Basic synth structure of FA-08?

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EricWatkins
Posts: 38
Joined: 13:47, 2 July 2005

Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by EricWatkins »

Hi everyone. I just received my FA-08 but I've actually been borrowing a friend's unit so I've had a chance to test drive it really well for the past week. I have to tell you, I love this thing! I've owned too many keyboards to mention, including many Roland units. I am impressed.

So here's the deal though, and yes, I've read the manual (twice). I see that there are tones, parts, and Studio Sets. I see how I can easily build Studio Sets for stacks/layers etc. That is really cool. What I don't understand, is, if I edit a part in a Studio Set, like the "0001 Full Grand 1", to make it a little different, just as an example, and then I save that tone, does that overwrite the only version of "0001 Full Grand 1"? Or does it make a user version and I will always have the original to go back to if I like it better for other applications or Studio Sets? I'm just confused as to where I can or can't do damage as far as overwriting things. I love programming and making sounds for cover songs and such, but before I go in there a just start tweaking things to my heart's content inside of a Studio Set, by editing Parts and changing their tones, or whatever, I want to know if I'm going to be ok to do so or if need to be careful?

Hope this makes sense. I mean, like on my Yamaha MoXF6, you have patches that are made up of elements and then Performances comprising of patches. So elements are always there to be used, basically like your basic PCM waveforms I guess. If I edit a Patch, when I save it, it makes sure to have me save it in a User slot, so the original preset I started with won't get overwritten. Same with Performances. If I change the Patches within a Performance, at the Performance level, it just gets saved as a Performance but the raw Patches aren't affected. However, if I adjust the actual patch used in a Performance, then it will be affected in any other Performances that also utilize that Patch.

Hope I've been a bit clearer than I think on this, lol.

If someone could just give me the cliff's notes version of the synth structure building blocks, or link me to something that explains it better than the manual, that would be great. Thank you!
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Candy
Posts: 274
Joined: 06:30, 15 November 2008

Re: Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by Candy »

Hi Eric, welcome to the FA-Family.

When you edit a preset tone and save it, saving is only possible in the user memory, so you have this tone twice. One in the Presets an on in the User-Tones. The presets are the originals and cannot been overwritten, because the tones are in a ROM.
When you edit a User-Tone, you can overwrite the old one by saving the tone on the same User-Place or can keep the original User-Tone by saving the edited one on a new User-Place? Understood?

Candy
Joe P
Posts: 159
Joined: 21:44, 20 November 2014

Re: Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by Joe P »

Eric,

The changes you make to a part are saved with the studio set, not with the tone.

If you edit and then save the tone, it will go back to the section where it came from (i.e. your edited Wurli patch will go back into E. Piano), it will just have a USER tag instead of for instance a PRST tag. So it helps to re-name the tone so it is easier to find within that section.

Also, you CAN edit and save a tone while working in a studio set. SHIFT+EDIT TONE or something like that. Has to be the highlighted/active tone.

Regards,
Joe
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by stevel »

Way over-thinking this Eric.

There are Presets, and there is User Memory.

If you make an alteration to a Preset, and then want to save it, you're saving it into a User slot.

Now you have the unmodified original, and a copy of it with some alteration. As Benny said, the original is not "overwritten".

FWIW, one of the things I find annoying about the FA is that you just can't simply turn of the effect on a single Patch. For example, if "Lead Synth 01" (example) has a delay on it, there's no way to turn off the delay with a simple button push.

You can get to the MFX screen where there's an on/off button on the screen, which is activated by the "MFX Switch" corresponding button below the screen, but that's it.

So in order to have a version without delay, you have to save a version without delay into a User Memory.

The "Studio Set" thing was a bit confusing to me at first, but hopefully this will simplify things for you:

A "Studio Set" is like a container that can hold 16 Parts (and thus 16 Patches).

In "Studio Set" View, you can see all 16 (albeit not necessarily all at once on screen).

In old Roland synths this is what might have been called "Multi-Timbral Mode".

In "Dual" View, it's STILL the whole Studio Set, but the display screen just switches views to show you only TWO (the first 2) parts so you can get to and edit parameters of only those 2 parts pretty quickly.

