V-Piano in ken's music room..

Other Roland synthesizers, modules, keyboards, etc.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

i installed the alicia's keys VST and ran into 3 issues... seems like it takes forever to load initially (like it shows a progress screen and converting something for like 5min... i thought my mac froze. lol after it converted i keep my macbookpro in sleep mode when i carry it around so it doesnt take that long on the next use. my macbookpro is an i5 with 8GB RAM.

then the issue with my CP triggering cubase to play this VST on kontak4 latest version. upon first load for some reason data gets stuck and notes drop off, needed to do a relaunch of cubase. it could be a Kontak thing cause it does the same on the scarbee Mark1 plugin. once relaunced it seems to play fine.

it could also be that the USB hub needs power (my mbp only has 2 usb ports where i need 3...one used for the Cubase dongle key, one for CP1, and one for Ci2+ which is my audio interface. steinberg should've put a USB port for the dongle on the Ci2+, or even include that feature inside the Ci2+'s circuit. pretty dumb if you asked me, but it could be that the Ci2+ needs all the usb power it can get.

i ordered a new hub that comes with a separate power adapter so hoping that corrects this issue. i haven't run into this problem using AI5 which doesn't require a usb dongle...so im pretty sure it's that hub causing this.

then finally the alicia's keys VST itself... thing's latency is stupid laggy slow... i read online that NI has a v1.2 which fixes this so i will download today. would've been nice if the NI Service software automatically points out to update my VST after install... there's a lot of missing links in these software installs so you need to be pretty computer savvy/internet search savvy in order to get this done right.

anyway...from wat i could get out of it yesterday and this morning, the piano, C3's sound itself is nice. i wouldn't trade my VPiano or my CP1's CFIIIS for it but vs the CP1's S6, i might. :D it's very melodic and rich. for the music i compose i think it will work well, as long as the update can fix this latency lag problem.

vs the TruePiano VST it's a very different sound so i suppose it can't replace that either. until i fix this latency issue though i can't really play the C3 correctly and compare vs other piano's. i can state that TruePiano has zero lag and plays like how it should. no stupid loading times, very light on the CPU. it's really a plug and play plug-in for anyone that wants to try their VST.

one last note... my CP1's sustain pedal does not seem to transmit half pedal info to my mac via USB. i tried several settings within the CP1 but i couldnt' figure this out yet. will try some more and if it doesnt work im going to trigger off my FantomG8 to see how it does. :) at the end of the day im going to be primarily using these VST's off my FantomG so i not a huge issue at the moment.

i need to save up now and get the Pianotec to try. :p
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

i loaded up all the updates available and ran a couple of tests. have to say kontakt is very buggy on initial load when my MBP wakes up from its sleep. even when you quit the player it has a hard time clearning out the old memory (even if i hit purge) and re-loading or something. if i were to do a full restart it basically takes like 10min for everything to load after it searches for the samples. in all honestly this waiting time is a huge waste of time. right now i only have 3 instruments loaded... AK C3, Mk1, and the free one-layer factory soundset from NI. i was expecting to use all 3 in my sequences but...

i sent out a tech service request to NI for the half-damper feature that keeps force closing AK and kontakt . even with nothing connected to my MBP it force closes. not sure wats up with that. and im not the only one apparently.

on the other hand, TruePiano loads up instantly and very consistent/stable standalone or as a plug-in for Cubase. works every single time, absolutely no issue. plays very smoothly too. im quite behind on VST's but for now i think TruePiano is something i can reliably use on a daily basis. :) i think pianoteq as well in the future since it's not sample based.

anyway... once AK loaded correctly (which can take kontakt several attempts) AK plays pretty smoothly. the sound itself is great. but even with adequate latency provided in the kontakt player setting, it still drops off notes if i play long notes and slow tempo passages. i5 /1333MHz / OSX / 8GB. should be plenty of power for software that was released 2yrs ago.

as for trying other hardware options like wiring up my MOTU MIDI interface, etc. to free up USB power, it didn't help kontakt at all. it's a problem inside the NI environment. all in all, at the moment VST will not be replacing either CP1 or VPiano for me. :D
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

still working on my novice saga on how to make the AK piano work flawlessly in my setup. right now i got it to play about 95% of the time without any clicks or release note cut-offs. im still scratching my head on what's wrong with my setup.

