06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Forum for Roland FA-06/08
Post Reply
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by stevel »

So, the more I play the keys on the 06, the more I hate them for piano.

Now, I know it wasn't a hammer action keyboard and I was fine with an all around keybed, and I do like the "feel" of it.

I've been playing around with velocities to try to get the best I can get out of it.

Here is the biggest issue for me (and I believe this is known issue):

When hitting a key hard, especially a black key, which you don't have to hit as hard for it to top out, the keyboard is sending velocity values in the 110 and above range. This always triggers the harsh "clang" on the Supernatural Piano sounds.

You can change the keyboard velocity to "Heavy" and run that up to +9, but even with that it's still very easy to hit it hard and trigger that really high velocity.

You can also in the individual part go in and set it to velocity curve 1 or 2, which changes the slope of how it gets to the higher velocity.

But what I've noticed is it seems to figure these things from the "top down" - meaning, if you hit it hard, you get 127 (or 115+) and the clangy sound no matter what.

Al the adjustments just affect how everything below that responds.

I have an A-800 (Roland) which I tried last night and as hard as I could hit the damn thing it would only give me a velocity of maybe 105.

So I have to pound on the A-800 to get 105 but all I have to do is barely smack an Eb on the FA-06 and it's already above 115.

What I'd like to do is "limit" the amount of velocity the FA keys send so it never exceeds a certain point, just like that A-800.

But I don't see any way to do this.

The Velocity Limit Upper and Velocity Fade Upper *sort of* do this.

If you set the Upper Limit at 100, what that means is if you strike the key any harder than 100, it doesn't play the note!

If you use that in tandem with the Velocity FADE, it sort of acts like a "compressor" - you can set it so if you hit the key above 100, it still sounds, but it essentially can adjust the volume down so that the values over 100 don't sound any louder than those at 100 (with a lot of tweaking BTW).

But, the problem again is, it still triggers the "over 100 sound of the sound" - so it still sounds like you hit it at 115 or 127, just now at a lower volume, much like a compressor.

So that's no solution for restricting the top end.

There is a "fixed velocity" setting but of course that makes any note come out at that exact velocity - restricting it to a single velocity.

What I want is to have the keyboard run from 0-110 rather than 0-127.

I don't see any way to keep the sound itself from changing to the "clang" above 115 or so.

So it seems like my options are to use the Controller for Piano sounds when I want good-sounding expressive piano, to find a piano sound that doesn't "clang" like that but still sounds good, or to live with it.

Of course, I don't want that kind of velocity nuance on all sounds - and even for piano, live, sometimes you just need it to sound full out no matter what so it cuts through the mix (who needs dynamics in a rock band ! :-)

So in some cases I'd want less dynamic range - which is easy enough to do because you can bring the bottom values up to the top easy enough with all the settings.

It's limiting the top end but not the bottom that's irking me.

I'm pretty sure there's not much I can do, but just in case I've missed something I was hoping for some ideas.

TIA,
Steve
Escaperocks
Posts: 27
Joined: 22:30, 23 June 2017

Re: 06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by Escaperocks »

Hey Steve,

You haven't missed anything. The construction of the keybed itself on the 06 limits what you can accomplish with velocity settings for typical piano tones.

Most people I see around here with an FA06 have an 88 note weighted controller underneath to play the piano tones on the FA06 in their live rigs.
User avatar
piaknowguy
Posts: 2071
Joined: 22:29, 14 April 2004
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: 06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by piaknowguy »

The construction of the keybed itself on the 06 limits what you can accomplish with velocity settings for typical piano tones.
That is correct when 'typical' means Supernatural piano patches. When using PCM-based pianos the tone-switching options coupled with velocity range selection found in the Tone Map Table when editing a patch can be a powerful option in getting the light action of the keyboard to respond the way you want.

Cheers,

PiaKnowGuy
Joe P
Posts: 159
Joined: 21:44, 20 November 2014

Re: 06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by Joe P »

Steve,

Have you tried to reduce the clang via EQ?

Also, some piano tones might be clangier than others. Maybe you can find one in the EXP packs that works better for you?

Regards,
Joe
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: 06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by stevel »

Thanks all.

Yeah, I think I'll just use my other controller for "nuanced" work, and probably just have to be careful about what patch I've selected.

I glanced at some of the PCMs to see if I could edit the velocity within the tone itself but didn't really delve into it, but that could be a really good solution.

It's funny but live, I often wanted it "loud all the time" in a band setting because, well, you know why - you can't hear it otherwise - no room for subtle dynamics in a lot of rock band settings!!!

What I'll probably try to do is get used to be a little more controlled in the way I play on the FA keyboard.

It's just really easily triggered to full velocity, especially on black keys but even on the white keys if I'm not careful. I think I've just been so used to having to "bang" on the keyboard live to get all the volume I need out of it that I really play too hard (even so, I think the FA keyboard is overly sensitive).

Plus, using "less nuance" in your playing means you can set your velocities lighter and keep the sound overall louder (so it "compresses up" if you like).
theshine
Posts: 47
Joined: 08:42, 19 December 2016

Re: 06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by theshine »

Is the 06 keybed that bad if you aren't using it for Piano? (I have a Forte 7 for that)

Can get an 06 pretty cheap used or pay over double the price for a new 07, mainly use it for rock 80's,90's rock covers. Sounds I used are Brass, Flutes, the odd organ but mostly use KB3 for that.

Is the Fa07 worth 2.5 times the price you think?

Scott
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: 06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by stevel »

theshine wrote:Is the 06 keybed that bad if you aren't using it for Piano? (I have a Forte 7 for that)

Can get an 06 pretty cheap used or pay over double the price for a new 07, mainly use it for rock 80's,90's rock covers. Sounds I used are Brass, Flutes, the odd organ but mostly use KB3 for that.

Is the Fa07 worth 2.5 times the price you think?

Scott
I saw your other post. The 07 isn't 2.5 times the price is it? That'd be close to 3 grand?

At any rate, I saw you said you owned a couple over the years.

I find the keybed fine for most stuff (but I still don't like the "shaved" keys) but for Piano it just doesn't cut it.

I'd love to have a decent 88 key controller with good weighting to use as I understand the piano sounds in the 06 are the same as the 08 (and 07) but the "highest velocity possible by barely striking the key" issue keep them from sounding as good as they can.

I just need to give in and start playing the lottery.
theshine
Posts: 47
Joined: 08:42, 19 December 2016

Re: 06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by theshine »

Thanks Steve..

Kinda... I got a used 06 for $800 the new FA-07 is about $2000 here so close to it. I think the Forte keybed will be great to trigger piano sounds from so will be interested to see how it sounds. Last time I had a FA-08 with a pc3k6 on top.

Scott
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: 06 (specifically) Velocity Question

Post by Skijumptoes »

I think that's the biggest issue with the -06 playing expressively across the velocities for Piano, but in saying that you haven't got the full range to hit the bass and high notes anyway which is needed.

I think for synth playing and bass lines the -06 is really great. Also finger drumming is slick but again, i do find that you get some weirdness between hi-hats and snares being overly loud at times.

The -06 is a gem, particularly with it's secondhand availability, add something like a cheap Nektar LX88+ and you instantly get a decent enough keyboard with 88 keys too, plus the FA can power it :)
Post Reply