V-Piano in ken's music room..

Other Roland synthesizers, modules, keyboards, etc.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

after lots of tests i conclude that this is the best mod so far for my mbp for DAW :D there's two sources. i am sure you can do the same on your pc base notebooks.

if you get the regular HD, make sure you buy the 7200rpm one. 5400rpm is too slow for piano's.

http://www.mcetech.com (opti-drive)
http://www.otherworldcomputing.com (disc-doubler)

down the road (next yr?) i will be getting SSD's from owc above and install in both drive locations.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

so im now running the grand3 from steinberg v3.1. was kinda tinny sounding in stock form reminded me of nord's pianos (not very fun after playing some time). i should've just gotten the ivory2 which was my original plan but decided not to cause i have to buy the ilok dongle. i already use cubase so i was able to load up the license in the steinberg key without adding any more dongles.

after playing with the grand3, i found a nice eq setting to make the sound fuller. basically needs more umph around 250-350hz range, Q0.5 and just push about 4dB higher. lower registers, i just boosted maybe 1.2dB shelving around 90hz or so. i especially like the C7 Close (means player position close to the keys although their 'player' mic position is actually at the other end of the piano on the sound board side...werd and confusing). the SteinwayD and 290's are fine. i prefer my garritan steinway better. im not a piano player so not much of a 290 fan to begin with. never mind the upright or CP80 sounds. i dont really care for either of them. i dont know wats the big deal with the CP80. i rather have a tines based piano if they were going to include it but oh well. lol so far nothing has beaten my Scarbee Mk1 for rhodes. :p

overall response for the grand3 is decent but uses A LOT of CPU power. my i5 mac 2.3GHz with 8G RAM can only do about 150notes poly at 128K buffer before CPU overloads. 7200rpm HD is plenty fast and using the max RAM setting. convolusion reverb add too much latency when hosted via sequencer software. stand alone is fine. note thate poly of 150notes is not much on this plug in. one note usually takes 2-3 poly as it triggers note itself, note noise, any resonance, and if you lift off you trigger the key off resonance and key off noise sample. while it's very 'cool' to have these misc noises it just eats up a lot of CPU power.

i'd turn off the key noises and even damper noise if im going to be just playing to save CPU power for the up to 20 velocity levels. i'd be silly to use their Economy mode and limit to only 7 layers.

dynamics is good, but no where near the level of the VPiano by any means. it's about as good as the CP1's dynamics i think, which is plenty for most keyboard players. the grand3's C7's tonal character has more life than the CP1's CFIIIS or S piano's. overall im pretty happy with the grand3.

i might still get ivory2 down the road but for now im good. i want to get the CP1's official yamaha keyboard stand next. :p
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

played the VPiano yesterday. felt real good. also played my CP1. virtual piano's are great but the slight latency even 6ms is a bit noticable for me.

i saw that yamaha released a dedicated stand for the CP1/CP5 (LG800) so got one on order. :) can't have a nice digital piano like a CP1 and use some generic keyboard stand from quikloc! lol just a vanity thing.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

hey that CP1 stand by yamaha (LG800) came in and it's nice. it looks like they took parts laying around their warehouse, welded them together (nicely), and just painted it black but it's a perfect fit and finish. hahaha.
craftsmanship is very good; it is made in japan. very cleanly welded and painted. my CP1 looks very handsome on it. :)

wat i like best is the footprint. it is very compact and only maybe 15% larger foot print than the CP1 alone so it does not take up valuable space in my small music room. also stability. very stable forward/back a little movement if pushed from the side but nothing of concern. not sure about portability. i dont take my CP1 outside my room so i didnt care.

real happy with my purchase.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

Added a new RD700NX in my line up as well. :p

i played with all sorts of software piano's but to this day while they sound nice, playability (latency when all bells and whistles engaged) and reliablity (depending on host some had better/worse performance) seems to be still better on hardware based piano's. :)

so now i got the best of all worlds. :) have to say the VPiano/RD700NX PHA3 with escapement just feels too damn good.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

actually the RD700NX sports a different type of PHA3 vs my VPiano. first the ivory surface is a little more fine (not as fine as the CP1's keybed), and the keybed feels slightly lighter. not sure if it's just the keybed sensitivity setting or not as it's hard to compare the response between the RD and VP.

