What I just discovered about EXPs...

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stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by stevel »

So someone mentioned that the "SRX" ones in the EXPs were from the SRX expansion boards for Fantoms, JVs, etc.

Well, I just looked at them and there are a dozen and they are named exactly what our EXPs are (well, darn close).

There is an Ultimate Keys, World, Orchestral, Strings, Brass, EP, Concert Piano, Piano, Studio, and "dance" one.

They have a Drums and a "Platinum Trax" one.

We have, in #11, a "Vintage Synth" one - so it's nice they deviated. But if you want to speculate on 12, it wouldn't surprise me if it was the same Drums one...

But here's what I discovered - and this may be old news to some - but the names of the patches in the SRX board for Ultimate Keys is almost identical to our EXP ultimate keys.

At this point I'm not sure if they sound identical (as with my previous post for the Synth Legends additions) to the SRX in the JVs and Fantoms, but if they do, there's yet another "new synth" in an expansion.

IOW while this now tells me Roland is recycling a lot of sounds, it means our FAs can also be Junos and Jupiters (with Synth Legends) and JVs and Fantoms (at least in terms of expansions) as well!

While some might have preferred "new" sounds as opposed to re-hashed sounds, I'm not so disappointed to find out they aren't new - they may be a little different, I haven't checked, but still, now I feel like once again it "justifies" my purchase of the FA - it's like 7 or 8 Roland synths in one. Which is pretty cool IMHO.

And heck, if you want completely fresh sounds, you should make them yourself anyway so they're unique!

BTW, I just tried a VP-330 Choir from the SRX (02 I think) and it sounds pretty much identical to my old Sound Canvas VP-330 Choir patch (while the default FA factory VP does not).
Paul99
Posts: 117
Joined: 18:05, 23 June 2017

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by Paul99 »

These are the SRX packs I discovered:
SRX-01 Dynamic Drum Kits
SRX-02 Concert Piano
SRX-03 Studio SRX
SRX-04 Symphonique Strings
SRX-05 Supreme Dance
SRX-06 Complete Orchestra
SRX-07 Ultimate Keys
SRX-08 Platinum Trax
SRX-09 World Collection
SRX-10 Big Brass Ensemble
SRX-11 Complete Piano
SRX-12 Classic EPs
SRX-96 World Collection and Legendary XP Essentials (special SRX board 2008)
SRX-97 Jon Lord's Rock Organ (special SRX board 2007)
SRX-98 Analog Essentials (special SRX board 2006)
SRX-99 Special Wave Expansion (promo released mid-2004)

With EXP-01-EXP-11 I guess the SRX packs 01-12 are covered with the exception of SRX-01 Drums.
That would leave the range SRX-96-SRX-99 also to possibly being released.
I am particularly interested in SRX-97!
0kk0p3kk4
Posts: 152
Joined: 07:53, 7 May 2014

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by 0kk0p3kk4 »

The real srx-97 isnt much of a card but the idea of someone making a deep purple organ sound set would be cool :)
Paul99
Posts: 117
Joined: 18:05, 23 June 2017

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by Paul99 »

Well....there ain't no such thing as a Deep Purple sound. John Lord uses more or even further more distortion on his B3. Sometimes you cannot even hear it's a Hammnond at all. But I get your point. I just bought my FA-06 this week and I knew the organ was not the strongest feature. It has although a nice Hammond sound on EXP-02. I am now experimenting with combi's of different organs. Unfortunately I am not yet succeeding in the way I would have liked.... I find it still odd that a very simple and old VSTi Plgin called VB3 from GSi sounds so awesome. It is rather cheap (still available for 50 euro!) and sounds amazing. If only that engine would be available in our FA-06....I would gladly pay for it!
Fleer
Posts: 100
Joined: 03:32, 22 July 2014
Location: Boston/Cambridge

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by Fleer »

Check out that new Blue3 from GG-Audio. Just released. Beats anything out there except for the real thing. And then some.
neomad
Posts: 157
Joined: 15:06, 26 April 2017

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by neomad »

Let me disagree on the organs.

Tonewheel supernatural rocks if you spend some time programing the drawbars, percussion and effects.

Sounds really good and in stage it really rocks.

Did you try to replicate a patch from your Vsti on FA?
bennyseven
Posts: 699
Joined: 18:01, 19 April 2014
Location: Germany

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by bennyseven »

There were also some guys using a Ventilator/Minivent with FA and reported they are happy with it.
Paul99
Posts: 117
Joined: 18:05, 23 June 2017

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by Paul99 »

I have never heard of Blue3 from GG-Audio. But is more expensive than VB3. And the problem is that I don't want to use a PC in my band. I just have my FA-06.

Neomad, I tried recreating the tonewheel settings from the VB3 in the FA-06, but the sound from the FA-06 doesn't come even close. Problem: playing only single notes already sounds different. But when you play a chord it gets only worse. And that is already with a simple 888000000 setting.
So I would love to hear from your patches you created because I failed totally.

One final note: I am definitely not complaining about my FA-06. I knew I found the organ the weakest part of the keyboard, at least in my opinion. And there is still an option to use a Ventilator or a Burn. But I would love have my FA-06 doing it all. Well, I can have a dream......;-)
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by stevel »

Paul99 wrote: One final note: I am definitely not complaining about my FA-06. I knew I found the organ the weakest part of the keyboard, at least in my opinion. And there is still an option to use a Ventilator or a Burn. But I would love have my FA-06 doing it all. Well, I can have a dream......;-)
Paul, in all my old Rolands, any drive is in the PCM itself rather than created by a "catch all" distortion effect.

