System-8 - My First Impressions

Forum for Roland's System-8 synthesizer
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rsaintjohn
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System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by rsaintjohn »

My System-8 arrived today, and I wrote up my first impressions after spending 4 or 5 hours with it this evening. I posted versions of this over on FB and on Gearslutz, so sorry if you're seeing it again. Warning, this is long!

First, I should note: I am by no means a seasoned expert, especially in synthesis. I'm somewhere between beginner and intermediate. I only bought my first knobby analog synths in the past year. Having said that...

The System-8 is a solid synth, in features, build and sound. But it is not the end-all, be-all of synths. If it was just the System-8 synth, I think it would be well-worth $1000. If you think (as I do) that the plug-outs and future expandability of the S8 are worth an additional $500, then the System-8 is absolutely a winner. If the plug-outs are of no interest to you (and I'll say more about the Jupiter-8 in a moment), then you have to decide if you think the System-8 synth (as a VA) is better or as capable than other offerings more or less in the same price range (JD-XA, Elektrons, Prophet 8 or 12, Nord Lead, etc.). Or you have to decide if you think its going to be 30% better than the DM12 (which I personally think sounds rather boring and shallow, regardless of analog, though I admire its feature set).

I'll probably be misunderstood for saying this, but the System-8 seems very much the successor to the JP-8000 or the JD-800. Actually, I think its very much like the Gaia SH-01 done right. As a piece of Roland technology, one of its highlights is taking so much of what's right about recent products (Gaia, Boutique, System-1, JD line), and then designing a solution that fixed much of what's wrong with them (sound, build, small controls, glossy surfaces, menu diving, etc.).

Obviously, it's not perfect and it could have been better: more voices, aftertouch, another LFO and so on (and I know people still hate the green Aira look; but it's adjustable, distinctive, supports the brand, and the sequencer/library buttons use a lot more colors than green). But if more features started taking it into the $2500 range, I wonder how well it would compete against Nord, Access, DSI, and even the Jupiter-80. $1500 was, I think, a good target: expensive, but not too expensive. And I feel I definitely got $1500 worth.

Regarding the System-8 default synth: I think this is currently the highlight of the System-8. Yes, it doesn't have the depth of, say, the JD-XA, and there will always be those who say that it doesn't sound analog. I won't be one of those. It sounds like damn fine analog to me. Smooth, warm and capable of real intensity. The basic tones are quite beefy, the options numerous, and the effects are really nice. Split and layered tones really open up the performance possibilities and sounds. Menus are minimal but well designed, and almost every option you'd want for MIDI and system options are there. Sequencer is awesome and easy, and that you can easily transpose the playback makes it so much more useful than other recent Roland efforts. One thing that is odd is that there is no metronome for real-time recording. There is, however, a metronome patch, so there is a workaround using that and performance mode and split to have a "temporary" metronome. MIDI seems to play nice with my other gear (receiving from Circuit, or sending to Sub 37). I haven't had a chance to try CV yet. Patch/Performance organization is very accessible, much more so than the JD's. I wish there were more user slots (8 empties per plug-out slot), but you can overwrite the presets, and the SD card makes it nearly irrelevant.

One of the more intriguing settings was supposed to be "Condition". I thought I had it figured out, but I didn't. At the moment, I'm having a hard time hearing any audible effect, and I need to experiment some more. It was only at the end of the evening that I started working from init tones, and it's easy to get swept up in crafting sounds. So many options! The System-8 synth is deeper than it looks, and the alternate waveforms, filters and routing options indicate to me that expert synthesists are going to have a ball with this and make some wonderful sounds and tunes. I'll go so far as to say that the System-8 may be a future classic for Roland. Again, IMO, a very worthy successor to the 8000/8080. Not as deep as the XA or the V-Synth, but (I think) much more accessible.

Also, I haven't yet found one bug or issue (I almost immediately installed the 1.02 update). For me, there were really no big SMH moments or features I tried where I thought, "Damn, Roland, you dropped the ball again." Maybe I'll find something in the next few days, but for now I'm quite happy. I think that the System-8 will be at the center of my setup (along with the Sub 37, Minitaur and Circuit) for some time to come. I'll definitely be letting go of a number of other synths, even some vintage ones. Like the Sub 37, this is a synth I want to focus on and learn to master. Perhaps a year from now, I'll feel more prepared to really take advantage of one of those $2000+ synths, or maybe Roland will take a shot at designing a better version of the JD-XA for that kind of money. I think they're definitely learning how to address their shortcomings.

