Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Forum for boutique synths
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cloudburst
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Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by cloudburst »

Hi folks,

Just wondering a) If anyone has created any chiptune (8-bit game sounds) patches with either of the 3 boutiques or b) could point me at the best boutique model for the job and the best base set of params. The sort of sounds I'm after, you'll find in this great little track:

https://soundcloud.com/vulcanor/robot-kid-2000

CB
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kimsnarf
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by kimsnarf »

I'm concentrating my chiptune efforts on the Sub 37. But I would think the JP-08 is best suited for the job, since it has the most parameters. The JX-03 and the JU-06 chorus isn't really helpful here, since it fattens up the sound and you want the opposite: simple, cutting, bleeping, buzzing sounds. The early JP-08 demos were full of them (although not 8-bitty). The low polyphony of these devices also make them suited for fast arpeggios to emulate the broken chords of yore.
horacewimp
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by horacewimp »

there is a dedicated 8bit chiptune-boutique-synth - the A01 ;-)
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cloudburst
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by cloudburst »

I understand what you're saying about the Jupiter and there is logic in what you say - however, in practice what I'm actually finding is that the Juno and JX doing the job better at the moment...

CB
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cloudburst
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by cloudburst »

Just by way of an update - I've actually been finding it easiest to create the patches I need using my Teenage Engineering OP-1.

CB
IraVirus
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by IraVirus »

First off, you cannot create chiptunes with a non-chip based synth. The chiptunes community is very strict as to what does or does not constitute a chiptune. If you want to create actual chiptunes invest in lsdj or Nanoloop or a MidiNES. You will end up spending a lot less.

But if you're dead set on imitating the sound of chiptunes, any synth will do. Even the simplest synthesizer will actually be overkill for achieving the classic chiptunes sound.

Your average chip synth does not have a filter, so open up your filter all the way, resonance at zero. You'll want just one oscillator per voice. As for waveforms, choose a pulse or triangle wave -- the average chip synth didn't have a sawtooth. (For drums, use a noise wave) for your pulse waves, no pwm and the width should be 12%, 25% or 50%. As for your envelope, you'll want you attack, decay and release at zero with your sustain at full. Modulation should be used sparingly and only on the pitch of the oscillator. Chip synths have very limited polyphony, for instance the NES had two pulse channels, a triangle and a noise channel -- so keep the amount of sounds happening at the same time to three or four.

As I said, the boutiques would be overkill for this. For instance, you don't want polyphony because there would be no variation between voices if you recorded them all at the same time using just one patch. A cheap mono synth would be a better choice, coupled with multitracking to complete your song.
IraVirus
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by IraVirus »

Clicking to your link, I see that the music you were referencing came from a Teenage Engineering Pocket Operator -- these synths run about $50 a piece. You could buy all six of the pocket operators for the price of the Ju-06.
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cloudburst
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by cloudburst »

Many thanks IraVirus. I was only really asking about the Boutiques as I have them all and felt that creating a chiptune patch on them would visually show me, very clearly laid out in front of me, exactly what was going on in a chiptune sound.

I do actually have the PO-12 as well as my OP-1 and am an active member in the Teenage Engineering forum (much more than I am here). I just wanted to know how to make the sounds rather than just play them.

In terms of a device to easily reproduce these sounds (apart from the PO-20 Arcade and PO-28 Robot), I'm thinking of investing in a Soulsby Atmegatron. Wonder if you have an opinion on it?

Thanks again.

CB
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kimsnarf
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by kimsnarf »

For chiptunes I use a MSSIAH cartridge (50 EUR) with a Commodore 64. I prefer the authentic and dirty 80s SID sound to the cleaner NES/GameBoy sound and modern emulations. The SID gives you a 3-part multitimbral, 3 voice, 3 oscillator synth which includes sawtooth, filter, resonance and PWM. And lovely, raw distortions once you start mixing oscillators/polyphony.

The SID filter is very crude, so I prefer sending the audio through my Sub 37 for a smoother sound. This setup basically upgrades the Sub 37 with a SID foundation for a great mix of old and modern. It can add a lot of punch to the cleaner Sub 37 sound. I also find the duophonic mode of the Sub 37 a perfect match for the 3-voice limit of the SID. Or I can MIDI them separately for a 4/5-voice chiptune with a modern twist. A great setup!
IraVirus
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by IraVirus »

cloudburst wrote:Many thanks IraVirus. I was only really asking about the Boutiques as I have them all and felt that creating a chiptune patch on them would visually show me, very clearly laid out in front of me, exactly what was going on in a chiptune sound.

I do actually have the PO-12 as well as my OP-1 and am an active member in the Teenage Engineering forum (much more than I am here). I just wanted to know how to make the sounds rather than just play them.

In terms of a device to easily reproduce these sounds (apart from the PO-20 Arcade and PO-28 Robot), I'm thinking of investing in a Soulsby Atmegatron. Wonder if you have an opinion on it?