I find anything in the FA with an MFX drive or distortion on it just to sound horribly cheesy.

Since I'm a guitarist who plays with all kinds of drives, distortions, and fuzzes, and am pretty picky about ones that sound "hi-fi" versus ones that sound "organic", I just go in and turn off the MFX drive on any patch that has it to see what it ACTUALLY sounds like!

But if you're picky about drive like I am, trying to use the Tonewheel organ with any kind of effects-supplied overdrive (what is in the Rotary effect) is an exercise in futility. I suppose I could spend days tweaking the MFX drive like I do with my pedal effects, but honestly it's not that big of a deal for me as I'm usually a "pick a patch that works" guy for keys - especially since I lack any experience with "the real thing".

If you've loaded in EXP 02, try the Cabinet Series patch (0086) for a kind of drive that I despise. The drive on the Purple of Gimme Some Lovin' (Smoked water is horrible) ones aren't to my taste either. I know from guitar that live, one always finds out the drive level they set at home suddenly seems way too low in performance, so these may sound great at band volume (and probably do actually) but for recording work at home they just don't do it for me.

The two "HarmOrgan" patches (81 and 82) have been the most versatile for me. I'm not saying they're great or sound realistic or anything, but when I was playing live and needed a sound that was like that, those were the best things I found to do what I needed.
Paul99
Posts: 117
Joined: 18:05, 23 June 2017

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by Paul99 »

I agree Steve on all you are saying.
Indeed, the drive/distortion is also a problem. It doesn't sound natural at all to my ears. I have the same problem in finding a decent software distortion plugin for my guitar samples. I am not a guitarist so I have to use samples to spice up my own music. But it is really hard for me to get a nice distorted guitar sound.

I agree also with your opinion of the the two "HarmOrgan" patches (81 and 82) to be the most versatile for me too. I heard a demo from a guy on youtube who uses this patch and it sounded great for that kinda music.

It's funny how you use the term "picky". It reminds me of Ed Diaz. I have watched all his video's and I noticed him using this word in his video's about how to create your own organ sound: the drawbars setting and the Lesley settings. He also used it in his video about creating your own piano sound.

But I would love to hear good examples from members here who created their own hammond-kinda sounds. And that they will prove me completely wrong about the organ sounds capabilities of the FA-06!
AnalogHero
Posts: 50
Joined: 09:13, 16 April 2017
Location: Germany

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by AnalogHero »

Hi,

i found something odd in the Exps. In both Exp-01 and Exp-11 there is a patch called HiLo303mod. Identical name but different sound.
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by stevel »

AnalogHero wrote:Hi,

i found something odd in the Exps. In both Exp-01 and Exp-11 there is a patch called HiLo303mod. Identical name but different sound.
Interesting. I thought I saw some names in EXP 11 that appeared in some other set as well, but I didn't try them side-by-side.

It wouldn't surprise me, but now that I've learned the Synth Legends patches are accurate reproductions of the patches from the original synths, and the EXPs named the same as the SRXs are likely the same sound, I'm less inclined to think - like I used to - that the sounds are simply "inspired by" and use the same name but sound different'.

It could be possible with EXP 11 being a "vintage" set that the patch in EXP 11 actually sounds more "correct" to the vintage patch than the one in EXP 01, which may be a "modernized" version if you like.
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by stevel »

Paul99 wrote: problem in finding a decent software distortion plugin for my guitar samples. I am not a guitarist so I have to use samples to spice up my own music. But it is really hard for me to get a nice distorted guitar sound.
Paul, here's something to try with guitars:

Most guitarists are used to hearing the sound from their amp.

Amp Modellers and Cabinet Simulators do a great job of getting a *close miked* guitar tone like what has been traditionally recorded on albums over the decades.

However, even those recordings still do not sound like what comes out of an amp, and to get that, engineers run High and Low Pass Filters on guitar tracks.

It sounds kind of counterintuitive because you'd think a amp sim and cabinet sim would make it sound like an amp right? But it doesn't - it makes it sound like the mic - an inch from the grille, hears the amp, as opposed to what the amp sounds like "in the room" coming through the speakers.

And that difference is because speakers are essentially filters, cutting off the highs and lows.

If you look at this chart (scroll down):

https://www.jensentone.com/vintage_ceramic/c12n

You'll see that there's not much energy below 100 Hz, and not much above 10K, with it starting to slope off around 5 K.

Engineers often further sculpt this to get it out of the way of he Bass and sometimes some higher instruments or overtones.

Try in your DAW to pass your guitar signal through an EQ plug in that gives you this kind of shape, and I think you'll find it improves it - or makes it "more guitar-like" as opposed to thin and sizzly and too hi-fi sounding.

It will take some experimentation becuase results will vary with various amounts of drive, the frequency content of the original signal and so on.

But this can be the crucial step in making guitar tracks sound more like guitar tracks as opposed to "fake" guitar tracks.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: What I just discovered about EXPs...

Post by Skijumptoes »

I sometimes get better results with the organs if i play with the master EQ and Compressor settings to drive certain frequencies harder than others.

Also, overlaying splits on Organs definitely yields better results even if you're only using certain drawbar settings per part. Trouble is, if using multiple parts to get the organ sound you want, to recall it in future, you're having to save to a studio set, plus the separate patches which isn't ideal for one sound!
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