So the "mode" is really more like a "view filter" in where it simply displays 2 out of 16 parts.

This is like what used to be called a "Performance Mode" or something similar.

The "Split" View again just shows you the first 2 parts. But it's still really an entire Studio Set. You're just only seeing the first two, set up to Split, again with the parameters for just those two easily accessible.

The other one is simply like a non-split, non-layer "Performance Mode" where you're just playing Part 1.

And that's all you see on screen as well. The other 15 parts are "hidden from view" so to speak.

So the only difference between playing a single part in "Single" view and playing just Part 1 in a "Studio Set" in Studio View is the way the screen displays.

For some, not seeing all the other crap you're not playing can be helpful. But really, you're always playing a 16 part Studio Set, you're just limiting what you can actually see and quickly access on screen with the Single, Split, and Dual views.

HTH
Steve
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lalaland
Posts: 12
Joined: 17:20, 3 December 2017

Re: Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by lalaland »

Thanks Steve for the detailed explanation.

I have other questions regarding the User memory locations. The manual says we can have 500 user locations. But while trying to import Integra 7 give away patches, I found out that those user locations are further divided into categories, such as Supernatural synth, PCM etc. As I imported D-50, Juno 8, etc tone packages, I soon ran out of user locations and system prompted me to over right some existing user locations to accommodate new imports. To my surprise, I have found that there are full 500 initial sets are still waiting for me under the PCM, Supernatural drum or Studio set categories! I was not sure if I should import synth category tone into a drum category location as my synth category ran out, or the system would let me do this at all, or this category thing is just an illusion or something, but I am really confused exactly how many user locations are in total? Are they really categorized and have certain quota?

Another annoying aspect is even I added the World expansion slot, all the tones of the world package are displayed in under multiple categories which we have no idea how many, what and where. If you need to check out the newly installed World tones, you have to check every categories! Is there any other way to display all relevant tones under a custom category/filter such as Expansion slot 01/02, presets only or user only?
stevel
Posts: 520
Joined: 07:08, 17 May 2015

Re: Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by stevel »

lalaland wrote:Thanks Steve for the detailed explanation.

As I imported D-50, Juno 8, etc tone packages, I soon ran out of user locations
Yes this scared me at first and why I was reluctant to save "non-effected" versions of a same sound because I felt like I'd run out of user memory.

But yes, there's more than you think - but it is categorized.

And unfortunately, no, TMK you can not save a SN-S tone in a SN-D user location.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't tried it. I'll come back to this.

As far as the Integra 7 installs, here's the catch:

They are all SN-S and by default they get put in the SN-S user memory - which I believe is like 500 locations.

I'm not sure what you downloaded but it's a little tricky - there are two called "Synth Legends" and "Synth Legends Pure" - they are supposed to be the same except that the latter doesn't have effects added to them (beyond what would have been in an original patch).

Either of these contain all the other D-50, and Juno, etc. patches (or at least 95% if not all of them).

So there's no need to load in the D-50 bank AND SLP for example as you'll have all duplicates.

I made that mistake when I first got my FA, but did a factory reset and cleared it all, and then just put in SLP for 128 slots used up.

I don't really have any desire for the Super Saw, or NYC Remix, etc. banks and I don't know how many sounds are in each, but yeah I could see where you could easily max out the user memory if you put everything that's there in.

Now, I think part of the reason you have to put a SN-S in a SN-S user slot is the architecture used to edit the sounds - if you call up the edit screen on a SN-S it's different from an SN-A tone. I'm not sure if those "come with" the tone but if you notice, there aren't any downloadable SN-A or SN-D tones at Axial - and I'm betting becuase the architecture is different. This is why the roland guy says it's an "easter egg" - it's maybe more like a hack but what happened is it just so happens that the Integra SN-S architecture is the same as the FA SN-S so the tones are importable.

So I'm not sure what would happen if your try to save an SN-S sound in an SN-A slot - it may not even be an option because of the way the thing is designed.