One additional thing that pops into my head: some may find that the System-8 is not a Boutique replacement! If the simulacra layouts and original patches of the Boutiques are of value to you, don't expect the System-8 to replace them. When working with the Jupiter-8 plug-out, it certainly sounds like a better JP-08. But the alternate control layout (which works fine, btw) removed me from feeling like I was working with a tiny Jupiter-8. In addition, the presets that come with the plug-out are not a mirror of (or as many as) the Jupiter-8/Boutique presets. That probably won't matter to master synthesists who can probably recreate any tone of the Jupiter 8 or Juno 106 if given the controls of the S8. But it doesn't "feel" the same on the S8. So I may keep my Boutiques for awhile after all, just to make sure I'm not going to miss them.

Sorry for the "book" or any ignorance I've betrayed; just wanted to get my thoughts out there for anyone who is sitting on the fence about ordering one now or later, or at all. Hopefully some better musicians and synthesists than me will get some good audio and video up in the near future that show it off better than presets, company demos, or my own fiddling.
Synthtron
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by Synthtron »

Thanks for sharing.
I am on the fence on the System-8 and still on the fence with the JD-XA. If the JD-XA had 6 or 8 analog voices I would get it.
At the moment I am considering the Behringer Deepmind 12. 12 voices of analog for projected for $1000.00 is not bad at all though I do love my Rolands (which I own many).

I think my decision will come down to the Deepmind 12 or the System-8.
I will be looking at demos and such to make up my mind.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts again.
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PauloF
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by PauloF »

Synthtron wrote:Thanks for sharing.
I am on the fence on the System-8 and still on the fence with the JD-XA. If the JD-XA had 6 or 8 analog voices I would get it.
At the moment I am considering the Behringer Deepmind 12. 12 voices of analog for projected for $1000.00 is not bad at all though I do love my Rolands (which I own many).

I think my decision will come down to the Deepmind 12 or the System-8.
I will be looking at demos and such to make up my mind.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts again.

If your interest is on a PolyAnalog synth, the Deepmind12 is definitely the most suitable due to the 12 voice structure, but the System-8 seems a very well balanced offer, taking into consideration the ACB and the fact that it is a plug-out synth, capable of having up to 4 different synths at once and split /layering two of them, and the fact of having two Roland classics that some will give an arm and a leg to obtain (Jupiter-8), it seems an awewsome offer IMHO.

Cheers
Fa-tulist
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by Fa-tulist »

Could you test, if the System-8 would work as a audio and midi interface for an iPad?
CaesarMagnus
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by CaesarMagnus »

Fa-tulist wrote:Could you test, if the System-8 would work as a audio and midi interface for an iPad?
By USB...Not supported dialog, nothing recognizes it as present. UM-ONE or iRig by midi is all you can do.
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rsaintjohn
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by rsaintjohn »

Right, since the S8 USB is not class compliant, the iPad can't recognize it. But I have no problem with my M-Audio Uno (similar to the UM-ONE).
spottingjonah
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by spottingjonah »

My two cents -

The good
- The sounds are fantastic and give you a base of presets to build from.
- Both System 8 and Jupiter 8 PlugOut synths have a great sound. I'm very impressed with what Roland is doing with ACB.
- The faders and knobs feel fairly solid, spacing is usable, and layout is fluid.
- The green really isn't "that" bad, although I wouldn't mind some color changing options.
- Many of the functions seem very easy to get to and are fairly logically laid out.
- L/R Outs are TRS.

The Bad
- External Power Supply. 'nuff said.
- 8 Voices (and it's technically digital, so why the major limitation).
- 49 keys... Thank goodness for MIDI.
- The keys are the same type as on the new DS61. Same feel. Not bad, not great. Better than the System-1
- The build quality is average, but leaves a lot to be desired. It's extremely light, so no heavy bangin out a part lest you knock it off the stand. The case is OK, but is consistent with modern Roland's "toy" feel.

Overall, I really like it. It's a keeper. A lot of pleasant surprises. The bad things noted were all expected and understood when I bought it. Great technology under the hood, and nice workflow, but Roland could really help themselves out on the build quality a bit. 61 keys, more polyphony, beefier case, internal power supply, and this becomes a force to reckon with.

Cheers!
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rsaintjohn
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by rsaintjohn »

I reported a bug to Roland Support last night:
Defect: LFO does not modulate Color in System-8 mode

On the System-8 native synth, I'm finding that if the OSC (1 or 2) "Color" parameter is set to be modulated by the LFO, it seems that the LFO is always a sine wave. Changing the LFO to other waves (Saw, S&H, Square, etc) doesn't change that the Color param still sounds like it's getting a sine wave. This is the case with whatever wave OSC is set at.