so i chatted with my wife who is a IT network consultant/programmer for some advise on how to make this all work. she suggested to turn off virus scan to speed up the sample loading process and potentially fix the clicks i hear occassionally while im playing; otherwise check HD rpm. turning off virus scan completely speeded up the loading time...and almost no clicks... :D but the clicks are still there, not as often now, but still there.

i checked everything i could think of, buffer/latency setting for both the host and standalone players, cache setting, turning off reverbs within the VST, adjusting polyphony, etc. as i watched the Kotakt Player's montior, every time i hear a click or sound tail cut-off it was when the DISK meter moved a little bit. CPU side of thigs my MBP seemed to have more than enough power with i5 dualcore 2.3GHz/8GB RAM. even with 4ms latency no issue playing...but once the disk moved it made click noises. thinking i had the 7200rpm HD i checked my MBP's specs again. i found out it came with a 5400rpm HD... humm...crap.

so as last-ditch effort, i ordered up a PortaGig 250GB/7200rpm harddrive this am. will re-install AK and my new GarritanSteinway into that later this week and see if it works click-noise/tail cut free. :p if this doesn't work then VST piano's are not for me. lol ...
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

finally got the external drive in my hands. will move the sample library to this drive and assign the VST paths and hope it all works out later on today... need to link AK piano, Steinway, Mk1... once this is done i will download a bass guitar and should be plenty of nice instruments to work with. :)
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

i got everything hooked up correctly and ran several tests. 99% of the clicks are gone and 100% of the tail of the notes dropping out is gone as well. yaay! (^o^)

i need to play with the host buffer when i play as plug-ins as im getting occassional clicks once maybe 3-4min of playing different passages. not sure if that would render in the track when i export or not but will play with buffer size and polyphony.

im amazed how little polyphony the garritan steinway needs. even with 64notes and lots of damper-pedal i can't really hear notes dropping out most of the time. :)

also got the NI pre-bass from scarbee on my kontakt. sounds excellent and super fun to play. :p
going to get a small input device, probably the akai LPK25, to use with my MBP at work and business travel.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

been playing with the VST plugin piano's (garritan steinway, AK, scarbee Mk1, etc) hosted by Cubase and running CI2+ as my audio interface. found that that Ci2+ has the longest processing speed vs the obvious Apple Coreaudio and my FantomG8 as my audio interfaces. for normal playing the longest total latency i can tolerate is 8ms. anything more is too darn slow and i cant play very well. the AK piano takes considerable more processing time to playback vs other pianos without any clicks and pops. Garritan Steinway isn't too bad.

with that, and given the fact that my MBP was purchased for my photography hobby rather than for music, i decided to run the MBP's coreaudio as my playback interface via the headphone output of the MBP as it can average about 5.5ms with no clicks or pops. :) i will use the Ci2+ for the foot pedal start/stop feature and the audio inputs when im mixing down my FG8's sounds into Cubase. Ci2+'s inputs are pretty quiet and recordings are very clean. i did several test takes and it turn out real well. :)

next time around when im buying a computer for music, i will most-likely run Win7 and use the Ci2+ for both playing and mixdown.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

for fun, im thinking about hooking up the MPB with Garritan Steinway to my VP and see how it plays. im curious to see how the piano action feels with their samples.

i have to say though, Garritan did a great job on the sample layers. even on the 'Basic' one i have that i downloaded for $99 or something, every 2 keys are sampled with multiple layers and the transistion is very smooth. might be all most folks need especially for live performance with other instruments. and unlike Nord piano, i can hit the hardest notes and actually get a nice sharp response on the mid to high registers. the reverb included in the Aria is very nice and EQ controls are just perfect for getting the nice sound to match your monitors or sound reinforment. :) one thing still lacking on the Garritan is an effective half-pedal. im hoping their v1.5 will offer full control.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

while still learning and gaining experience with VST's i found steinberg updated their firmware/driver for the cI2+ so gave that a shot. lucky for me i can now play heavy VST's at 128 samples (6.8ms latency) with no clicks or pops. :) while this is still not ideal as i prefer 5ms or less, i'll take it for now.

