Poly chaining

[PauloF]

OK I am getting frustrated with this whole USB power system!!
I have tried everything to get the second JP-08 to power up.

1. I have tried powering both the JP-08's using USB both going into my computer which a fairly new MacBook Pro but I get the strange background LFO noise

2. I went and bought a USB power plug that goes directly into a wall socket 500 mA USB power....it won't power the second synth.

3. The only way to get both working at the sometime with no annoying noise is to use batteries......I have used so many batteries so far that it is getting really expensive.

Why oh Why Roland did you just not give the JP-08 with their own power supply???????????

Is anyone else using 2 JP-08's together poly chaining? and are you having problems?????

Hi Richard,
I believe the noise comes from the fact you have two USB cables connected to the computer and having the audio cables from OUT of the first JP-08 into the IN of the second one, all that creating an audio loop that will create Hum (50 Hz hum).

I would try the following:

JP-08 (2) IN <--- JP-08(1) IN
______________JP-08 (1) USB---Audio/MIDI----> MBP (USB)
JP-08 (2) USB <------power only-------------------------------USB POWER Adapter

Let us know if this solves the hum noise issue
Cheers,
PauloF

Thanks Paulo I appreciate the info.
I did finally get it to work...no irritating noise now.

Great! what did you do then?

[richardbates1]

OK I am getting frustrated with this whole USB power system!!
I have tried everything to get the second JP-08 to power up.

1. I have tried powering both the JP-08's using USB both going into my computer which a fairly new MacBook Pro but I get the strange background LFO noise

2. I went and bought a USB power plug that goes directly into a wall socket 500 mA USB power....it won't power the second synth.

3. The only way to get both working at the sometime with no annoying noise is to use batteries......I have used so many batteries so far that it is getting really expensive.

Why oh Why Roland did you just not give the JP-08 with their own power supply???????????

Is anyone else using 2 JP-08's together poly chaining? and are you having problems?????

Hi Richard,
I believe the noise comes from the fact you have two USB cables connected to the computer and having the audio cables from OUT of the first JP-08 into the IN of the second one, all that creating an audio loop that will create Hum (50 Hz hum).

I would try the following:

JP-08 (2) IN <--- JP-08(1) IN
______________JP-08 (1) USB---Audio/MIDI----> MBP (USB)
JP-08 (2) USB <------power only-------------------------------USB POWER Adapter

Let us know if this solves the hum noise issue
Cheers,
PauloF

Thanks Paulo I appreciate the info.
I did finally get it to work...no irritating noise now.

I finally got the USB wall power supply to work, for some reason it wasn't powering the second JP-08 at first but then with some fiddling and some cleaning the ends and pushing them in harder it got it to power up.

So I set it up as this for now
JP-08 1 USB into computer for power only ... no USB audio at this moment, midi in from jupiter80 as controller, Midi out JP-08 1 into JP-08 2 midi in.
Audio out from JP-08 2 INTO JP-08 1, Audio out from JP-08 into mixer. At least that works for now.
USB wall power unit into JP-08 2 as power supply.

In the future I will try using JP-08 1 with USB/audio into computer/Logic Pro,then computer audio out to mixer, that will be a headache figuring that out as a later project.

[tboneuk]

I also noticed a similar noise from the 2 JP-08 I chained together. Havn't investigated the issue yet but I did use very cheap and thin USB cables so they cannot have very good screening. Also the small cable I connected audio of of the first JP to the second was just one I had lying around and of similar cheap quality. I will post my findings tomorrow when I have replaced the cheap USB cables for the ones I have in the JX and JU as neither of those have any noise issues. I didn't really like the idea of a pass through cable for sound so I will just run two separate outputs for to the mixing desk.

[apauw]

Hi Richard,

apart from the connection problems I am curious how it all works (as a synth).

From everything I found on the internet I understand that moving any knob/lever on the first JP-08 will send its values via sysex to the second one. And also that you have to copy (using your computer) the presets from one to the next before you chaing them up, but:

- When presets on both machines are equal and you save a setting on the first one, does that store the settings in the second one too?
- What about the sequencer and the delay functions, how do they work in chaining mode?
- Is the chaining really transparant? Do you have the feeling of a mighty jupiter 8 now?

Just curious.

Albert

[richardbates1]

Hi Richard,

apart from the connection problems I am curious how it all works (as a synth).

