D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Forum for Roland's System-8 synthesizer
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Moogerfoogers
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Joined: 20:16, 13 February 2017

D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by Moogerfoogers »

Any word on the probability Roland will add these to the Plug-Out collection? I'm very impressed with what Roland has done with ACB modeling so far.
zombietactics
Posts: 251
Joined: 21:51, 12 July 2016

Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by zombietactics »

The issue I see with both of the originals - D50 & CS80 - is that aftertouch was an important part of the sound of those instruments. In the case of the CS80 ... polyphonic aftertouch. For reasons unknown, Roland really dropped the ball - hardware wise - on the S8 and chose not to use a keyboard which was aftertouch capable. You could not even adequately model the original D50 factory patches ... as several of them depended upon this feature.
Moogerfoogers
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Joined: 20:16, 13 February 2017

Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by Moogerfoogers »

I just realized the CS80 was a Yamy synth. I also get that one confused between Roland for some reason.. So they probably never will
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CesarsoundOne
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Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by CesarsoundOne »

In my point of view, D50 will not be possible, because it uses samples. And CS80 is from Yamaha, then Roland cannot simulate the electronic circuits that Yamaha is owner.
zombietactics
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Joined: 21:51, 12 July 2016

Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by zombietactics »

CesarsoundOne wrote:... And CS80 is from Yamaha, then Roland cannot simulate the electronic circuits that Yamaha is owner.


This is not an issue from any legal perspective. That's not how patent laws work. Creating mathematical models, which duplicate the behavior of an analog circuit, is considered a type of "black box" reverse-engineering.

Even if Yamaha still retained a patent on the CS-80 design, someone would only be in violation if they used the same physical design, not a virtual design based upon the behavior of that circuitry. Consider that patents on electronic circuit design have a term of 20 years, and in most cases are not subject to renewal.

In order to obtain a renewal, Yamaha would have to assert that they are receiving revenue from exercise of the patent. Arturia already has a modeled CS-80 VST, and they pay Yamaha a small sum only for the use of the name and likeness, which are covered under copyright (not patent) laws, and have different terms and renewals.
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CesarsoundOne
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Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by CesarsoundOne »

The question is, why should Roland promote a product from his competitor?
Moogerfoogers
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Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by Moogerfoogers »

Because they have the best VA tech with ACB right now. & CS80s in good condition go for insane prices.
zombietactics
Posts: 251
Joined: 21:51, 12 July 2016

Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by zombietactics »

CesarsoundOne wrote:The question is, why should Roland promote a product from his competitor?
It's not a question of "promotion", but rather a question of taking advantage of an opportunity to make money by making customers happy.

Understand that Roland already models technologies from other name-brands, as does Korg and Yamaha. SuperNatural filters were openly modeled after Moog and Prophet filter characteristics, and several VA and PCM waveforms are either modeled after or sampled from other brand's instruments. The JD-XA has a "P5 Saw" waveform, for instance, as well a "MG1 Saw", etc.

The King Korg has uncanny models of Moog, Prophet, etc, filters ... no problem there.

Modeling an instrument no longer manufactured (and which is no longer covered by patent protection) isn't a problem ... it just puts money in Roland's pocket and makes customers happy.
Locksley
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Joined: 17:06, 17 December 2016

Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by Locksley »

Roland has stated they need, or at least it would help, to have the original schematics as well as the machine itself.
Now I would love a CS80 ACB clone, with added polyphonic aftertouch via midi so you could play it with a good keyboard (or Roli in my case).
I haven't gotten the CS80 Memorymoon ME80 since it is like most based on sampling part of the sound and then tweak it through an engine - I would rather see it all modeled with the new algorithms VA comunity has come up with.

I would not mind a totaly new synth too, like the System-8 engine that I think sounds great.

What is up Roland, what is next?
zombietactics
Posts: 251
Joined: 21:51, 12 July 2016

Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by zombietactics »

Locksley wrote:Roland has stated they need, or at least it would help, to have the original schematics as well as the machine itself. ...
... both of which are readily available.

Service manuals, schematics and specs are too easy to find: http://therogoffs.com/cs80/manuals/CS80_Service_Manual/

The only important thing to model is the voice cards, which are the same across the CS-50, CS-60 and CS-80 ... they crop up all the time for sale.
Locksley
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Joined: 17:06, 17 December 2016

Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by Locksley »

Then it is a done deal. Get to it Roland :D

System-8 is getting alot of praise from those who dig into it and alot of flack from those who like to spout hyperbole, like reading democrats and republicans discussing anything in the states....
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CesarsoundOne
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Re: D50 CS80 PLUG-OUTS

Post by CesarsoundOne »

Only time will tell...
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