a few days ago i bought a bass-amp simulation plugin from studio devil for my scarbee pre-bass. it sounds great. :D

still on the fence if i want to get the JABB3 (garritan). it has steinwayB and nice selection of brass instruments. too bad my CP1 doesn't have modulation wheel cause i really need it to solo non-keyboard instruments... hummm... i tried triggering from the soft pedal but wow, that's like a on/off mod so wont work. hahaha. going to hook up the computer to my FantomG8 for sure.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

hey got the Garritan JABB3 and so now my FG8 is fully implemented in my DAW setup cause i need the modulation control to use as breath controller. my CP1 is sleeping in the corner of my music room. lol

im starting to wonder if there's a way to hook up my old yamaha BC2 or BC3 (was it?) to the MIDI and assign my physical breath controller. :D

also got LogicExpress9 (v9.1.5) to see how it works with the garritan steinway. im still getting faint audible clicks even at 256 samples especially when i lift the sustain pedal after hitting long notes. i think it has to do with the damper resonance within the garritan piano itself, the host can't process fast enough or something unfortunately. if i turn it off no issue. if i run standalone, i dont get these clicks... i tried all sorts of device settings in both cubase and logic but it seems to be the limitation. with headphones i can hear the faint clicks, via speakers it can go unnoticed. not a big deal? maybe. it is to me though...

will need to get the Steinberg Grand3 later on and see how it works in cubase i guess. lol anyway the Garritan Steinway is sounding fantastic in my quick trial mixes so im happy with it for now. im also liking the fact that my favorite drum loops in garageband is now a MIDI file in LogicExpress9. :D now i can make my own fills... superb! d(^^)b
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

I bought the pianoteq 'player' or whatever it was called 99 euro version


It sounds good in the middle and upper registers but the low register sounds like a frikken rubberband guitar or something. LOL. I like the dynamics and all sorts of personalized settings I can do. I am running off of my mbp with 2.3GHz ( I think, either 2.2 or 2.3G) i5 with 8G RAM. Still getting clicks even at 7.3sec latency...

I don't think their piano is at VPiano level as far as sound. I will play with it more to rid the clicks. It might be something to do with the damper pedal and keyoff noise emulation.

Panteq vs Garritan, I still like the Garritan Steinway better as far as sound. :) I noticed that if I remove damper pedal noise on the Garritan, clicks are almost gone. :) can't wait for Garritan's update.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

click saga for Garritan ends with MAX DYN setting to 512MB. :D

no more issue, running 32samples even though the ci2+, no issue. :) to keep headroom in DAW im running 128samples but with 6.8ms latency it's still very playable.

as for PianoTeq...i wont be using it probably. the more i play it the more fake it sounds. honestly i wasted my money on it. it is NO WAY a replacement for the VPiano.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

was playing the VPiano yesterday since a while ago (wife plays almost daily) and man the thing is super dynamic. :D awesome!

love the lower registers. so damn powerful with triple strings. hahahaha.

wish i could return the pianoteq. i seriously wasted my money. :(
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

going to be looking at Ivory2, i think, for next soft synth for my FG8. :)

i should seriously consider getting a SSD for my MBP. in this case i want to remove the optical drive and use the terminal to mount an internal 265GB SSD next to the internal HD. i would still boot and run software off the internal stock HD, but all sound libraries would stream off the SSD for fastest access. then i would use my external 7200RPM HD for work-in-process 2track audio off the FG8.

so basically for practice and playing for fun i would not have to have the external HD hooked up at all.
i can then move the MPB around the house or to work/friends place and use the headphone output to compose music off virtual instruments -only or demonstrate all the VST/AU i have. :) while im not using DAW my MBP will still have good low power consumption off the stock 5400RPM HD to maximize battery duration.

hummm...!
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

I decided to go with a 7200rpm 300G+ drive since it was cheap. I should have this dual internal HD set up in the next 10days. :)

I've yet to have any issues running 7200rpm via firewire800, so with the sata I should have absolutely no issue. :p
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

so i installed the new 7200rpm HD in where my optical drive was on my macbookpro. i cloned my external drive so nothing else to do. the computer reads off the new drive as if it was reading the external drive. :) I removed the external drive and played several hours. absolutely no issue so far. honestly i should've just went this route to begin with.... it was only like $160 shipped. crap. lol

they also gave me a case and driver for my optical drive i pulled out so i can just hook it up via USB... very happy with the end result. :p next up i will clone both drives to SSD when prices come down a little more.

one good side-effect from this mod was that my mbp does not run as hot as it did before with the Firewire800 external disk.

im doing all sorts of other tests this week to ensure it's not consuming tons of battery, etc. if things look okay im going to order up the ivory2 and some other strings software from NI. :) man, im still kicking myself for buying that pianoteq3 software. such a piece of crap sound. i hate it.
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