VP is significantly more dynamic than the RD700NX, but not as much vs when i compared the RD700GX back a few yrs ago before buying the VPiano. :) i let my wife play my new RD700NX and she liked the sound but mentioned there is a big gap in the dynamics behavior. i agree. but for me, im not a pianist so im okay with that since i use compressors and stuff to record. :) the RD's piano sound very good and more plesant to my ears than the VPiano. the EP's on the RD is a frikken joke. i hate them. but i have my CP1 for that so it's okay.

been running a Presonus audio interface with the virtual studio-live feature for my piano's. i like how i can contour the acoustics of the room (room modes) in parallel to the DAW. the latency is like 2.5ms so even i (very sensitive to these things) i am okay with it. just makes the entire playing experience more enjoyable.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

been figuring out my new RD700NX over the weekend and i think i pretty much got the grip of how to use the thing. :D

if you're wanting a VPiano but dont have the cash to spend that kind of money, i highly recommend the RD700NX for its keybed and piano's. there's a patch called "Brilliant Piano" on the RD and it's a similar sound and behavior to the VP. you dont get to fine tune the RD as intensely as the VP, but if you're not into programming sounds like i am, chances are you will be pretty satisifed with the RD's performance. :)

while my wife (plays classical piano as a hobby) wasnt' as excited about the RD vs my VPiano, she thought the RD's response was much better than that of my CP1's acoustic piano's (i agree completely) and would probably be happy with the RD if she didnt have the VPiano already. she also liked the harpsichord in the RD.

as for electric piano's, there is no way in hell the RD can beat my CP1. the CP1 just blows away the RD700NX's electric piano's out of the water. hahahaha
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

so i heard garritan got bought by makemusic, the makers of Finale.

not sure where that takes us as far as improvements on the authorized steinway they had going... they dont even sell the Pro version any more. hope they fix the pedal issues the thing has. not that i really care at this point after getting the hardware digital piano kings. :D
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

so been playing the RD700NX for a few weeks and i can conclude that this piano is still far superior to the software piano's especially with no latency issue, no CPU overload, etc. (im sure for those in the studio running server class computers this is not a problem but then that's not a stage piano. lol) just sit down and play and tweak the sounds to my liking. i luv that. the PHA3 feels fantastic. the surface texture is smoother than the one on my VPiano. honestly speaking, i like the RD's piano sounds better than my VPiano's especially for the kind of funky jazzy music i play. for classical piano my wife luvs the VPIano for its dynamics and sounds, and the harpsichord in the RD. :D hahaha.

vs my CP1's acoustic piano's the RD has quite a bit more character in the sound. tunability wise (if that's even a word) their processes are quite different so can't really say one is better than the other. the piano sounds themselves is really a matter of taste to the user. if you're a yamaha acoustic piano kinda person definitely get the CP1. i miss the damper noise on the CP1 as it's not offered...and the keybed is more suited for electric piano's which in my case is perfect. also the sample loop you can hear on the CP1's acoustic pianos is ikky... while i have 2 tone generators running to hide the looping, RD doesn't require one to do anything. imho the RD's ConcertPiano (first patch) with some tweaks sounds very VERY good. :) CP1's electric pianos are modeled so no looping, and the DX sounds are off an actual fm tone generator inside the CP1.

Tines pianos... i spent probably 20-30hrs off and on programming the tines on the RD. i have it to where it sounds good, but wat i dont like about the RD's Tines is that it doesnt sound very organic in the middle registers. it has a ugly fuzzy texture to the tone. same thing on the ARX02 on the Fantoms. the very bottom is borderline good, top sounds good. there's not much dynamics if you try to get any barking or brilliant sound to come out (you have to use LIGHT keytouch setting) which is a let down for me. if you've never really dealt with programming the CP1 you dont know wat you're missing so you might be okay with the RD's EP's.... also on the RD im forced to work with the on-board compressor to limit the middle band freq when i hit the keys hard. im happy Roland offered the 3band compressor. it's like they knew wat i was thinking. :D you can play with the 3band compressor so that the LOW and HIGH compress lightly (i used 0ms on the LOW) and MID to limit pretty heavily and make it a pretty invisible compression overall. :) Roland needs to add an attenuation indicator though.. im my case i added 0 dB on the 3 bands, and the dial on the panel is turned all the way counter clockwise or zero. i just turn the compressor ON. i wanted the compressor to be hidden away as possible. last thing i want is audible heavy compression.

also unlike the SRV-12 you cant change the attack and release rate on the super-natural sound engine so you're really limited when it comes to tweakability in that sense. on the otherhand, the CP1's Rhodes just blows the RD away continuously without even trying. unlike the piano's in the CP1, the Rhodes pianos are very organic and imho can even replace the real thing if you dont feel like messing with tuning and mechanically fixing the electric piano. ive read about a user who had a Mk7 but sold it after having many problems with it and just bought the CP1. and he's not looking back either. hahaha.

overall im still very happy and excited about my RD. :) the other onboard sounds are okay... wasn't really anything new to me.

