MX-1 Realizations

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Onslo Jones
Posts: 6
Joined: 14:03, 18 April 2015

MX-1 Realizations

Post by Onslo Jones »

First off, I can see the value of this gear as a live performance tool. It is nice to have my other aira gear linked to this "hub" and makes it easy to hook up all my hardware. I think i have figured out most of the features so that while playing things back live, all the sound i hear in the room is exciting and working as expected.

However, i am not so much of a live performance guy i am a recording musician. I love the sound of the aira gear and record sound from then to use in ableton with further processing and software. The Mx-1 seemed like it would be great for this purpose as well. I have not wanted to use the aira gear via USB due to the amount of cable swapping and general madness that ensues from selecting the tr-8 as my audio interface. Does roland not know i have an audio interface? I have my monitors hooked up to my main audio interface.

So I figured that the MX-1, which i knew would act as an audio interface, would allow me to have my tr-8 hooked up via USB in the same way as it would be if hooked to my PC by itself. Namely that through the mx-1 i could select the individual outs from the USB stream of the TR-8. Only would make sense since the MX-1 is the hub for the aira gear. Alas, not individual outputs from the TR-8, just a stereo stream from the master output of the TR-8. I have been running the stereo and the A and B analog outputs on the TR-8 so i could later mix the kick and snare independent from the rest of the sounds, so this is an immediate downgrade in the face of what i assumed would be a major upgrade for me.

I decided this was, while frustrating, not a deal breaker (just something that will slow my workflow) as the rest of the MX-1s features seemed so cool. So i finally got everything hooked up, got my midi assigned to the various instruments for my full rig, and started playing. Once I had a few sequences, i decided to open up some audio tracks and send the various outputs of the MX-1 into ableton.

First off, i realized how quiet those outputs are. If i adjust the input gain of the instruments on the MX-1, the levels into ableton get hotter and start to reach acceptable levels on the meters. However at this point the MX-1 is distorting. Turning down the fader brought some of this down, but then i came to realize the fader has no effect on the audio being streamed. Allow me to explain. When the USB output of the MX-1 corresponding to the TR-8 is being recorded into ableton, The MX-1's faders, mutes and from what i can tell master effects have no impact on the audio going into ableton. So while i can jam out, play with levels and sweet effects here in the room, i cant record all that via the MX-1's usb outputs. And the performance is also being effected by needing to raise the input gain. If i have the gain loud enough to record a hot level into ableton, the faders have little range without distortion.

I anticipated this to be a great addition and solution for my growing hardware rig. The thing is, it seems to have caused me more problems, and many of the features of the MX-1 dont seem to be recordable via the USB outputs. perhaps i have missed something, but i have been looking at the manual as well as some other roland documentation and have been unable to figure out exactly how i should use this thing with my rig. It is becoming considerably less attractive and could be a candidate for return.

So the major flaws i see so far are (in short):
1. No access to the TR-8s individual instrument outputs via the usb.
2. Many of MX-1s features (Level, Mute, Master FX) are not recordable via usb outputs.
3. USB outputs from MX-1 are very quiet and when input gain is used to help those levels, the MX-1 distorts.
4. The lights are so obnoxious.

Any chance an update will change any of this? I only have so long to return it.
regalpierot
Posts: 13
Joined: 03:20, 7 April 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by regalpierot »

I'm somewhat having the opposite experience with the MX-1, I was very frustrated with the thing in the first week or so but bit by bit am really beginning to love it.

Just to your point of not being able to record the changes you make to an input channel (mute, effects etc), I assume you are working in External mode. I'm not sure there's an update that could get around recording the delta you do on the mixer on a track by track basis by virtue of the fact that the inputs are technically decoupled from the outputs (so in essence in live you can naturally take Track 1 in Live and set the IO so that it's receiving a signal from Input 1 and outputting to output 2. Now your fader, mute, effects etc will all be happening on the second channel strip after the raw feed that is coming into Live, so naturally all live will record is whatever is streaming from your instrument.