Thanks again.

CB
Sorry about the late response. If you have all the boutiques, the Juno would be your best bet for faking a chiptune sound. Since it's based on DCOs instead of VCOs, it has super strict tuning which is what you would get in a chip synth. So follow my earlier example on how to set up the patch and use the Juno and you'll get the sound you're looking for.

I've never played with an Atmegatron, but it sure looks nice. It, also, isn't a chip synth. (there's a difference between 8bit and chip synths, chip synths were specific chips that were specifically made for music, an 8bit synth is an arm processor being used to create music) The only true drawback I see about it is that it is a menu-diver -- I personally have no problems with menu diving, but still prefe knob-per-function.

If you want a true chip synth, see if you can find a MidiNES or a ChipMaestro and an old Nintendo, or get Nanoloop or lsdj and an old Game Boy. There is also a company called Ninstrument that makes midified game boys, if you'd prefer to control things via midi instead of an internal sequencer.
IraVirus
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by IraVirus »

kimsnarf wrote:For chiptunes I use a MSSIAH cartridge (50 EUR) with a Commodore 64. I prefer the authentic and dirty 80s SID sound to the cleaner NES/GameBoy sound and modern emulations. The SID gives you a 3-part multitimbral, 3 voice, 3 oscillator synth which includes sawtooth, filter, resonance and PWM. And lovely, raw distortions once you start mixing oscillators/polyphony.

The SID filter is very crude, so I prefer sending the audio through my Sub 37 for a smoother sound. This setup basically upgrades the Sub 37 with a SID foundation for a great mix of old and modern. It can add a lot of punch to the cleaner Sub 37 sound. I also find the duophonic mode of the Sub 37 a perfect match for the 3-voice limit of the SID. Or I can MIDI them separately for a 4/5-voice chiptune with a modern twist. A great setup!
Sad to hear that you don't like the Sid filter. The grit of its filter is one of its charms in my opinion. You can get some great distortion sounds out of it. I have an Elektron Sidstation and I love that filter so much, I think it's a shame to bypass that bad boy and put it through such a buttery filter as a Moog.
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kimsnarf
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by kimsnarf »

IraVirus wrote: Sad to hear that you don't like the Sid filter. The grit of its filter is one of its charms in my opinion. You can get some great distortion sounds out of it. I have an Elektron Sidstation and I love that filter so much, I think it's a shame to bypass that bad boy and put it through such a buttery filter as a Moog.
Raw SID sounds can get quite tiring on my ears. The Moog filter tames the sound so that it becomes more listenable but still decidedly SID in nature. I have yet to explore the SID in all its glory. It is remarkable how much they managed to cram into that little chip.

I use an early 80s version of the SID which lacks some capabilities of later versions. But it sounds very dirty and more authentic than later revisions and emulations. The SID station is probably more capable.
IraVirus
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by IraVirus »

The Sidstation is also built on the MOS 6581 Sid chip that you are using. The 8580 was the one with the cleaner sound. Otherwise, the chips had the same capabilities. Some people prefer the cleaner sound, but I'm a fan of the grit.

I've never played around with MSSIAH, but if you find it lacking have you tried Paul Slocum's Cynthcart?
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kimsnarf
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by kimsnarf »

The MSSIAH itself is certainly not lacking in features. I have just started to dig into its capabilities. But there are revisions of the MOS 6581 chip, with later revisions fixing bugs and adding stability to the sound. Using all the features of the MSSIAH requires a 6581 rev 4 or 8580. But these chips sound cleaner, sharper. For nostalgia I prefer the dirtier original SID sound.

From the MSSIAH Getting Started guide:
Don’t believe the myth that older C64s sound better than newer ones. Yes, they might sound grittier due to either old SIDs or poor components along the audio chain and yet a good thing when listening to old game music it’s less attractive when using the C64 in your synthesizer setup. MSSIAH musicians are advised to look for late model C64s with 6581 R4 or 8580 R5 chips instead.
The SidStation apparently used different versions of the 6581 chips. Do you know which revision yours contain?

From the wikipedia page on the SidStation:
Most SidStations contain the 6581 R4AR incarnation of the SID chip. This version is considered the best trade-off between sound, stability and conformity (which is a big deal concerning the SID chip, since they tend to sound different from unit to unit).
I wasn't into synths when the SidStation was in production, so I missed the whole thing. Otherwise I would certainly have bought it. But it is also a lot of fun to hook up a C64 directly. I haven't tried any other cartridges, but I am open for exploring more.
IraVirus
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Re: Chiptune patches for Boutiques

Post by IraVirus »

I do not know what revision my SID is, because it would involve opening it to find out. I'm not too comfortable with that.

There are several SID based synths that have come around since the Sidstation that I hear improved on what Elektron was doing. You might look up the Mode Machines Sid Box, SammichSid or the Twisted Electrons TherapSid.
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