Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Forum for Roland's System-8 synthesizer
Post Reply
Eroq
Posts: 7
Joined: 01:13, 6 March 2017

Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Eroq »

I have other gear like JD-XI and Fantom, but the System-8 is driving me crazy getting it to work with Logic. I have managed to set up presents and bank changes for Patch Mode Channel 1 ONLY. Can I get this thing to work in Performance mode and change patches? Can I get channel 2 to work then? There's not much documentation from Roland regarding this. This may not even be a Logic issue, because I can't even get channel 2 to respond from an external controller.
MIDI Studio.png
MIDI Studio.png (148.67 KiB) Viewed 3752 times
Logic Environment.png
Logic Environment.png (116.45 KiB) Viewed 3752 times
Has anyone been through this that can help?
Eroq
Posts: 7
Joined: 01:13, 6 March 2017

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Eroq »

Also, Roland seems to indicate that there are 2 channels. So what gives?
Roland MIDI.png
Roland MIDI.png (70.58 KiB) Viewed 3749 times
User avatar
rsaintjohn
Posts: 265
Joined: 02:56, 23 May 2015
Location: Cleveland, OH USA

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by rsaintjohn »

Did you change the MIDI channels in the System 8 menus to match those in Logic?

Did you get this, the System 8 Reference Manual PDF? It goes into all the details of setting up MIDI in the manual for both Patch and Performance modes. It really is very well-documented, just not in the printed Owner's Manual.
Eroq
Posts: 7
Joined: 01:13, 6 March 2017

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Eroq »

Yes. I did refer to the reference manual and checked the MIDI settings under system. They are all at default values.

Decice ID = 17
Remote Kbd = OFF
Omni Mode = OFF
Patch Ch = 1
Perf Ch = 16
Upper Ch = 1
Lower Ch = 2
All RX / TX are ON

It's confusing too. I installed the USB driver and now there are two ports: SYSTEM-8 and SYSTEM-8 CTRL. Not sure the difference, but I've tried both and combinations of both.

All I can RX and TX are channel 1 in Patch Mode.
User avatar
rsaintjohn
Posts: 265
Joined: 02:56, 23 May 2015
Location: Cleveland, OH USA

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by rsaintjohn »

Turn Omni Mode ON.

"If this is ON, MIDI messages of all channels are received (valid only in patch mode).

The MIDI transmit channel is either the Patch Ch (in patch mode) or the Upper Ch and Lower Ch (in performance mode)."
Eroq
Posts: 7
Joined: 01:13, 6 March 2017

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Eroq »

Thanks so much for the replies. I tried changing OMNI mode to ON and I get the exact same behavior.

Notes and patch changes work on Midi channel 1. The notes olay as normal and all patch changes between Sys8, Plugout1, and Plugout2 work in Patch mode. If I am in Performance mode, it changes back to the requested patch and back to Patch mode.

On Midi channel 2, it works exactly the same effecting Midi channel 1 patch changes and notes on channel 1. No difference if i am in Patch or Performance mode. If i send a patch change on Midi channel 2 while in Performance mode, it changes to Patch mode and changes to the selected patch. Notes played on Midi channel 2 while in Performance mode play on the Upper (which is set to Midi channel 1).

On Midi channel 16 whether i am in Patch or Performance mode, it will change to Patch mode and bring up the selected patch. Notes played on Midi channel 16 also play on Midi channel 1 in Patch and Upper (channel 1) in Performance.

I have MSB/LSB bank changes set up according to the Midi implementation sheet and they work fine for the three banks in Patch mode. I think those same bank changes cause the System 8 to jump to Patch mode.

When sending a Patch change for Performance, I don't know if there is supposed to be a MSB/LSB bank change as well.

I can't beleive there is no one out there already using mutiple channels. Let me know if you are.
Eroq
Posts: 7
Joined: 01:13, 6 March 2017

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Eroq »

Latest update:

1) Plugged a Midi controller in directly via Midi (not USB). I was able to get Midi channels 1 (and 2 in Performance) to receive notes. In Patch mode, I could sent patch changes. In Performance mode, I could send performance patch changes (but not change the patches for Upper and Lower). That may be normal.

2) I made some progress via USB and Logic but I am still having issues. I finally got channels 1 AND 2 to respond to notes but changing the setting System-MIDI-Remote Kbd to ON. OMNI is back to OFF. This is all great, but now, none of the channels are receiving patch change requests now.

Let me know if you have any ideas.
Eroq
Posts: 7
Joined: 01:13, 6 March 2017

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Eroq »

Another update:

So OMNI MODE does not seem to make a difference in any case. However, it looks like the SYSTEM - MIDI - REMOTE KBD setting makes some difference. Here is what I've found.

REMOTE KBD = OFF
Patch Mode: Responds to ch1 notes and patch changes across all banks.
Perf Mode: Responds to ch1 notes and patch changes across all banks, but patch changes cause the System-8 to switch back to Patch mode.

REMOTE KBD = ON
Patch Mode: Responds to ch1 notes, but does not respond to patch changes.
Perf Mode: Responds to ch1 and ch2 notes, but does not respond to patch changes.

So now I am trying to figure out whether the following are even possible in a single setting.

Can the System-8 respond to ch1 note and patch change across all banks in Patch Mode, and also to ch1 and ch2 notes plus Performance Mode patch changes in Performance Mode? Furthermore, it would be nice if some command / patch change would allow the System-8 to switch between Patch and Performance.

Seems like I am wasting a lot of time on something that could and should be easily documented by Roland.
Eroq
Posts: 7
Joined: 01:13, 6 March 2017

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Eroq »

In case anyone is interested, I figured out the issues. As usual, it was human error.

I downloaded a MIDI utility app that lists all the MIDI events in real time and I found out that all patch changes were sending on channel one. On further examination, I found that my Logic Pro Environment setup was converting all MIDI events to channel 1. Once I changed and allowed all channels, it began working.
All-Channels.png
All-Channels.png (35.91 KiB) Viewed 3686 times
My final settings are:

Device ID = 20
Remote Kbd = OFF
Omni Mode = OFF
Patch Ch = 1
Perf Ch = 16
Upper Ch = 1
Lower Ch = 2
All RX / TX are ON

It's important that REMOTE KBD = OFF and OMNI MODE = OFF.

Finally, I've asked Roland this question on their support desk.

What difference is there between the SYSTEM-8 port and the SYSTEM-8 CTRL port that is created by the Roland driver? Are they just duplicate ports? I was successful in using only the SYSTEM-8 port and am not using the SYSTEM-8 CTRL port at all.

Hope this helps someone!
Manic
Posts: 183
Joined: 10:09, 18 January 2017

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Manic »

In the System-1 the CTRL is used to "plugout" a vst synth to the S1. I suppose thats the same for the System-8
Venn Diagram
Posts: 71
Joined: 16:59, 25 August 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Midi Ch 2 on System-8 in Logic / Mac

Post by Venn Diagram »

Left a wordy reply on the FB group - you seem to be over complicating a simple setup procedure IMHO.
Post Reply