as an owner of the VPiano, RD700NX, and CP1 i will conclude (at least for now) that these are all 3 very different instruments and one can not replace the other. i might get a Nord Piano down the road to add to my collection but not sure. i like playing with sound. while i like how nord keeps updating their downloadable library, their piano's aren't really programmable other than adding some effects. wat they need to do now is to release a Nord Piano2 with much larger flash memory, add more velocity layers especially more in the upper registers, key release control, and offer a better keybed. their fatar keybed is a joke when compared to the PHA3, yet they ask for premium price. maybe they should assemble the thing in China and reduce cost to 1/3. for the sound and features i think the Nord Piano should be sold around $1500-1700.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

nothing much exciting released by roland today at the winter 2012 NAMM show, it looks like. i was checking out rolandconnect.com or watever and they have a few nice looking home digital piano uprights but nothing new for stage pianos. nothing for VPiano or RD700NX.... and no new Fantoms. :( so sad.

roland seems to have developed some kind of werd passion for digital pianos... new acoustic simulating speakers inside their digital upright pianos (kinda following their last year's release of the VPiano Grand which ive not even seen at piano stores yet, but in a more user price friendly package sub $21K), progressive pedals, etc. it's some great stuff if you're a pianist i suppose.

but im a keyboardist so kinda YAAAWN!!... but oh well. maybe us cool folks will see something new at summer NAMM.
pv88
Posts: 1
Joined: 02:37, 30 January 2012

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by pv88 »

Hi Ken,

Question:

How long have you had your V-Piano as of now, and, do you see any scratches, nicks, or, any other marks, on the "Ivory Feel" key tops?

I just acquired my V-Piano as of November, 2011, and, since then I already am seeing some nicks and scratches on many of the white key surfaces. Have had it for less than three months! I know for sure that this is caused by the fingernails hitting the keys, even though I do keep them well trimmed.

This is a known issue with many Roland keyboards that have the "Ivory Feel" key tops, and, I have requested that Roland replace all 88 notes with standard plastic keys, not another set of "Ivory Feel" ones.

I have registered the V-Piano online, and, am still under full Warranty at this time.

Best regards,

pv88
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

hi pv88- ive had my VPiano for a few years... i bought mine back in July 2009. i was one of the first owners in the USA as a consumer. my ivory tops are broken-in real well. the very top semi-gloss white wears off and you will see the matte white surface underneath. if that matte white surface wore off that's a problem but the matte white color is normal.

my FG8 is the same way, my RD700NX is the same way. nothing to worry about. it is the character of the keys. i wash my hands before i play so my ivory is very white and clean. :) i played the VPiano every day almost for 2yrs and last year i gave it to my wife who plays almost everyday. my kids play it too off and on.
no issue with wear or dirty keys. :)

my CP1 has the very fine feel ivory keytop. very similar to most yamaha acoustic pianos. that one barely wears but at the same time it doesn't feel as nice as the Roland's keybed imho. it's pretty slippery if your hands are cold or wet, only marginally better than say nord's fatar keybed.

in all honestly i luv how the roland's keybed wears. it shows character like a real instrument. it shows it was played a lot and it reminds me of the good time ive had with the instrument. :) i mean, not sure about you but i like my instruments broken in to how i play.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

pv88- kinda rude i replied to your question and your PM and no thanks or comments from you, dont you think?
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

2months old and one of my RD700NX's ebony keys broke. :( was playing and suddenly heard a stuck key. i first thought it was midi related but no, mechanically broke. but no sweat... ive done repairs on my keyboards many times over the 30yrs playing keyboards and synths so took the thing apart so see wat happened.

the balanced hammer arm fractured near the area where it gets pushed down by the key. so i removed the key (it's just a snap hinge at the top), took the arm out and superglued it reinforcing it with thin plastic (bascially used a thin clear box i had from a USB flash driver purchase) attached to the outside and insides of the area where it broke.

then proceeded to swap the arm with a key i dont usually play that hard in the top register. put it back together, took it for a quick 1hr test drive, everything works fine. :) i am asking my store if they can help me with a few replacement arms so that i can replace it down the road if it fails again. hope i have a response soon. :)

looking at the design, i think roland intentionally gave it a weak spot to minimize damage to the other areas of the keyboard assembly. the swap of the arm itselt took me no more than 30seconds. if i had a replacement arm, the repair would probably take me no more than 15-20min start to finish.
kenchan
Posts: 1876
Joined: 23:46, 22 December 2008

Re: V-Piano in ken's music room..

Post by kenchan »

the store's sourcing the counter weight arm replacement for my RD so should have it soon. the one i fixed is still working fine so no biggy. :p i think next time im going to borrow some nylon finger nail repair sheet from my wife and use epoxy. that will for sure reinforce even better and probably wont break in the same spot twice.

played my vpiano since about 2 months. feels and sounds good. such a huge sound it has. :) my version silver strings is my favorite. wife's been playing the vpiano almost every day.
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