TR-8 kit saving?

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pshz11
Posts: 3
Joined: 10:48, 24 March 2016

TR-8 kit saving?

Post by pshz11 »

Hi there!

Probably it's silly and already discussed question, but I'll ask.

Is it possible to save kit, including knob settings? (like saving preset on any conventional synth)

In manual there's nothing about it, but as fas as I know, there are lots of hidden features...

Thank you!
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Myrk-
Posts: 329
Joined: 19:45, 27 August 2016
Location: Bristol, UK

Re: TR-8 kit saving?

Post by Myrk- »

The TR-8 is a live instrument - whatever it is flashing or the knob is pointed at is what it is doing. There is no saving of knob or slider state. To save a kit just select the kit and change some instruments - there is no save button because everything is always saved! It has some pros and cons being this way... I've found that a lot of the Aira gear lacks the automation to be able to effectively control all of it at the same time, unless you have some seriously fast hands and know EXACTLY what you want to do in your performance down to the second. 4 pieces of Aira gear (eg MX1, TR-8, and 2 boutiques) is best controlled by 2 people to get a really good variance in the playing otherwise you'll spit out the same repetitive grooving that most DJs do.
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Tothead
Posts: 30
Joined: 12:28, 29 May 2016

Re: TR-8 kit saving?

Post by Tothead »

Myrk- wrote:I've found that a lot of the Aira gear lacks the automation to be able to effectively control all of it at the same time, unless you have some seriously fast hands and know EXACTLY what you want to do in your performance down to the second.
This is a great thing about TR-8, exactly as you, Myrk, mentioned, it is an instrument, a synthesizer with many more sounds than average drum machine. Just like with many other instrumets, the lack of automatisation forces you to practice and get skills to know it well enough, to operate it almost without looking at it. As a live performer I love it due to this fact, as I do not like the shorcuts.

I think that Tanzbar is something you might want to check too. Easy to use, limited sounds, analog source, electronic controls so you can memorize knob settings. However the TR-8 due to quality of sounds and number of variations, built in effects, sidechain and mixer/compressor capabilities is far better choice, but thats my opinion ;)
dcullina
Posts: 12
Joined: 17:58, 21 December 2016

Re: TR-8 kit saving?

Post by dcullina »

If you have an MPC you can come pretty close to total recall by going into step edit mode, hitting overdub, and wiggling each of the knobs until they rest back where you had them. Then when you play that MPC sequence, your knob positions will be recalled no matter where you moved them. Yes, it's a slight pain, but not too bad if you really love your kit with certain knob positions. Then you can use program change messages to make sure the right knob position goes with the right kit when you do this.

I wish Roland would at least implement the ability to take a snapshot of all controllers on the TR-8 as it did with the System-1, where pressing and holding a button executes batch output as Control Change messages of setting information for the volume knob, sliders, and buttons.
Happy
Posts: 175
Joined: 14:55, 7 April 2014

Re: TR-8 kit saving?

Post by Happy »

Even though many use the TR-8 live, some don't or not always. To have save/recall function for knobs, sliders and patterns (for example by SYSEX or a key combination for load/send) would be something Roland very easily could add.hopefully they do before they retire the TR-8
Bodde
Posts: 53
Joined: 20:34, 5 September 2016

Re: TR-8 kit saving?

Post by Bodde »

I kind of like it that the knob settings are not saved. This makes it more creative and instant. What I don't like is that you can only save 16 patterns which is nothing. I always have to clean all my patterns and start all over. Wish Roland would update this. I think it shouldn't be too hard for them and the TR-8 will be more attractive for potential buyers if they implement more pattern storage.

I is really quiet from Roland as far as the TR-8 is concerned. Do you think there will me more updates and expansions coming? or is the 7X7 expansion the only thing they will ever offer and they will retire the TR-8? I was expecting more updates because of the competition like the Arturia Drumbrute. I love my TR-8 but I think it has even more potential and that it would not be too hard for Roland to come with some updates. But I am not sure they will.
2:43AM
Posts: 117
Joined: 18:16, 14 February 2012
Location: Midwest USA

Re: TR-8 kit saving?