From everything I found on the internet I understand that moving any knob/lever on the first JP-08 will send its values via sysex to the second one. And also that you have to copy (using your computer) the presets from one to the next before you chaing them up, but:

- When presets on both machines are equal and you save a setting on the first one, does that store the settings in the second one too?
- What about the sequencer and the delay functions, how do they work in chaining mode?
- Is the chaining really transparant? Do you have the feeling of a mighty jupiter 8 now?

Just curious.

Albert

Hi Albert, yes when poly chaining every change you make on JP-08 1 will occur on JP-08 2.
The patches have to match up on both synths
When you make a change of the first synth and want to save the change you have to go through the saving process on both synths.
The delay on the first synth will effect the second.
Also the sequencers do work together.
You can also play around with the sequencer by having synth 1 and synth 2 with different patches

And yes it is like having the 8 voice Jupiter 8 as far as I know, since i have never played a Jupiter8 but from the video comparisons I have veiwed they sound really close so this is the closest to a Jupiter 8 I will ever come to.............just a note of interest 8 voices when playing large chords will run out of voices, so I stay away from using large chords. But the original Jupiter 8 would do the same.

If you plan on getting a JP-08 it is imperative to get the second other wise just having the one can be really limited on the voices.

Cheers
Richard

[tboneuk]

I have in the JX and JU as neither of those have any noise issues

Just wanted to follow and say after trying multiple configurations all the units do have some level of noise not just the JP-8 which was my original thought. Not really a hum but there is deffinatly a 'computer type interference' noise being generated when running from USB.

As the original poster pointed out using batteries eliminates the issue so its either

1) Forget the USB and use good ol midi
2) Invest in some more expensive USB cables.

I am still evaluating these units so I am a little reluctent to purchase hi-grade usb cables till I find out if overall they are worth keeping.

[richardbates1]

I am once again having problems with he USB power unit for my second JP-08.
I purchased a 500ma 5V USB unit, it will now not power up the JP-08 any JP-08 1 or 2?
Using this power unit the JP comes up for a split second then turns off.

I got the 500ma because on the Roland site the specs stated that it's power draw was 500ma.
Do I need a more powerful USB unit like a 1000ma?

How can this be such a problem, did Roland not take this issue into account?

Problem:
1. Using 2 USB cables to the computer from 2 JP-08's create irritating oscillating noise
2. Using batteries is a pain in the arse but no noise
3. External USB power unit/charger doesn't power up the 2nd JP-08
4. They give no solutions on the site or explanations about using a second power unit or what type of unit to use? 500ma 5V, 9V OR 12V OR 1000MA 5,9 OR 12V

How can they not plan for poly chaining 2 units??????? without problems??? Yowza! Yowzal!!

[tboneuk]

Feel your pain - bud

This is the best solution I have so far. I am using two iPhone power supplies just supplying power via the USB plugs. Ran a midi out to the first JP and then a midi from out JP#1 to JP#2

The annoying noise has gone but this is certainly in the nay box as it means I will have to power them up via usb and purchase a second midi interface so I have separate midi for 2xJP, the Ju and the Jx. I guess one solution would be to get a separate usb hub and just use that as the central source for power so I wouldn't need separate supplies for each.

Incidentally these iPhone power supplies are rated at 1A

[tboneuk]

They give no solutions on the site or explanations about using a second power unit or what type of unit to use? 500ma 5V, 9V OR 12V OR 1000MA 5,9 OR 12V

It is usb so its will be 5V

As the unit is rated at 500mA a safe bet would be anything between 500mA - 1A

[richardbates1]

They give no solutions on the site or explanations about using a second power unit or what type of unit to use? 500ma 5V, 9V OR 12V OR 1000MA 5,9 OR 12V

It is usb so its will be 5V

As the unit is rated at 500mA a safe bet would be anything between 500mA - 1A

So you say your iPhone charger works as a power unit?
I just purchased one from Apple based on your success with that.
We'll see if that works? it should arrive Wednesday.

I wonder why my USB power unit doesn't power up my JP?????
If my USB power unit would power up the JP-08 my problem would be solved......I think????

Thanks for your response.

[tboneuk]

Working so far.. They do not seem to be getting warm (a tell tale sign of too much current being drawn). At 1A they should easily power the units. I just happen to have a few around the house otherwise actual apple power supplies would be a bit expensive. Of course, at least they are the rating they claim. Many cheap knockoffs are underpowered (very subjective so I'm sure there are good ones out there).

I really think that a better solution would be to get a powered USB hub (something that is rated at 1-2A) and then use that to supply the boutiques. Thinking about it the hub I had powered all 4 boutiques just fine for the last few days so maybe I should have just disconected the usb from the computer and used the hub as a supply! The hub provides the power or the computer would be overloaded.

