JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

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Phantomhall
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Joined: 22:04, 1 February 2017

JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

Post by Phantomhall »

Hello Boutique users,

I recently got a hold of a JU-06. I'm sending midi notes to the JU-06 with ableton but I'm not getting any sound out of the JU-06 this way. My midi signal is going through my midi interface into the midi in of my JU-06 (midi via midicable, not usb). My interface is definitely sending data because I can see it flickering and it works with other synths. I'm not running audio from the JU-06 back into ableton, I'm listering directly from the audio port on the unit. All midi channels are on 1 (on the ju-06 as well).

I'm using a Miditech MIDIface 4x4 interface. Is anyone else using a midi interface to control the modules?

Any solutions? I'm cracking my head on this one...

F.
saco2306@Hotmail.com
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Joined: 09:41, 10 February 2017

Re: JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

Post by saco2306@Hotmail.com »

i cant use my ju-06 with ableton lite too. It would be nice if ableton provided step-by-step guide to use their software.
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TagPass
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Re: JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

Post by TagPass »

Phantomhall wrote:Hello Boutique users,

I recently got a hold of a JU-06. I'm sending midi notes to the JU-06 with ableton but I'm not getting any sound out of the JU-06 this way. My midi signal is going through my midi interface into the midi in of my JU-06 (midi via midicable, not usb). My interface is definitely sending data because I can see it flickering and it works with other synths. I'm not running audio from the JU-06 back into ableton, I'm listering directly from the audio port on the unit. All midi channels are on 1 (on the ju-06 as well).

I'm using a Miditech MIDIface 4x4 interface. Is anyone else using a midi interface to control the modules?

Any solutions? I'm cracking my head on this one...

F.
There is a problem with the Boutiques and their MIDI connection that I have experienced as well. If I use the USB connection to send/receive MIDI, it works fine in Ableton, but I have that infamous USB noise when I try to record audio.

When I use the DIN ports with my MIDI Interface, the USB noise is gone, but I cannot get proper audio to record in Live or Logic. This is because the Boutique modules constantly send a stream of MIDI clock out messages and there is no way to turn this off. If I send MIDI note data to the module, it gets "stuck" in an infinite MIDI loop and produces no sound (or, in the case of Logic, a constant stream of random MIDI note values).

The solution is to either intercept/filter out the MIDI clock data coming out of the Boutique or to use ONLY the IN port on your JU-06. If you have it connected to a K-25m keyboard, this means that you can only control the Boutique module locally... you cannot use the keyboard to input MIDI note data to your DAW. (It also means, unfortunately, that you cannot send CC data to your DAW from the module's controls for parameter automation.)

Some MIDI interfaces may be able to filter MIDI clock data (I know the iConnectivity ones do), but the ones I use (MOTU micro lites) do not, so I cannot test if that is a viable option for leaving both the MIDI IN and OUT cables attached to the Boutique module. Since I use Logic, I can create a "Monitor Device" in the environment which prevents the sequencer from receiving any MIDI OUT from the JU-06. If I use my Boutique modules standalone ("live", without any DAW software open), MIDI DIN works perfectly fine. But you have to suppress the clock out signal in some way before you can use it in a DAW. I am keeping my fingers crossed that a future driver or firmware update will give us the ability to suppress the clock out signal entirely. Right now, it does not matter if you have it set to Internal or Auto on the module, the MIDI behavior when using the DIN ports in conjunction with a DAW is the same. I have gone back and forth with this for several days, and there is no way currently to make it work, unfortunately, other than only using the MIDI in port on the module (or using the USB connection and putting up with the extra noise).
Phantomhall
Posts: 2
Joined: 22:04, 1 February 2017

Re: JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

Post by Phantomhall »

TagPass wrote:
Phantomhall wrote:Hello Boutique users,

I recently got a hold of a JU-06. I'm sending midi notes to the JU-06 with ableton but I'm not getting any sound out of the JU-06 this way. My midi signal is going through my midi interface into the midi in of my JU-06 (midi via midicable, not usb). My interface is definitely sending data because I can see it flickering and it works with other synths. I'm not running audio from the JU-06 back into ableton, I'm listering directly from the audio port on the unit. All midi channels are on 1 (on the ju-06 as well).

I'm using a Miditech MIDIface 4x4 interface. Is anyone else using a midi interface to control the modules?

Any solutions? I'm cracking my head on this one...

F.
There is a problem with the Boutiques and their MIDI connection that I have experienced as well. If I use the USB connection to send/receive MIDI, it works fine in Ableton, but I have that infamous USB noise when I try to record audio.

When I use the DIN ports with my MIDI Interface, the USB noise is gone, but I cannot get proper audio to record in Live or Logic. This is because the Boutique modules constantly send a stream of MIDI clock out messages and there is no way to turn this off. If I send MIDI note data to the module, it gets "stuck" in an infinite MIDI loop and produces no sound (or, in the case of Logic, a constant stream of random MIDI note values).

The solution is to either intercept/filter out the MIDI clock data coming out of the Boutique or to use ONLY the IN port on your JU-06. If you have it connected to a K-25m keyboard, this means that you can only control the Boutique module locally... you cannot use the keyboard to input MIDI note data to your DAW. (It also means, unfortunately, that you cannot send CC data to your DAW from the module's controls for parameter automation.)