One thing though you can do is add a dedicated track in live and set it to input from MX-1s master, it will now record as audio every change, effect, fader movement you do in a performance. Here, this explains it far better than the miserable job I am doing articulating it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gi6xHCRDgY

Hope that helps.
J@M
Posts: 6
Joined: 14:02, 10 November 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by J@M »

I created an account just to reply to this

I'm with the OP on this - I thought the MX-1 would aid my workflow - so far it has been a constant headache

I updated the unit to firmware 1.04 and installed the driver for OSX 10.X

Things I've had issues with in first 24 hours:

I've created the MIDI chain as per the driver documentation and made my speaker config 17 and 18 - however, Ableton Live keeps losing the MX-1 as an audio device, and it also drops out of MIDI devices (becomes greyed out) MIDI rescan doesn't do anything - I have to restart my Mac

Headphones - you can't use the headphones out without having the master volume up as well? So as a soundcard, its pretty useless if you want to listen late at night?!

1/4 audio outputs to my monitors - are super super noisy, really bad

I opened an existing Live project with MX-1 running in internal mode and Live in external mode - the CPU was off the scale, the project wouldn't play at all - is that maybe that the project was made at 44.1 and the MX-1 is running at 96K? I don't know

I'm thinking this thing is going back - so disappointed

Jason
NEMA515
Posts: 41
Joined: 20:55, 23 May 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by NEMA515 »

J@M wrote:I created an account just to reply to this

I'm with the OP on this - I thought the MX-1 would aid my workflow - so far it has been a constant headache

I updated the unit to firmware 1.04 and installed the driver for OSX 10.X

Things I've had issues with in first 24 hours:

I've created the MIDI chain as per the driver documentation and made my speaker config 17 and 18 - however, Ableton Live keeps losing the MX-1 as an audio device, and it also drops out of MIDI devices (becomes greyed out) MIDI rescan doesn't do anything - I have to restart my Mac

Headphones - you can't use the headphones out without having the master volume up as well? So as a soundcard, its pretty useless if you want to listen late at night?!

1/4 audio outputs to my monitors - are super super noisy, really bad

I opened an existing Live project with MX-1 running in internal mode and Live in external mode - the CPU was off the scale, the project wouldn't play at all - is that maybe that the project was made at 44.1 and the MX-1 is running at 96K? I don't know

I'm thinking this thing is going back - so disappointed

Jason
Not sure why you're experiencing so many problems. I have yet to really have any audio/ midi problems or drop outs with mine. Perhaps you have a faulty MX-1 or something is wrong with your ableton install? I've never ever ever had problems with ableton CPU skyrocketing because of the MX-1.

Some things to keep in mind:
-If you run your MX-1 in 96k mode and are using it as your audio device in Ableton, Ableton has to be set to 96K as well.

-Audio can be heard through your headphones only by either unplugging your master outs, or keeping your monitors powered off. Pretty simple fix there...
NEMA515
Posts: 41
Joined: 20:55, 23 May 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by NEMA515 »

Onslo Jones wrote:First off, I can see the value of this gear as a live performance tool. It is nice to have my other aira gear linked to this "hub" and makes it easy to hook up all my hardware. I think i have figured out most of the features so that while playing things back live, all the sound i hear in the room is exciting and working as expected.

However, i am not so much of a live performance guy i am a recording musician. I love the sound of the aira gear and record sound from then to use in ableton with further processing and software. The Mx-1 seemed like it would be great for this purpose as well. I have not wanted to use the aira gear via USB due to the amount of cable swapping and general madness that ensues from selecting the tr-8 as my audio interface. Does roland not know i have an audio interface? I have my monitors hooked up to my main audio interface.

So I figured that the MX-1, which i knew would act as an audio interface, would allow me to have my tr-8 hooked up via USB in the same way as it would be if hooked to my PC by itself. Namely that through the mx-1 i could select the individual outs from the USB stream of the TR-8. Only would make sense since the MX-1 is the hub for the aira gear. Alas, not individual outputs from the TR-8, just a stereo stream from the master output of the TR-8. I have been running the stereo and the A and B analog outputs on the TR-8 so i could later mix the kick and snare independent from the rest of the sounds, so this is an immediate downgrade in the face of what i assumed would be a major upgrade for me.

