How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Other Roland synthesizers, modules, keyboards, etc.
Post Reply
Nkredible
Posts: 46
Joined: 17:53, 21 January 2004
Location: Kalmazoo, MI, US

How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by Nkredible »

I'm not that familiar with the real nuances of organs or how to manipulate them....but i've always wanted to get this sound out of organ patches. It's hard to explain..but it sounds like a "down-rolling" slide type thing on the organ....if anyone is familiar with hiphop....just blaze uses it in the fabolous song called "cant let you go" ...it plays behind the guitar and bass during the chorus/hook....somebody let me know how to get this sound out of organ patches

www.nkredible.net
www.soundclick.com/nkredibletracks
mucsusn
Posts: 1589
Joined: 23:31, 2 July 2003

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by mucsusn »

The biggest thing about a real Hammond keyboard is their construction and assembly........it's called waterfall keys. The edges of the key have a smooth radius into a complet side. This makes glissandos and that rolling sound you refer to much easier than synth keys, which have little or no side material. If you watch videos of hot Hammond players, you'll see them roll and gliss with the palm of their hands in addition to fingers slides. Plus, a true Hammond action has a great and quick return which lends itself to staccato and percussive rhythms.
Nkredible
Posts: 46
Joined: 17:53, 21 January 2004
Location: Kalmazoo, MI, US

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by Nkredible »

when u say "edges" of the keys...do you mean at the left and right side of keys? Thus making it less "painful" so to speak when sliding your palm/finger across the keyboard? I was thinking rolling across the keyboard would get that effect but i wasn't sure...it always seemed like it wasn't "rapid" enough to the exact sound i was trying to get. thanks

www.nkredible.net
www.soundclick.com/nkredibletracks
mucsusn
Posts: 1589
Joined: 23:31, 2 July 2003

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by mucsusn »

Yes, that's what I mean. If you ever encounter a Hammond organ, or a Roland VK or VR760, try them and you will see what I mean.

It's not just the pain factor.........it just plain works better for that style because it is so smooth........remembering of course that it is also a function of the action, which brings into play key weight, spring tension and fulcrum location. Hammond keys are pretty light and short stroked, and you can play staccato much faster on them than on most synth actions. So your observation about being rapid enough is correct, but goes deeper than keyshape.
heder
Posts: 30
Joined: 10:02, 26 December 2003
Location: Vitoria - Brazil

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by heder »

mucsusn,
Have u played on VK-8/VR-760 keyboards? Which of them have the best quality in organs questions?
Where can i get a list patch of VR-760 and videos?
mucsusn
Posts: 1589
Joined: 23:31, 2 July 2003

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by mucsusn »

Yes, I've demoed both of them, and what is best depends on your needs. The 760 is geared to performance.........one set of drawbars, plus a decent piano, ep's strings and a few synth patches, plus room for an SRX card or two.

The VK-8 is a dedicated organ clone, with more patches and effects.

So really, what is best, is what suits your needs better. They are both excellent tools.

Don't know about 760 patches and demos, other than to check the Roland site.
heder
Posts: 30
Joined: 10:02, 26 December 2003
Location: Vitoria - Brazil

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by heder »

mucsusn,
Lets to anotehr way.
If u are owner of a Fantom and u´d like to Add nice organs sounds, and u are a gospel musician, what would u do?
a) U´d add a SRX-07 which have some organ timbres.
b) U´d buy a VR-760.
And, Why?

* The organs timbre quality of VK8, VR760, SRX07 are the same? They are on a same level?

Thanks.
jsepeta
Posts: 283
Joined: 07:21, 31 March 2004
Location: Indiana USA
Contact:

vk-8

Post by jsepeta »

i own a vk-8. i upgraded to it after owning a hammond xb2 for a number of years (which was itself an upgrade from the original non-midi korg cx-3).

the vk-8 is a phenomenal hammond clone. unlike the new cx-3, it has COSM amp modelling built in, which means you can really grunge up the sound. and unlike the fantom S/X, it's got waterfall keys and drawbars (great), but no display (UGH) and only nails organ sounds properly (the other built in tones - piano, strings, choirs - are a joke).

if you're serious about playing organ, i recommend trying out the vk-8 at your local dealer. that, plus my fantom-s, are proving to be a great combo for live work.