Some MIDI interfaces may be able to filter MIDI clock data (I know the iConnectivity ones do), but the ones I use (MOTU micro lites) do not, so I cannot test if that is a viable option for leaving both the MIDI IN and OUT cables attached to the Boutique module. Since I use Logic, I can create a "Monitor Device" in the environment which prevents the sequencer from receiving any MIDI OUT from the JU-06. If I use my Boutique modules standalone ("live", without any DAW software open), MIDI DIN works perfectly fine. But you have to suppress the clock out signal in some way before you can use it in a DAW. I am keeping my fingers crossed that a future driver or firmware update will give us the ability to suppress the clock out signal entirely. Right now, it does not matter if you have it set to Internal or Auto on the module, the MIDI behavior when using the DIN ports in conjunction with a DAW is the same. I have gone back and forth with this for several days, and there is no way currently to make it work, unfortunately, other than only using the MIDI in port on the module (or using the USB connection and putting up with the extra noise).
Hey,

Thanks a lot for your answer. That makes sense. What I find strange is that I can control my ju-06 from ableton via the midi out of my audio interface (motu ultralite mk3). It works perfectly fine.
Since I have 3 boutique synths, I would like to control them all at once using live. This is why I bought the midi interface listed above which I sent back to store yesterday. I am now looking for a midi interface with at least 3 midi outs that does work (just like the midi out of my motu audio interface does). Your motu midi interface isn't doing the job? Weird...

Regards,

F
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cloudburst
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Re: JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

Post by cloudburst »

If you're looking to interface your JU-06 directly to your computer via USB, have you installed the Boutique driver on your computer?

CB
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TagPass
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Re: JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

Post by TagPass »

Phantomhall wrote: Thanks a lot for your answer. That makes sense. What I find strange is that I can control my ju-06 from ableton via the midi out of my audio interface (motu ultralite mk3). It works perfectly fine.
Since I have 3 boutique synths, I would like to control them all at once using live. This is why I bought the midi interface listed above which I sent back to store yesterday. I am now looking for a midi interface with at least 3 midi outs that does work (just like the midi out of my motu audio interface does). Your motu midi interface isn't doing the job? Weird...

Regards,

F
Yes, the MOTU interface works great for sending/receiving MIDI -- it just doesn't have the capability of filtering the MIDI clock messages that create the feedback loop that prevents the Boutiques from working properly if they are connected to both MIDI IN and OUT.

The way I have my Boutiques setup now is working fine, albeit with some limitations:

From one of the 5 MIDI OUT ports on the MOTU micro lite, I have inserted a MIDI solutions Quadra Thru, which splits the single MIDI port into 4 outputs. From the Quadra Thru, I've got the JU-06, VP-03, and TB-03 connected, each set to receive MIDI on channels 1, 2, and 3, respectively. The MIDI OUTs are *not* routed back to the computer, so all three devices are simply being used as sound modules, and not as MIDI controllers. Obviously, the limitation is that I cannot input MIDI notes/CC data to my DAW (via the K-25m connected to the JU-06 or from each models' controls), or sequence anything other than the internal synth engine with the TB-03. If I end up needing to do the latter, I can run a temporary MIDI OUT cable from the TB-03 to an open port on the front of the MOTU interface, but I have to disconnect the MIDI IN cable on the TB-03, as having both IN and OUT connected via MIDI will cause that clock/loop issue that is so problematic.

Thus, the Boutiques should work fine with MIDI, so long as IN and OUT aren't connected simultaneously. What's a shame is that the USB MIDI connection works perfectly on its own, but the units whine and warble with digital noise if the USB is connected to my iMac.

(Footnote: I've got the Boutiques each powered via their own isolated power supply, as I noticed that with a shared power supply, the noise was still there if more than one Boutique was powered on at a time. Roland's USB power implementation seriously sucks. Whatever they are doing with their USB power supplies, they are doing wrong, as the USB noise is an ongoing problem going back to the AIRA line and before that, the GAIA synthesizer. I've been contemplating actually ditching the Boutiques altogether for this very reason.)
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cloudburst
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Re: JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

Post by cloudburst »

TagPass wrote:What's a shame is that the USB MIDI connection works perfectly on its own, but the units whine and warble with digital noise if the USB is connected to my iMac.

(Footnote: I've got the Boutiques each powered via their own isolated power supply, as I noticed that with a shared power supply, the noise was still there if more than one Boutique was powered on at a time. Roland's USB power implementation seriously sucks. Whatever they are doing with their USB power supplies, they are doing wrong, as the USB noise is an ongoing problem going back to the AIRA line and before that, the GAIA synthesizer. I've been contemplating actually ditching the Boutiques altogether for this very reason.)
Could you not use USB for MIDI but not audio and then route the analogue output jack via something like a Behringer HD400 hum destroyer (cost £20).

CB
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TagPass
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Re: JU-06 / Ableton via MIDI interface not working

Post by TagPass »

cloudburst wrote: Could you not use USB for MIDI but not audio and then route the analogue output jack via something like a Behringer HD400 hum destroyer (cost £20).

CB
Not sure. Thought those hum destroyers and the stuff from Ebtech were for ground loop / 60-cycle hum, and that the USB noise is a different beast. For reference, the sound of which I speak is featured in this video: https://youtu.be/BvMKD5I8bBk?t=1m15s
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