I decided this was, while frustrating, not a deal breaker (just something that will slow my workflow) as the rest of the MX-1s features seemed so cool. So i finally got everything hooked up, got my midi assigned to the various instruments for my full rig, and started playing. Once I had a few sequences, i decided to open up some audio tracks and send the various outputs of the MX-1 into ableton.

First off, i realized how quiet those outputs are. If i adjust the input gain of the instruments on the MX-1, the levels into ableton get hotter and start to reach acceptable levels on the meters. However at this point the MX-1 is distorting. Turning down the fader brought some of this down, but then i came to realize the fader has no effect on the audio being streamed. Allow me to explain. When the USB output of the MX-1 corresponding to the TR-8 is being recorded into ableton, The MX-1's faders, mutes and from what i can tell master effects have no impact on the audio going into ableton. So while i can jam out, play with levels and sweet effects here in the room, i cant record all that via the MX-1's usb outputs. And the performance is also being effected by needing to raise the input gain. If i have the gain loud enough to record a hot level into ableton, the faders have little range without distortion.

I anticipated this to be a great addition and solution for my growing hardware rig. The thing is, it seems to have caused me more problems, and many of the features of the MX-1 dont seem to be recordable via the USB outputs. perhaps i have missed something, but i have been looking at the manual as well as some other roland documentation and have been unable to figure out exactly how i should use this thing with my rig. It is becoming considerably less attractive and could be a candidate for return.

So the major flaws i see so far are (in short):
1. No access to the TR-8s individual instrument outputs via the usb.
2. Many of MX-1s features (Level, Mute, Master FX) are not recordable via usb outputs.
3. USB outputs from MX-1 are very quiet and when input gain is used to help those levels, the MX-1 distorts.
4. The lights are so obnoxious.

Any chance an update will change any of this? I only have so long to return it.
I had a lot of the same disappointments as you at first. I had a weird work around for awhile that I won't go into detail about, but after changing my workflow yet again, I think I have a workable solution. Whether you like it or think it's usable is up to you of course.

1. I have successfully setup an aggregate device of my TR-8 and MX-1. This allows all individual inputs from TR-8. (That being said, I've decided to move away from this for the sake of reliability and ease of use, and there's a neat work around I'll mention later.)
2. All MX-1 features are recordable via midi CC. Minus the MFX knob position and type, which sadly is not.
3. I haven't personally had trouble with my USB input gains being too soft. I have had problems with my Analog inputs being soft though because I run my external synths through a rack mount DI box. (JD6) I then send my synths through pre-amps to get the level back up to where it should be so I don't have to crank the MX-1 gains. But I've never really had problems with the USB gains. What gear do you have plugged into the MX-1 USB's?
4. The lights do kinda suck on all the aira gear at times... haha. Turning off the demo modes help a lot though. And I have heard about putting nail polish or something over the LED's to keep the colors more muted.


So basically my workaround consists of using an MX-1 max for live device in ableton. I record all movements of the MX-1 through that max for live plugin into automation. You can record faders, and mutes/BFX/MFX button states. By doing this, you can essentially get your automation all recorded on a track, and then edit in ableton. Then when you're happy with the result, you solo the track and print to audio!

This is similar to the workaround with the TR-8. There's a TR-8 drum rack on maxforlive.com that allows you to sequence the TR-8 if you like. But MOST IMPORTANTLY, it allows you to record all movements on the TR-8 into automation. This is big, as it allows you to capture movements on the TR-8 without having to commit to audio. You then listen back, and make edits. THEN, when you're happy with the result, print to audio tracks with TR-8 instruments solo'd. Boom. Individual outs.

