Boutiques and Latency/Lag, Your thoughts?

Forum for boutique synths
horacewimp
Posts: 39
Joined: 11:07, 12 January 2016

Re: Boutiques and Latency/Lag, Your thoughts?

Post by horacewimp »

i was curious and made some tests with my JP-08.
I used a patch with very short attack-time and no filter and resonance at all, the JP is controlled via USB-Midi from Logic X, the audio goes back through an Apogee Rosetta AD and is recorded via SPDIF.

Playing back some notes and re-recording them in Logic simultaneously results in a latency/lag of ca. 1 ms (the gap between the midi note start and the beginning of the recorded audio), no more. I made a few tests and I am still surprised, but it seems to be correct. And i never noticed any latency while playing the JP08 - standalone or via Midi/USB, that's right.

My Boutique JP08 was one of the first devices that were delivered here in Germany. But i cannot imagine, that there are such massive differences in latency between these synths. Strange indeed - but of course i'm happy that i don't have this problem... ;-)
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cloudburst
Posts: 181
Joined: 20:00, 11 November 2015
Location: Northern Ireland
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Re: Boutiques and Latency/Lag, Your thoughts?

Post by cloudburst »

Just did another couple of tests.

Latency with JP-08 - 10ms.
Latency with SH-01A - 0ms.
No difference between triggering via MIDI cable or via USB-MIDI.

CB
horacewimp
Posts: 39
Joined: 11:07, 12 January 2016

Re: Boutiques and Latency/Lag, Your thoughts?

Post by horacewimp »

i repeated the tests, and did the same for the Roland VP-03 (Vocoder/Stringensemble).
Nothing really new - but i noticed that the lag/latency increases a bit to 3-4 msec then playing 4 note polyphonic chords.
The VP-03 shows a similar behaviour, very small lag (0.5 - 2 msec) for single note playing, a bit more, 2 -3 msec for chords (the vp03 does not deliver fast attack-envelopes, but by zooming into the waveform it is possible to see the exact start of incoming audio)

So far, so good - my two boutique synths do obviously not have any problem with lagging.

(used hardware/software : iMac i7 3.5 2014, MacOS Sierra, Apogee Rosetta AD, Behringer UMC1820 (for spdif) , Apple Logic X Pro 10.4)
NevinDouglas
Posts: 5
Joined: 20:28, 19 February 2017

Re: Boutiques and Latency/Lag, Your thoughts?

Post by NevinDouglas »

cloudburst wrote:
orcoaffamato wrote:I have no latency at all if I use USB MIDI, instead I have noise...
Bit of a workaround, but what's the noise situation like if you use USB MIDI but reboot your JP-08 holding down the Patch Preset 1 button each time whilst powering on (to force use of batteries rather than USB power)?

EDIT: I did a very quick comparison using my JP-08 and don't get the same results as you. With MIDI cable connection or MIDI over USB to the JP-08, I get a 10ms delay. I'm not using USB for audio. My belief is that the latency is caused by the JP-08's processing throughput to produce the note once it receives the MIDI instruction. But, I'm no expert.

CB
I know this is off topic from the OP, but I've found a workaround for the noise issue while still using the USB for power & audio/midi. It might not be worth it for everyone, but it was for me.

The Arturia Beatstep Pro comes with a little "Y" shaped USB cable. It was designed to solve the issue of ground-loop hum when powering the Beatstep Pro via USB (which is the same reason the Boutiques hum when powered via USB).

This Y cable is also compatible with the Boutique series. You plug the Y cable into the USB port on the Boutique, and then you plug 2 separate USB cables into the other ends of the Y cable. One of these cables will carry audio and midi, the other will carry the power.

My live setup was built around 3 Boutiques all running into an MX-1, along with a few other pieces of hardware. I contacted Arturia and ordered 3 replacement cable kits for the Beatstep Pro (each of these replacement kits included 1 of the Y cables that I needed). So each of my Boutiques had one of these Y cables plugged into the USB ports, then 1 cable going to a USB input on the MX-1, and another cable running to a powered USB hub which was supplying power to the boutiques. Solved my hum issues wonderfully.

Regarding the latency issues, I never found the latency problematic with my live setup (I was running a TR-09, JP-08, and JU-06). I used my Arturia Beatstep Pro to send MIDI to the Boutiques and my MX-1, then MIDI out from my MX-1 into my Novation Circuit, as well as MIDI out from the MX-1 to my Aira TB-3 via USB.
I could tell that my synths weren't perfectly in sync with each other, but it was tight enough that I was able to perform and record with that setup and it sounded fine. That said, I was using a lot of washy pads with delay all over the place... not exactly the most "precise" sounding stuff. So I could certainly see it being problematic for some people. Also, I have no experience running my boutiques straight into my PC, so I don't know if the latency is any better or worse in that scenario.
meneldor
Posts: 1
Joined: 11:00, 13 March 2018

Re: Boutiques and Latency/Lag, Your thoughts?

Post by meneldor »

I'm also having massive latency issues, upwards of 60 ms, rendering the unit pretty much unplayable. Happens both when using the integrated soundcard on the JX-03, as well as with the midi-DIN input. Pretty crazy!
I can get it down to 22 ms when using a sample buffer of 32, but that's hardly ideal of course. Live reports the overall latency as 3ms at that point, which would be great were it true...
Does anyone have some troubleshooting tips?
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etherweet2
Posts: 1
Joined: 01:33, 17 June 2019

Re: Boutiques and Latency/Lag, Your thoughts?

Post by etherweet2 »

its probably been mentioned somewhere in the discussion, but how do all these boxes perform if you are using midi sync and maybe using an motu midiexpress 128 for example.

someone posted about usb noise. usb IS noise and you get computer motherboard and power supply noise from usb real easy.

i switched to midi express and got rid of that crap.

.015 seconds..... ummm
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