Alesis Vortex 2 wireless MIDI and iPad USB in?

[AaronPDX1]

I'd like to control the Juno from an iPad (ForScore app to trigger performance changes etc.) and a Vortex Wireless 2 keytar. Is it possible to connect them both (iPad from the camera connector adapter [lightning->USB B] and the Vortex via the USB A wireless transmitter)? It seems Juno's USB A port is simply for storage, not MIDI communication, so that leaves just 1 port for 2 devices.

[vespina]

Juno USB-A port is only to connect a pendrive. MIDI over USB does not allow chaining, so you will need an external device called "MIDI host". You then connect your iPad, your Juno and your Keytar to this MIDI host and then you should be able to control both from your iPad.

[AaronPDX1]

Thanks for replying, Vespina. I suspected as much. Looks like this is the least expensive option: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203066888152?c ... 1&mkcid=28

[anotherscott]

you will need an external device called "MIDI host". You then connect your iPad, your Juno and your Keytar to this MIDI host and then you should be able to control both from your iPad.

A stand-alone MIDI host would give the keytar a 5-pin MIDI output. It could then connect to the Juno's MIDI In. The ipad also needs to connect to the Juno (which it could do through USB), but for the purpose at hand there's no reason for the host to also connect to the iPad (which would also be a little complicated, since the host itself has no place to attach it, once you attach the keytar dongle into its USB and the Juno to its 5-pin). Remember, the Vortex is only a controller, so it only needs to send MIDI, there's no need in this scenario for it to receive MIDI.

Thanks for replying, Vespina. I suspected as much. Looks like this is the least expensive option: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203066888152?c ... 1&mkcid=28

Not necessarily. The iPad itself also functions as a USB MIDI host, and you already own it. So that could be the least expensive option, at least if you already own a USB hub which would allow you connect both the Juno and the Vortex dongle to the camera connection adapter you already own, which makes this solution free. You do need an app to take the MIDI in from the Vortex and route it back out to the Roland, but I think the free Keystage Lite will do it. I'm almost certain this will work... but if it's free, it won't cost you anything to try it out. ;-)

[vespina]

That may work. You connect your iPad into the USB MIDI port, then connect your USB Host MIDI OUT to your JunoDS MIDI IN port (using a 9DIN normal MIDI cable), then connect your JunoDS MIDI OUT to you Keytar MIDI IN, and then activate the MIDI Soft-thru option on your JunoDS's MIDI System configuration.

[anotherscott]

That may work. You connect your iPad into the USB MIDI port, then connect your USB Host MIDI OUT to your JunoDS MIDI IN port (using a 9DIN normal MIDI cable), then connect your JunoDS MIDI OUT to you Keytar MIDI IN, and then activate the MIDI Soft-thru option on your JunoDS's MIDI System configuration.

Although the post I submitted before yours hasn't appeared yet (I don't know why my posts always take so long to get approved!)... There is no scenario here where you would need to "connect your JunoDS MIDI OUT"--or anything at all--"to you Keytar MIDI IN" -- there is no need for either the iPad or Juno to send midi to the keytar (which has no sounds in it).

[AaronPDX1]

Hmm, not exactly what I'm going for. I was hoping to connect the Vortex's MIDI USB A wireless receiver to the MIDI Host box and then MIDI out from box to Juno in, and the Vortex plays Juno sounds wirelessly.

[anotherscott]

Hmm, not exactly what I'm going for. I was hoping to connect the Vortex's MIDI USB A wireless receiver to the MIDI Host box and then MIDI out from box to Juno in, and the Vortex plays Juno sounds wirelessly.

Yes, that should work fine, it's what I said in my 9:07 am message that hasn't appeared yet. :-(

[AaronPDX1]

Anotherscott, this is a revelation! Thank you! Never thought to try a USB hub with the camera adapter. Nor was I aware of the free KeyStage Lite which is impressive. It does indeed work; i have the Vortex triggering AudioKit's SynthOne app while ForScore sends program change messages to the Juno DS. I'll just have to find a more robust USB hub, since my old Asanté doesn't want to give enough power to the Vortex. (Then again I don't want the Vortex wired to anything on stage, so I need to try batteries.)