I've found this workaround method captures all the movements I want, without having to commit to recorded audio, and without as much latency because I'm not recording ALL 16+ tracks of audio in 96K at the same time. Which is a bit much for this audio device I've found.



Anyway, hope these work arounds make sense and help out some people. I've been thinking about possibly making a video showing all of this working together in Ableton, and how it all works together. Maybe I'll take some time and make one in the next few weeks. Sorry if the post was a bit long winded.
J@M
Posts: 6
Joined: 14:02, 10 November 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by J@M »

NEMA515 wrote:
-Audio can be heard through your headphones only by either unplugging your master outs, or keeping your monitors powered off. Pretty simple fix there...
Yeah I get that, but it's not really something I wanna be doing - I'll probably go back to using my Saffire PRO 24 DSP and just have the MX-1 in as an input

:/
NEMA515
Posts: 41
Joined: 20:55, 23 May 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by NEMA515 »

J@M wrote:
NEMA515 wrote:
-Audio can be heard through your headphones only by either unplugging your master outs, or keeping your monitors powered off. Pretty simple fix there...
Yeah I get that, but it's not really something I wanna be doing - I'll probably go back to using my Saffire PRO 24 DSP and just have the MX-1 in as an input

:/
You'd rather not be bothered to leave your monitors powered off even though you're not using them???

Well, to each their own I suppose!
J@M
Posts: 6
Joined: 14:02, 10 November 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by J@M »

my monitors go into power save mode anyway - it's not about power issues, don't conflate what I said, it's about ease of use
Onslo Jones
Posts: 6
Joined: 14:03, 18 April 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by Onslo Jones »

On my MX-1 when i turn down the master volume, it has no bearing on my headphone volume. I can have no output to my mains and use headphones when i need to be quiet. I often record scratch take vocals in my production chair with my headphones on, while my mains are silent. I have my headphones mixing knob turned all the way to master, and i am running the MX-1 in the external mixing mode. I was also running it in mixer mode with the same behavior.

Since my original post, I have learned to use the MX-1 in my set up successfully. The new Ableton Live mode is useful, and while i wish the MFX and AUX sends were being recorded per channel into my DAW, I have learned to accept that limitation. Running it with the other Aira gear is great saving on cabling and making the routing of midi a cinch.

along the way i made this max4live device
http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... ode-remote

I realize now that i probably didn't need the device, but it gives a nice visual representation of the buttons, knobs, and faders. Glad that i didnt return it, and i am still hoping for an update which might allow for the multiple audio streams from the tr-8's USB to be accessed in the DAW through the MX-1. Probably a hardware limitation, but one can hope.
J@M
Posts: 6
Joined: 14:02, 10 November 2015

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by J@M »

I'm actually starting to enjoy it - I still the odd driver issue, and the MX-1 appears greyed out in Mac MIDI devices - restart fixes that - a bit of a pain.

I'm using it in external mode as the clock master, and sending Ableton master channel out on 17/18 - I've figured how to send MIDI data via Push out to my TR-8 and TB-3 and Waldorf Blofeld, plus being able to record the audio back into seperate audio channels to be cut out of that set and pasted into a new Live set to be worked on and processed further is brilliant - there is a real spontaneity to performance where you can use faders on hi hats and bring the snare in and out etc etc that adds life to the track

Next experiment is bringing Animoog on iPad in and also I would like to use the send and return for FX - plan to run some channels through my Eventide Space

Cheers all
MulaboXL
Posts: 6
Joined: 04:42, 7 March 2016

Re: MX-1 Realizations

Post by MulaboXL »

Hello.

This is my first post here as I'm thinking of dropping some cash and getting the MX1 and have a few questions I hope owners can help answer.

I would like to run 8 audio tracks from ableton live to the MX1. a TR8 and synth eg Korg minilogue. Is there enough channels to do this? I hope I can have a total of 10 fader channels for this purpose.

Just wondering if the 3USBs that I'm not using can be used for other purposes. Like using them as ableton channels.

And record all that back into ableton. Possible?

Thanks for you help in advance.
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