, I'm not so excited about what I hear (factory synth bass category). Maybe EXP-02 and the Instegra SH-101 Pure would do the trick?

Hey progg, here's the thing with the FA - you can load TWO EXPs.

But you can download ALL ELEVEN of the currently available EXPs and put them on a USB stick and load up any pair at any time you want.

So your best bet is to buy it, download all the EXPs and save them to a stick, and load them up 2 by 2 until you find the ones that best suit your need, then leave that pair in there.

EXP 02 has a lot but I think EXP 01 has more. EXP 11 might add some more as well.

SH 101 is a "subset" of "Synth Legends Pure" which basically has all of the other sets within it (though there might be a patch omitted here or there).

These "expansions" don't use EXP slots, only internal memory - they are essentially newly created sounds from the stock PCMs, saved as "user" patches - just like you could do yourself.

SLP is 128 patches. Each of the others are subsets - so SH 101 might only be say, a dozen presets or so.

So you can load as many or as few of these as you like - until you fill up all your user memory patches.

[Fleer]

Must have overlooked something. There are 11 expansions including samples but also another 8 only carrying new presets?

[Skijumptoes]

The EXP expansions (of which there are 11), only utilise the 'older' PCM engine of the FA, and these come complete with new waveforms and patch presets utilising those new waveforms.

The remaining Integra and FA expansions via the axial site are presets only, which can make use of any of the stock waveforms/engines of the FA.

They make use of the supernatural (Synth) engine mainly, and not the 'older' PCM engine.

You save them to the available user slots in the FA's memory, and are not limited like the EXP expansions (2 slots), and you can also just mix and match to take the presets that you want.

[progg]

Thanks for all the replies. Including those who tried to presume what I'm after. I just consider getting FA. Not too sure at this time. That's why I'm trying to get information which is not available in the Roland site, youtube, music stores user reviews, etc - all of those I've read/seen lots of times. So I know what EXPs recreates...Anyway, just wanted to know if there are "copies" in the EXP-11. But you may be right - there are indeed way too many sounds available. Personally (if I had an FA), having SL already available, I would appreciate some more newly sampled moogs, oberheims and prophets (different from the ones in EXP-02/SRX-07) - for those who cannot afford analog gear. But that's just me.

BTW I'm waiting for FA-07 release to finally decide if I'd pull the trigger. Tried couple of times FA-06, but didn't enjoy its keybed, FA-08 is a bit too heavy to carry around, FA-07 seems to be the right compromise for someone like me used to Nord Electro's waterfall. In the meantime there's last opportunity to get JP-50, checked out lots of reviews and videos, got familiar with some of its limitations and its huge sound too. For my approach it seems FA is more intuitive, just been wondering if JP-50 is more reliable and roadworthy than FA.

As for EXPs - I'm a big fan of electric pianos so if I get FA, one of the slots would be loaded with EXP-05, would put also SL and some other Integra packs. The second slot - EXP-02 ot EXP-11...

My first synth was Roland back in 1992, so I guess some nostalgia hit me..

[Skijumptoes]

As good as the expansions are, i mainly use my own presets, or those already existing via the Supernatural engine. EXP (PCM) did fill in a gap for a poor Farfisa like sound that i wanted for a bit, and there's some nice evolving pads due to the matrix style 4 partial PCM engine. Other than that, i only use EXP's for 'fillers'.

All my core work/sound is done without any of the expansions.

I think the E.Piano's sound lovely stock on the FA, and are REALLY enjoyable to play too, the supernatural EP's respond really nice and that's something that's not immediately obvious when watching a video. I barely make it past the first 7-8 presets and i have the sound i want.

Once you've done it a few times, the FA is also so easy to program your own patches, there's far too many waveforms there to start with - and in all honesty, the only true 'expansion' of the sounds is the EXP-3 (World) collection for me, as it really does add some uniqueness, and not variations on current themes.

Oh, and some of the expansions (EXP-1 i think) that adds a load of sampled electronica loops etc. That's quite fun to play with, but nothing i would actually make use of.

