Help an idiot. PLEASE.

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CK Dexter Haven
Posts: 3
Joined: 20:58, 8 January 2016

Help an idiot. PLEASE.

Post by CK Dexter Haven »

Hi, all.
I"m new to this instrument, and feel like an utter moron.

I expected to be able to choose a Sound/Tone for each of the four parts (digi 1, digi 2, drums, analog), then save those 4 sounds as a "preset"/Program. Then, click Record, and layer parts on top of each other.

But, i don't know what i'm doing wrong. Even if i start from a User Bank, with nothing stored (Bank E, 01), if i choose one of the sounds i put into my Favorites, i'm now OUT of the User Bank, and in one of the preset (A-D) banks, which already has sequencing patterns recorded. Any time i select a new sound for one of the parts, i lose what i've already established. I CAN choose an empty bank, hit Record, and record a raw waveform sound. That's it.

A Moron's Guide/Simple step by step instruction would be very much appreciated.

Thanks, in advance, for your consideration and restraint in not skewering me too badly.
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rsaintjohn
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Location: Cleveland, OH USA

Re: Help an idiot. PLEASE.

Post by rsaintjohn »

Save, save, save. If I'm understanding what you're running into, the solution is to save the program you're in anytime you modify anything, before going somewhere else. [Shift] + [Menu] to get to the Write menu.

So if you start on a blank E01, and assign a tone to D1, do that and save. Go to another program to copy one of its tones or pattern to E01 D2? Do that, then save. Before you ever leave E01 to browse anything else, save.

Regarding the relationship between Programs and Favorites, straight from the Manual:
-------------------------
Registering a Favorite

Select a program that you want to register as a favorite.

Hold down the [Favorite] button and press the [01]–[16] button to which you want to register the selected program.

The currently selected program is registered to that button.

NOTE
If you’ve edited a program, save that program first before registering it as a favorite (p. 9).
-------------------------

It sounds to me like you're missing that very last note.

Did you go to the Roland site and grab the JD-Xi Parameter Guide PDF? If not, do so. It's the rest of the manual not included with the manual. You'll want the shortcut page handy. Most of those shortcuts will become second nature in a short while, and will save you a lot of time and frustration.

Also, understand that assigning a Program into a Favorite is not saving the Program or the data associated with it to that button. Think of a Favorite button as nothing more than a shortcut to the entire Program and its Pattern assigned to it. So if you create your own custom E01, and assign it to Favorite 1, all that does is save you the trouble later of going through the steps of navigating to E01. Press Favorite 1, and it loads E01. Therefore, if you later change E01 (and save those changes!!!), pressing Favorite 1 is going to just take you to the "new" E01.

One advantage of this is that it lets you build a set of similar Programs and assign them as you want to Favorite buttons so that you can manually play a song. So say you have a Program on E01, but you want a version of it as the opening of the song, but without the drum having kicked in. Save it as a copy to E02. Then go back to E01, and mute the drum. Save it. Now assign E01 to Fav 1, and E02 to Fav 2. Go to Fav 1, hit Play, and there's your intro. Hit Fav 2 when you want the drum to seamlessly kick in. And so on. Bad example and there are better ways to do that, but its just a quick illustration.

Best advice I can give is to spend a couple sessions just starting simple. Don't get vested in anything your doing sound or song wise, just go through the steps of assigning tones, saving/naming, copying parts from one program to another, extending the length of the pattern, knowing the common shortcuts. Then move on to Favorites and the Sequencer and the different ways to record. Then move on to changing Tones, first using the controls on the board, then through some menu diving.

I think the biggest challenge for me was just understanding the structure of a Program and the way that the Xi organizes its library. I had preconceived notions based on other synths and their files and banks, and the Xi system of Banks, Programs, Parts and Patterns is different. But once you get familiar with each aspect of it, it gets immediately easier. I pretty much composed, played and recorded my first song on the third night.
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rsaintjohn
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Re: Help an idiot. PLEASE.

Post by rsaintjohn »

CK Dexter Haven
Posts: 3
Joined: 20:58, 8 January 2016

Re: Help an idiot. PLEASE.

Post by CK Dexter Haven »

rsaintjohn —

Thank you, ever so much, for taking the time.

I'll try your suggestions, but i'm not sure they cure my primary issue. A Roland rep referred me to a video, which may help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FebOT0cjQHE

But, in this video, he begins by making changes/sound selections only after he has initiated Recording. Except, later in his pattern, he changes the recording mode and does it with the sequencer Off.