This does not seem to be the case with the Jupiter-8 plug-out. The LFO seems to modulate PWM correctly in Jupiter-8 mode.
mimoid
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by mimoid »

Having played with the System-8 for a few hours, I completely agree with your conclusions. I also have the JD-XA to compare with, so I will try to fill in with some details regarding those two.

The JD-XA and the S-8 are two completely different instruments and definitely sound different too. The JD-XA is a deep monster that after a year, I consider a true four voice analog synth with some digital parts thrown in for good measure. By now, I have replaced all those horrible factory presets with my own, and almost none of them rely on the Integra SuperNatural sounds except for some additional sparkle and glow.

This whole crossover concept was obviously an attempt to create a new D-50 with a hybrid architecture, but to be honest, it's not done very elegantly. As long as you stick to the analog circuits, the JD-XA is a pure and beautiful analog monster - easy to use and easy to understand - and with an astonishing sound quality. However, as soon as you start stacking up the digital parts, you soon find yourself in a world of hurt. Balancing and finding the parameters for the digital parts is a mess, it requires deep menu diving and a pretty unforgiving workflow. The only times I really use the digital board is when using pads, strings or sounds with long release times, where I usually add a digital sound that sort of resembles the analog voices to mask any note stealing that might occur with just 4 voices. If Roland would release an 8 voice true analog JD without the digital parts, I would start saving like right now.

Also the MIDI implementation is a nightmare, you need to tweak every single patch if you are using the JD-XA with a DAW, otherwise bizarre and strange things tend to happen. You definitely need to know what you are doing with the JD-XA and nothing beautiful will happen by accident (pretty much like the Elektron synths that will not even reward you with a sound unless you first prove yourself worthy).

The S-8 on the other hand is a beauty of design. The user interface is nothing short of a handbook on how to build an analog synth. You tweak a button and you hear the result - just as you expected! After an hour, I discovered that I hardly even looked at the buttons any more (the labels are hidden by the encoders anyway), my hands were finding the right controls immediately. An amazing man/machine interface!

Soundwise it is... well, it is an analog synth. There is no other way to say it. My mind tells me that it is just lines of code in a box, but my heart is hearing a beautiful and soaring analog synth. No signs of anything else. As much as I love Diva, the S-8 runs circles around it. Furthermore, you can also tweak the sounds from a dark Moogesque murkiness to a metallic Korg-like glamor. Simply amazing! Most of the presets are reasonably well programmed, but you can go much deeper!

The synth is really light, but the construction seems sturdy, the encoders good and the green glow is really attractive. My only tiny gripe is with that same annoying cover as on the JD-XA above the connectors in the back - you need to be crouching under the synth to find the jacks you need. Why did Roland not print a duplicate set ot labels above the jacks that you can see from above? Also the Roland synths are the only ones I have where the labels of the encoders are printed behind the encoders and not in front of them! OK, small nuisances, and you will soon get used to them.

Both the JD-XA and the System-8 are keepers!

/// Tom
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rsaintjohn
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by rsaintjohn »

Spent the weekend getting to know the vocoder, doing a terrible version of Kavinsky's "Nightcall". I'm absolutely wretched at it but the vocoder is great! You can basically turn it on at any time, apply it to any of the patches or your own sounds. Works really well in Performance mode, using the vocoder in one part and a looping melody in the other.

Although I had a vocoder available with the JD-Xi, I never tried to use it, so I don't know how they compare. I think the Xi vocoder is probably limited to mono, and the System-8 vocoder can be used in poly mode. You can really get some wonderfully bizarre string/choral like sounds with the System-8 vocoder, much more than "Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto" :)

Also really useful on the System-8: that "first note/last note" feature of the sequencer. You can set up a whole 4-bar, 64 note sequence and use Last Note, for instance, to just play the first bar a few times as an intro, then let it go with just one button.

I'm actually grateful there's only the one plug-out at the moment, because between the S8 and the J8 modes, there's so much to explore. I've barely touched another piece of gear in 4 weeks!
bluemike
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Re: System-8 - My First Impressions

Post by bluemike »

Sound vise, I think this is a great machine and the plugout technology is awesome. There synth has just about enough green.... Much better than the System 1...

Keys are OK, pretty much what I expected... But the casing is not what I would expect for a synth in this price.
I think they should have had a metal front, that would have given the whole machine a different feeling

With all the plastic, it does not really feel like a Jupiter 8/ Juno 106 replacement. - at least not from the optics and the feeling

So at this point, I am not sure if I will purchase one or not... More likely not
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