So classic analog sounds, well, they're normally all pretty basic and i would go program what you want, and you can add as much 'analog' as you want then. Sometimes the presets have a little bit too much MFX/Delay going on for my liking. But i like to go out to a separate FX rack.

[progg]

Thanks, Skijumptoes!

[stevel]

BTW I'm waiting for FA-07 release to finally decide if I'd pull the trigger. Tried couple of times FA-06, but didn't enjoy its keybed, FA-08 is a bit too heavy to carry around, FA-07 seems to be the right compromise for someone like me

I agree with you. If the keys are an issue for you, get the 07. The "shaved" keys of the 06 present some problems for keyboard players - even "hobby" players like me - who are used to "standard" key sizes (on synths). It seems right now, the 07 will have "standard" size keys. If I fall into some money, the very first thing I'd do is get an 07 over the 06.

As for EXPs - I'm a big fan of electric pianos so if I get FA, one of the slots would be loaded with EXP-05, would put also SL and some other Integra packs. The second slot - EXP-02 ot EXP-11...

I did a review of all the EXPs (at that time, still 10, I did 11 in its own thread) recently since many people had been asking about them.

EXP 01, 02, 03, and 10 are the EXPs with the most and most different sounds in them.

EXP 02 has lots of EPs.

I don't think the quality of the EPs in EXP 05 is any better nor does it warrant "wasting a slot" on these when EXP 02 is available instead (which also gives you way more Organs and other things as well).

EXP 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, and 11 are what I'd call "specific use" EXPs and really do do exactly what they say they do - give you more versions of "Concert Pianos" or "Strings" or "Electric Pianos".

02 and 05 would give you "all" the Electric Pianos you can get. You may want that. But the Supernatural EPs are damn fine. You might not need anything beyond them!

EXP 01 and 11 would be a "synth enthusiast's dream" - add SLP in there and you've got a really great collection of synth sounds.

But I feel 04, 05, 06, 08 (i think) and 11 really duplicate a lot of what the factory sounds already give you. If you add in 02, EXP 04, 05, 06, and 11 are really just "duplicates" - they may be different, but there's a lot of "overlap".

EXP 01 - great modern sounds but based on a lot of vintage gear - great for modern EDM styled stuff.

EXP 02 - great "all around" collection - greatly expands on Piano, EP, Organ, and other keyboard instruments (including some vintage synths/samplers) as well as Guitar, Strings, Brass, etc. something in almost every category.

EXP 03 - World sounds does what it says it is, but also adds in a lot of categories and sort of "fills in" a lot of those sounds the FA doesn't do already - it does vintage and modern, EXP 03 kind of fills in those "new age" sounds of the 80s and 90s.

EXP 10 - great collection for scoring if you need "traditional" orchestral instruments but also adds a lot of additional useful things.

The rest of them are "specialty use" sets, meaning that I don't think they're worth installing unless you really just want or need more of what those sets contains that what you can get out of the factory sounds and EXP 01, 02, 03, or 10.

Since EXP 11 sort of covers ground that the stock, EXP 01 (or 02) and SLP covers, if you want just more of that, it's fine. Otherwise you might want to go for a "more diverse" set such as 02 (or 01) or 03.

[Fleer]

Thanks Skijumptoes!

[progg]

Stevel, thank you for being so informative. Obviously the best way to evaluate an instrument is to really lay hands on it. Speaking of sounds, I'm mainly interested in EPs, synths and organs (in no particular order, depends on what style I dig in particular moment). Roland seems to remain the most interesting company among the three "big ones". Roland's approach to workstations, the release of System and new JD lines (and the sadly deserted JP80 and 50 )kind of proves that. It's always the sound, of course. I've been adoring Yamaha for years, didn't get any of their Motifs for some reasons, but kept my trusty AN1x, sadly they never produced a proper successor of it. Korg tries to kill everything with their Kronos and this is a mighty and, in a way, complete attempt. Anyway, off-topics aside, thanks to all for information ans opinions.