[anotherscott]

Anotherscott, this is a revelation! Thank you! Never thought to try a USB hub with the camera adapter. Nor was I aware of the free KeyStage Lite which is impressive. It does indeed work; i have the Vortex triggering AudioKit's SynthOne app while ForScore sends program change messages to the Juno DS.

Glad it's doing the trick! Yes, this setup adds one more nice capability... not only can your Vortex trigger Juno DS sounds, it can also trigger other sounds running in apps on your iPad! (Of course, then you also need an additional connection to get audio from the iPad... but it sounds like you've got that covered.)

I'll just have to find a more robust USB hub, since my old Asanté doesn't want to give enough power to the Vortex.

It is common to need your hub to be a powered one, if you're connecting it to the iPad.

[AaronPDX1]

Yes, my hub's powered but apparently not enough. And I'm planning on just 1/8'' out from iPad, either to mixer, or into Juno as external sound source.

What I couldn't figure out is how to trigger iPad's Synth One app via the Juno if it's connected to my Macbook through the hub. I'd like to use Synth One as a MIDI sound module from apps on the Macbook (GarageBand, Reaper...). A shame Synth One's not available on Mac OS! Maybe you have insight into how to make this work?

[anotherscott]

Yes, my hub's powered but apparently not enough.

Interesting. In my experience, usually they either work or they don't. What's the symptom you're seeing that tells you it's working, but needs more power?

What I couldn't figure out is how to trigger iPad's Synth One app via the Juno if it's connected to my Macbook through the hub.

USB is a host-client (or master-slave) system. A single host can connect to multiple clients (that's what the hub lets you do, and how you're connecting your Vortex and DS to your iPad), but a host cannot connect to another host, and a client cannot connect to multiple hosts. So with USB, there is no way for a client device (like your DS) to connect to two host devices (the iPad and the Macbook).

Something that would probably work, though, is to create a USB connection from your DS to one of those devices, and a bluetooth connection to the other. You'd have to add a bluetooth dongle to your DS, like one of the widi devices from CME.

[AaronPDX1]

Anotherscott, is there a way that the Juno's "Soft Through" setting can allow me to use both the USB port and the MIDI out simultaneously? Macbook is connected to Juno via USB hub, and Juno's MIDI Out goes to iPad via iRig Pro interface. I'm thinking that recorded MIDI data could trigger Synth One app on iPad using Soft Through. Doesn't work so far though, so I assume you can't use both ports at once. Or is this another instance of 2 MIDI hosts, even though one (iRig) is only in the role of receiving?

[anotherscott]

Anotherscott, is there a way that the Juno's "Soft Through" setting can allow me to use both the USB port and the MIDI out simultaneously? Macbook is connected to Juno via USB hub, and Juno's MIDI Out goes to iPad via iRig Pro interface. I'm thinking that recorded MIDI data could trigger Synth One app on iPad using Soft Through. Doesn't work so far though, so I assume you can't use both ports at once. Or is this another instance of 2 MIDI hosts, even though one (iRig) is only in the role of receiving?

The "Soft Through" function was invented to take data from the 5-pin MIDI In and echo it to the 5-pin MIDI Out. I don't know whether the DS includes data coming in from or going out over the USB MIDI connection in that process, and the manual isn't that specific. So I guess you'd just have to experiment. I don't think it's a dual host problem, though, because the iPad and the Mac are independent of each other. Try this: Use USB to have the Mac send MIDI to the Juno (that should work fine by itself); and then use the 5-pin MIDI connector to have the Juno send MIDI to an iPad app (that, too, should work by itself). Then make both connections, and I think you'll see that both functions still work, meaning you CAN use both ports at once. The question then is really, I think, just one of exactly what the Soft Through does. We know it should take data from 5-pin IN and send it out the 5-pin OUT. There are other possibilities, and we don't know whether Soft Through does those... i.e. take data from 5-pin IN and send it out over USB; take MIDI data that comes in over USB and send it out the 5-pin OUT.