Post by 2:43AM »

The more I try to incorporate the TR-8 in a studio environment, the more it fails and becomes a PITA. This is my opinion, of course, but it's very difficult for me to implement it to behave like a normal synth with the ability to save/recall "patches." Knob positions should have been included in the saving of a Kit, but sadly it's not. I mean, really, do I honestly need 16 slots to save different combos of 808/909/606/707/727 sounds? For me, the answer is no! Saving knob CC values (plus any sound combinations) makes complete sense. Furthermore, in regards to using a "Kit Recall" sheet, i.e. paper, the TR-8 has memory so why can't it be used properly??! Rhetorical question.

So in a studio environment, the TR-8 may be set up to the way I want it to sound for a particular song. The hour is late, and I close down my session. I feel like working on another song the next morning. The new session contains the TR-8 again, but damn...I just messed with the knobs! All my careful tweaks the night before are lost! This is the frustration, and it is real.

I am an Ableton Live user, so here is my round-about means of "patch recall" for the TR-8. It is by no means simple to implement, but it is effective. The method expands on what dcullina mentioned by twiddling knobs to set/reset the CC's for each parameter. I do this all via Live's automation envelopes in a new MIDI Clip. That's the end product. Getting there is still a PITA, but it works.

Requires a free M4L device: Tr-8 Controller 1.3. (Link at end).

The chain looks like this: MIDI In ---> [Tr-8 Controller 1.3] ---> MIDI Output to TR-8

I choose to use a Max for Live device for the TR-8 instead of recording the physical, knob-movement CC's from the Tr-8 into Live via MIDI. Why? Well, with the M4L device, all parameters are already named for convenience.

With the knobs set to where I like them on the TR-8 face, I mimic their positions in the M4L device Tr-8 Controller 1.3. I record this movement in a new clip. After I'm done twiddling the software knobs, I open up the clip and edit the automation. I don't need any of the curves and movements; all I need is the end result, or my set-point value rather. So note said value and delete the envelope. I add a new node/value to what I want it to be, e.g. 105 for BD Tune. I repeat this for all desired values in my "Patch." The good thing is that not all sounds are used so I don't need to create an envelope for all sounds. The end result is a clip full of straight-line automations. Next, I shorten the clip to start/stop after 1 or 2 bars (more than enough time). Finally, turn off Looping.

If I'm using the TR-8 as a sound source, i.e. played via outputted MIDI from Live, then I must add one more step to my method. I'll explain shortly. However, if running the TR-8's own sequencer, then this step can be skipped. But if sending MIDI notes to the TR-8 is your style, then here's why the extra step is needed:

Ableton Live does something funny and AFAIK it's unavoidable: Though I created and played my "Patch Recall" clip, thereby setting all knobs to wear I need them to be, if I play any other MIDI sequence clip of notes going into the TR-8, then that clip resends the last-used positions of the M4L device Tr-8 Controller. These may be where I last fiddled with them or they could be initial values setup in the M4L device. If I have several MIDI clips, then each one could give me unexpected results. That, of course, is not desired...so all that needs to be done is turn OFF the Tr-8 Controller M4L device after the patch recall clip has been played.

Bingo bango! The method is definitely a workaround to the shortcoming of the TR-8. Hope it can help others out there.

http://maxforlive.com/library/device/34 ... controller
2:43AM
Posts: 117
Joined: 18:16, 14 February 2012
Location: Midwest USA

Re: TR-8 kit saving?

Post by 2:43AM »

ADDITIONAL INFO:

A bi-directional M4L device exists (http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... irectional) where it will receive and set all soft-knobs to the position to which the hardware knobs are moved. Keep in mind that the hardware knobs must still be "twiddled." A snapshot of the "patch" can be saved via the bi-directional device, and yes, the automatic movement of the soft-knobs via the movement of the hardware knobs is indeed convenient.

However, there are two drawbacks to this method, as I see it anyway...

1. This device does not let MIDI to pass through it, so it must be turned off before playing MIDI from Live to the TR-8.
2. The saved-state on the soft-knobs is not re-transmitted unless the soft-knobs are twiddled.

So the end requirement is the same. Automation is still required to send the CC data out to the TR-8, as previously outlined in the post above.
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