Thank you for the info about how Favorites can work. I did not realize a Favorite could include all Four Parts.... i thought it was just an individual sound. I see how that can work for putting patterns together. I think....

But, back to Saving.... I get your suggestion that i need to Save after each step. But, i'm missing something even before that. I think.

Let's say this is how i thought i could work. Please tell me where i'm going wrong:

• i have no clue what i want to do. Start with a bass line, lead line, melody, or percussion riff — i dunno yet. I'm just browsing sounds. I find an analog bass that i want to use to start with.

• Ummm. Now, i guess i'm stuck.... I'm on a sound, and don't know what to do next. If i try to record it right there, i'm going to have pre-recorded sequence data there. So, i could delete all that. So, let's say i do that, then record a bass line. Then, i guess you're suggesting i SAVE that. Which means i need to save into an empty slot. Let's say i save to H01. Then, i want to add a melody line with an organ sound. If i then go to look for an organ sound, i'm not in H01 anymore. Right? Or, is that what i'm doing wrong? Is there a way to keep H01 at the top of the screen, while browsing for a different sound? If i go to my Organ sound, i will have a different pre-recorded sequence, and my bass line is gone. Right?

I'm sure there's a very simple thing i'm missing, but maybe i'm too old for new (non-Apple) tech these days.... I used to be pretty tech-savvy in all other respects. But, i always had problems with synthesizer manuals..... Maybe it was just Roland. I had a Kurzweil K2500 for a while. Supposedly very complex, but i could navigate it.....

Thanks for the Cheatsheet, as well!
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rsaintjohn
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Re: Help an idiot. PLEASE.

Post by rsaintjohn »

CK Dexter Haven wrote:Thank you, ever so much, for taking the time.
No problem! Really, a big part of the problem is the lousy documentation.
I'll try your suggestions, but i'm not sure they cure my primary issue. A Roland rep referred me to a video, which may help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FebOT0cjQHE

But, in this video, he begins by making changes/sound selections only after he has initiated Recording. Except, later in his pattern, he changes the recording mode and does it with the sequencer Off.
So the first thing I'll point out in this video is this: note, he never left Program A01. And that's one of the system presets. If you modify it, you have to resave the Program to a User Bank, like E01. As far as I could see glancing through Ed's video, he erased all the Patterns (each Part has a Pattern), made a bunch of tones changes (using the wheel) to the individual Parts that make up the Program, but he never saved it. In other words, as soon as he would have gone to another Program (like A02, or E01), he would have lost all of that work. If this had been a good tutorial video, he would have said, "Hey kid, we don't want to lose this. So let's copy A01 to E01, then make all these changes so we don't lose this as soon as we go to another Program, or turn the Xi off!"

And both he and the manual should have explicitly stated: you cannot overwrite a Preset Program (A-D). You can make changes, but you have to save them to a User Program (E-H). See this Roland support note.

Pretty important, eh?
Thank you for the info about how Favorites can work. I did not realize a Favorite could include all Four Parts.... i thought it was just an individual sound. I see how that can work for putting patterns together. I think....
That's a failing in the manual, not you. The manual section is called "Using Favorite Sounds (Programs) (Favorite)". Sheesh. Then it says: "Use these button to register and recall your favorite sounds (programs)" and "Press one of the [01]–[16] buttons to select a favorite sound." If ever there was a time not to use the words "Program" and "Sound" interchangeably, that would have been it.

Because it's really important to note that the entire library system is based on saving, writing and modifying a Program. And a Program is made up of the "tone" Parts (Digital 1, Digital 2, Drums, Analog), an Arpeggio (that may be on or off), the Patterns, and the Effects. Now you can have a Program that is really nothing but one tone, say "Piano" on D1, and nothing on D2, Drum, AN, no pattern, no effects. But this is sort of a "groovebox" synth, so they've structured the whole thing on the basis of each Program containing all of these things. But, just FYI, I do create some one-off Programs myself (all grouped in H) that are usually nothing but a single tone or drum beat. That was I can easily find it and copy that Part into a broader Program later. Why? Because we can't add our own tones or rhythms to the library. I can't create a killer Bass (for instance) and add just that tone/patch to the Wheel, or browse to it through Tone -/+. Grrrrrr. So if I really like it, and don't want to keep a notebook (I do anyway, haha), I waste a whole Program slot on it.