As far as the EXPs, you can go to where it says "type" on the screen and change it to PCMS, and then go to Bank and change it to EX02 (or whichever one) and then over to the patch (0001) and scroll through them that way.

This seems to work better for me in Studio Set mode and there's something to do with the Lock icon and I always forget which way, but you can watch the numbers as you scroll and if it's scrolling in numerical order you're getting all the sounds in the EXP in order that way, rather than by category.

Once you learn how to scroll through categories like this, switch the Bank one to "User" and you can see how many user slots there are for each type. Like if you put type on "SN-A" and Bank to "User" then go to where it says 0001 (probably "init tone" if you haven't saved any of your own SN-A patches) and scroll, you see you have 128 User Sn-A locations.

So:

SN-A - 128
SN-S - 512 (my first 128 are Synth Legends Pure)
SN-D - 8 (!)
PCMS - 256
PCMD - 32

The EPXs are PCMS but don't use any of the above user locations and are just "added to" what you already have.

The Integra 7 sounds are all SN-S and by default (and probably only) go in those 512 SN-S slots above.

What I would say is, if you filled up all 512 SN-S with Integra 7 patches, tough! All you can do is delete some to make space. If you're a preset hound and you rarely or never create your own patches, then fine, fill it to the brim!

But otherwise you'll have to delete some as I'm pretty confident you can't put SN-S sounds in SN-A slots for example.

Watch out for duplicates amongst SLP and the D-50, Juno etc. sets though as you may have possibly used up all your slots through multiple import attempts and you've got a lot of duplicates or things all over the place and don't realize it.

If you can wipe it and just load in SL or SLP first (no need for both IMHO) then you can get organized from there.

Finally, as mentioned above, the number of User Studio Sets isn't all that helpful for "adding sounds" all a SS is is a "container" for existing sounds. No sounds are saved it in, they are only "called to". So for example, if you have EXP 01 installed and have one of its sounds in a SS, then you remove EXP 01 and install some other EXP, when you call up that SS again you won't be able to access that sound from EXP 01 that was in your SS.

Think of the FA as a room full of instruments and then the instrument itself as 16 people. You can ask those 16 people to pick up an instrument and play it - that's a Studio Set. Then you can have them pick up a different set of 16 instruments - that's another Studio Set.

You can certainly layer 2 or 16 sounds in a SS for your own "sound", but that's made up of individual patches the SS is calling to.

There are 512 User Studio Sets. But you can't "store tones" or "add tones" into these - all you can do is save a group of 16 sounds already stored in the keyboard in 512 different configurations.

Steve
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lalaland
Posts: 12
Joined: 17:20, 3 December 2017

Re: Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by lalaland »

Wow Steve, that was super helpful! While previewing newly installed Integra synth patches, I was pulling my hair thinking that I might have heard that sound a minute ago, have I mistakenly selected it again? Now I know that they must be duplicates! I managed to install almost 12 out of 17 zip files I have downloaded before I ran out of user space. Had I read the description of each package, life would be much simpler. Now it seems I have to go through a factory reset like you did. Thanks a lot for the tips!
Paul99
Posts: 117
Joined: 18:05, 23 June 2017

Re: Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by Paul99 »

Yes, I also noticed a lot of duplicates. So I did this: I downloaded all the Integra pacthes I thought I would like. Then I loaded the first Integra7 patch into memory and wrote the names down I thought would be interesting for me. Then I cleared the memory. I then loaded the second one and so one. So now I have a small set of tones which might be useful for me and I stil have memory left.
Of course the way Roland stores tones and SS in specific reserved locations is a bit odd, but never forget this beast already has 2000 sounds on board already.....!
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brakjoller
Posts: 56
Joined: 11:33, 16 January 2016
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Re: Basic synth structure of FA-08?

Post by brakjoller »

Awesome thread, especially the replies from Steve :) I just want to add that, if you have little room for Integra patches in user memory, you can always keep the "source" patches (the files you download from Roland) on your SD card, ready to import when you need them, and overwriting patches you are not currently using. I bought a bigger SD card for this and so that I can also export a lot of WAVs.
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