---
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Check out my site: www.lo-res.com
vintage synth rescue kits, logic screen shots, and more!
heder
Posts: 30
Joined: 10:02, 26 December 2003
Location: Vitoria - Brazil

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by heder »

jsepeta,
Ok. And what about organs timbre quality of VK8, VR760, SRX07? are they the same? Are they on a same level?
Are there great differences betwen them?

Are u brazilian? This nick is known...
mucsusn
Posts: 1589
Joined: 23:31, 2 July 2003

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by mucsusn »

The SRX-07 plus the XV patch bank provide a fantastice combination of organ waves and patches. If you already have a Fantom, then it is hard to beat on price. Like jsepeta said, however, the addition of those waterfall keys totally changes the equation from a performance point of view, especially if your fantom is an 88.

The 760 adds a nice set of additional performance patches, plus SRX expandability. Again, the balance is up to your exact performance requirements and checkbook depth.

Bottom line..........I have and FS88 with the XV patch bank (edited to my needs) and the SRX-07 installed. I am continually impressed by the variety it offers. If I had a spare 2 grand to throw around, I'd have a 760 in a heartbeat, because my bread and butter is live work.

The 760 and 8 both have great COSM modeling
jsepeta
Posts: 283
Joined: 07:21, 31 March 2004
Location: Indiana USA
Contact:

brazilian? ha!

Post by jsepeta »

nope, I'm 100% American mutt -- half Polish (Sepeta was Sepetowski 3 generations ago), quarter French, quarter German.

I could never get the hang of the 760. I can see where you might use it as a single board if you're playing live, but it reminded me more of a houseboat -- an uncomfortable mix of different kinds of keyboards. Perhaps I'm just too conservative!

Silly bonus feature of the VK-8 -- set the D-Beam to control the Spring Reverb effect. Play a cheesy drawbar setting, then WHAM wipe your hand over the D-Beam to "slam" on the brakes. Pure 60's fun.

---
Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Check out my site: www.lo-res.com
vintage synth rescue kits, logic screen shots, and more!
mucsusn
Posts: 1589
Joined: 23:31, 2 July 2003

Re: How do i get that "down-rolling" effect on organs?

Post by mucsusn »

Yeah, I agree from a single keyboard perspective.........but I think it would be an awesome top board on a two board rack.

For owning a single board, it's not quite versatile enough, but as a second it can fill in some nice gaps when the Fantom is busy. So many choices. Add a good rack unit and the possibilities are endless.
jsaxe
Posts: 3
Joined: 03:06, 24 September 2013

Re: How do i get that

Post by jsaxe »

Greetings all!

This is my first post here, and I thought i'd jump in - I've been gigging my VR-760 for about 10 months now. Previously, I used a chopped Hammond M3 with my old Yamaha DX-7 on top, plus JV-880 and 1080 in a rack cabinet (overkill...). I'm so very happy to only have to carry my V-Combo plus a Roland JC120 to shows now.

The 760 does a great job for just about every tune my band plays, and as a multi-Hammond owner I can say that the feel of the keyboard is just great - the only thing missing is the nine contact keying. When I first got it, I set up a shootout with my 1956 C3 and 1959 Leslie 147, and the comparison was very impressive. The Roland was brighter on the higher octaves than the Hammond, but then the C3's never been (and probably never will be) recapped. The Leslie simulation is wonderful, and I wish Roland/Boss would incorporate it's technology into a second generation RT-20 pedal.

I'm not any great shakes as a piano player, so the rather weak acoustic piano patches aren't too much of a problem, I like the Wurlie and Rhodes patches - better than my '75 Rhodes Stage 73 in fact. The harpsichord is terrific, but isn't very useful in a blues band.

The only issue I've encountered is the bender lever doesn't seem to return to center and if I'm not careful, I'll end up playing out of tune. As an organist, I don't really need a bender, except to simulate the effect of quickly switching the organ off and on again for the tonewheel braking effect.

It makes a pretty good MIDI controller too and I'm thinking of gigging my JV-880 with the SR-JV80-08 card, because I love the "Blues Perc" patch and I can't seem to dial it in on the drawbars.

John
Post Reply