I'm tempted to stop here, because getting this is probably all you need to know in order to move forward. Let me know if this makes sense now or not.
But, back to Saving.... I get your suggestion that i need to Save after each step. But, i'm missing something even before that. I think.
You were right. This may all come down to the Preset and User Banks. But I'll keep going because of what you've outlined below, and because there's a difference between what Ed showed in the video (starting with and modifying a Preset) and starting from scratch (in an empty User Bank).
Let's say this is how i thought i could work. Please tell me where i'm going wrong:

• i have no clue what i want to do. Start with a bass line, lead line, melody, or percussion riff — i dunno yet. I'm just browsing sounds. I find an analog bass that i want to use to start with.
Not sure how you're browsing. And when you say "sounds", do you mean tones (you're using the big Digital Synth dial and Tone buttons, tapping on the keyboard)? Or do you mean Program Parts (you've hit Play, and you're browsing through with the Program (Pattern) buttons, turning different Parts on and off with Part Select)?

You can do it both ways, but it will probably take you in different directions. If I have a totally original song going on in my head, I'm going to do this: I go to a blank User slot (say E10). I choose a part to start with, like the bassline. So maybe I'll start with the Analog part. I select Analog, then browse through with the Tone -/+ buttons (or create my own with the OSC). Once I find the right tone, it's there as the Analog Part in E10. I can go ahead and lay down the Pattern using the Sequencer. Usually I save the Program first, then move to the next step. The important thing is that I do not leave E10 without saving what I've done.

From there, I can repeat this with the Digital Parts (say a lead and a chord sequence). Or do the drums. Maybe I heard a great drum and drum pattern on C08 earlier in the day. No need to try to replicate it, I can copy just the Drum from C08. I just need to make sure that I save what I've done in E10 before I go to C08 to listen to and copy that drum.

Hopefully this is still making sense. Back to your scenario..
• Ummm. Now, i guess i'm stuck.... I'm on a sound, and don't know what to do next. If i try to record it right there, i'm going to have pre-recorded sequence data there. So, i could delete all that. So, let's say i do that, then record a bass line. Then, i guess you're suggesting i SAVE that. Which means i need to save into an empty slot. Let's say i save to H01...
Yes, exactly. If you were on A01 (like the video) and you made your own custom bassline (tone and pattern), then this is about the time you should go ahead and save to H01 so that you continue your work without fear of losing it. Note: if you start on A01 and you're not planning on using its Patterns, you might want to erase them (but don't erase your bassline).
Then, i want to add a melody line with an organ sound. If i then go to look for an organ sound, i'm not in H01 anymore. Right? Or, is that what i'm doing wrong? Is there a way to keep H01 at the top of the screen, while browsing for a different sound? If i go to my Organ sound, i will have a different pre-recorded sequence, and my bass line is gone. Right?
You're fine here. Once you saved to H01, you should be in H01. Your bass and its pattern is still there. So are all the other things that were in A01 on D1, D2, etc. So then you can press Digital Synth 1, turn the dial to Keyboard, use Tone + / - to find that organ sound.

Again, my M.O. is to just periodically save the Program as I go along. So when I choose a new tone, I save the Program again. When I finish the sequence for a Part, I save again.
I'm sure there's a very simple thing i'm missing, but maybe i'm too old for new (non-Apple) tech these days.... I used to be pretty tech-savvy in all other respects.
Nah, I just turned 50 and I do all my music work on a Mac Book Air. For me, it was simply getting over a mindset of Patches, Programs, Patterns and sequencing that I was using on synths back in the 80s. The Roland approach for the JD-Xi (and a lot of other synths and manufacturers) is different these days. They use the same words for different things, and have their own ways of organizing them. I don't mind the Roland concept of Program, but I still wish I could create a Tone, save it, and access it from the dial or Tone buttons, independent of Programs.

Again, it's this "groovebox" concept. Once you get it, though, the whole Pattern-based method of building and playing back a song is pretty powerful.
CK Dexter Haven
Posts: 3
Joined: 20:58, 8 January 2016

Re: Help an idiot. PLEASE.

Post by CK Dexter Haven »

Dude.

You are indeed worthy of "dude" status. Thank you, ever so much. This is above and beyond.

I haven't touched the -xi for a while, so i haven't tested anything, but you really seem to have addressed everything i need to know, and all my misconceptions. Thanks, as well, for illustrating that i'm not as stupid as i had been thinking....

I'll come back when i have some progress to report.

You rock.
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