The question is would that anoying noise be present. I.e does any usb create this effect or just when data is being sent from the computer. Power supplies do not have the data leads connected in the usb plug, only the 5v and Gnd a hub obvioulsy also has data, so if the noise is inherent to the hi-speed frequencies of usb and not specificly to data from the computer being sent (i.e the midi stream) my guess is that it will still be noisy.

I will try the hub on its own in a while... spent way too much time crawling under the desk and plugging things in and out for now lol

[richardbates1]

Working so far.. They do not seem to be getting warm (a tell tale sign of too much current being drawn). At 1A they should easily power the units. I just happen to have a few around the house otherwise actual apple power supplies would be a bit expensive. Of course, at least they are the rating they claim. Many cheap knockoffs are underpowered (very subjective so I'm sure there are good ones out there).

I really think that a better solution would be to get a powered USB hub (something that is rated at 1-2A) and then use that to supply the boutiques. Thinking about it the hub I had powered all 4 boutiques just fine for the last few days so maybe I should have just disconected the usb from the computer and used the hub as a supply! The hub provides the power or the computer would be overloaded.

The question is would that anoying noise be present. I.e does any usb create this effect or just when data is being sent from the computer. Power supplies do not have the data leads connected in the usb plug, only the 5v and Gnd a hub obvioulsy also has data, so if the noise is inherent to the hi-speed frequencies of usb and not specificly to data from the computer being sent (i.e the midi stream) my guess is that it will still be noisy.

I will try the hub on its own in a while... spent way too much time crawling under the desk and plugging things in and out for now lol

Thanks for your input, maybe I purchased a crappy USB power unit it was only $8.00 off Amazon.
The USB from Apple cost me $19.00......so I hope that works?
I tried a USB hub I had around the house, I plugged both units into the computer via the Hub and still got the noise, I think the secret may be only 1 synth can be plugged into the computer at a time? That creates an audio loop per Paulo's insight and comment and using external USB power supply (quality one that actually works) will solve the issue. Iv'e got my fingers crossed for the Apple unit.

[marctronixx]

ive 3 jp-08s in their keybeds and no noise or power issues.

you can use any standard usb cable. I am using three different cables from three different products. dont spend extra money on "apple" brand usb cables.

shorter usb cables are preferred over longer ones due to the length of cable and resistance in the cable. longer the cable, the power trails off.

usb hubs are 50/50 so if you plan to get one, make sure its of high quality and the power is clean. should there be any voltage potential betwixt the cables connected to the boutiques, you will notice this at output and/or weird shenanigans WRT operating the synths.

im using plain old AC power with the synths. I have also used a 50 000 mah power battery back for each (i have several of these that i use for other things) with no issues.

factory reset each synth and as mentioned when you alter the settings on one, its sent out to the next synth. you can also mix and match the synths or even use another different brand synth, however the sound may be different since its a different brand/module.

having no issues with my jupiter-12. this is as close as i will get to a jupiter 8 (I do have a j80 and juno 60 however)

do it.jpg (55.93 KiB) Viewed 2758 times

[richardbates1]

ive 3 jp-08s in their keybeds and no noise or power issues.

you can use any standard usb cable. I am using three different cables from three different products. dont spend extra money on "apple" brand usb cables.

shorter usb cables are preferred over longer ones due to the length of cable and resistance in the cable. longer the cable, the power trails off.

usb hubs are 50/50 so if you plan to get one, make sure its of high quality and the power is clean. should there be any voltage potential betwixt the cables connected to the boutiques, you will notice this at output and/or weird shenanigans WRT operating the synths.

im using plain old AC power with the synths. I have also used a 50 000 mah power battery back for each (i have several of these that i use for other things) with no issues.

factory reset each synth and as mentioned when you alter the settings on one, its sent out to the next synth. you can also mix and match the synths or even use another different brand synth, however the sound may be different since its a different brand/module.

having no issues with my jupiter-12. this is as close as i will get to a jupiter 8 (I do have a j80 and juno 60 however)

do it.jpg

Your a lucky man!

[tboneuk]

The question is would that anoying noise be present. I.e does any usb create this effect or just when data is being sent from the computer. Power supplies do not have the data leads connected in the usb plug, only the 5v and Gnd a hub obvioulsy also has data, so if the noise is inherent to the hi-speed frequencies of usb and not specificly to data from the computer being sent (i.e the midi stream) my guess is that it will still be noisy.

Tried a couple of different powered hubs to just power the boutiques and both still created noise so looks like I will keep using the iPhone PSU's for now