RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Stage Pianos
Post Reply
HSFlik
Posts: 1
Joined: 03:02, 3 May 2017

RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Post by HSFlik »

I just got my RD-2000 today, and I've been toying with various ways to use a secondary controller simultaneously, for a dual keyboard setup, but using only the RD-2000's sound engine.

My ideal setup would be to set some zones (say 1-4) to be controlled by the RD-2000, while other zones (5-8) would be controlled by the Roland A-49 MIDI controller that I've connected. I've KIND OF pulled this off.

In toying with this, I've discovered so far that:
- Zones 1-8 correspond to MIDI channels 1-8. That is, if you have a controller hooked up via MIDI IN, if the controller transmitting on channel 1, zone 1 plays back. Transmitting on channel 2, zone 2 plays back. etc.
- The INT/EXT buttons that correspond to the zones only affect MIDI input from the RD-2000. That is, if you have a connected MIDI controller transmitting on channel 2, but Zone 2 is disabled, the sound will still be triggered.
- I have not tested exhaustively yet, but it appears that MIDI channels 9-16 are present and can be set independently. Channel 10 is of course, percussion. It does not seem possible to be able to save the tones assigned to MIDI channels 9-16, at least not yet. They might be some generic GM bank and not SuperNATURAL sounds, however. When inputting program numbers, the values seemed to correspond with a 0-based GM map.

If there is a way to actually save / write settings for channels/zones 9-16, that would be fantastic.
Ian90XS
Posts: 1
Joined: 14:24, 11 September 2017

Re: RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Post by Ian90XS »

Hi. I have not even bought my RD2000 yet (very very soon) - but your question is exactly the FIRST that came to me as well. Did you get any further than your first (possibly good enough) solution? What you want to do is totally understandable and in this day and age one might expect it would be pretty standard stuff. It all depends on your expectations though. IS any given keyboard a "good" midi controller as well as whatever its supposed to be mainly for? These are stage pianos primarily.... I have recently looked at Kawai MP11 and Yamaha models of course as possible purchases. But they offer even less in this respect for sure...

I presently have old old gear - I am old myself now! Back in the day gigging I used Cheetah 88 note midi controller circa 1989 with KorgM1R and added Korg01R and used an old Yamaha PF50 as an expansion keyboard exactly as you wish to use the RD. Yes TWO 88 note boards - various sounds from the two rack synths set over various ranges of notes on either or both of them. Load one performance number on the controller and the whole setup has all the sounds you want all ready to play for each song.... great...

After retiring the Cheetah I added a GEM Equinox88 pro and a Yamaha PF80. I still have all these units... Just. The Equinox sounds are rather jaded and the sequencer is - well lets just say the last firmware update was year 2000! Enough said. But do you know what? As a Midi master controller even today this machine has great power in this regard. The performance patch (combination (Korg speak) or Program(Roland speak)) allows SIXTEEN zones... Each of those has its own configurable midi in channel and midi in port (of 2) - AND each can output on any channel 1-16 or play an internal sound or BOTH) and be sent to either midi out port.... There are also extensive midi controller filters as well.... Now remember this was supposed to be a workstation not a controller - so at 17 years ago this was pretty cool I reckon.

So how come I see moans about how the Montage has shortcomings in these areas - or for that matter the RD2000? What's the Kronos like here? Surely full midi controller functions as per these old boards of mine should be pretty much standard fare these days - even if we only have say eight zones worth instead of 16? But not it would seem. Not all is progress then....

For my limited needs I expect that using the RD2000 as the primary keyboard with a secondary one plugged into midi in will be enough to put some workaround (like yours) together to do what I want - but for me the full featuring of the midi side is the right toolbox for these things and clearly there are loads of things just plain missing. Another is midi clock in I gather....

I am going to get rid of the Equinox (I think) and keep the PF80 as the secondary midi board. Play the RD2000 most of the time with a few extras allocated to the PF80 keys - as like as not in the way you describe - unless of course you have found any better ideas since your post. If not maybe Roland will improve some of these things with firmware updates as time goes on.

To go back to the start - I repeat that your question is/was essentially my first and I am surprised that full in/out midi powers are not granted as a matter of course to any keyboard these days that costs more than a grand. Don't reinvent these wheels - just use the same ones!
Damo76
Posts: 1
Joined: 13:43, 3 May 2018

Re: RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Post by Damo76 »

Was looking for this info myself..thanks.

Anyone know where i can sent a product feature request. It would be great to have a setting where the usb/midi creates 2 ports instead of 1, and the midi IN could be routed direct to this second port so any computer connected will see both the RD-2000 and a connected controller as 2 separate midi ports.

I have a keystation pro 88 which does this but i have not found any other keyboard with this feature, which is very handy.

imo
DesertBoat
Posts: 362
Joined: 01:49, 5 October 2017

Re: RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Post by DesertBoat »

The RD-2000 is designed as a stage piano and master keyboard, and has a robust set of controls designed around this, not to mention killer piano sounds. It is not designed as a sound module, but works acceptably well, with some limitations in this role. (Might I point you to a Integra 7 for this, which includes Supernatural sounds and the complete SRX packages, & c.).

I have, and recommend, keeping the diagram on P13 of the manual posted on your music stand. This shows only four internal zones have full effects. Internal zones 5-8 get limited effects processing (delay / reverb only). Only zones 1-8 have parameters stored in programs / scenes.

A note at the bottom of this states: “Effects cannot be applied to zones 5–8.
 If zones 5–8 are also assigned as internal zones, and if an extremely large amount of data is being produced by the controllers, a substantial burden is placed on the RD-2000, possibly making it unable to process the performance data from the keyboard.”

Starting on p18 of the parameter guide is the information on master keyboard. The RD-2000 has three separate MIDI out routes, and each of the eight zones can be assigned to any or all of the outputs, stored with the program / scene. You can also select whether data received on the MIDI In is passed through on the USB to the computer. For more complicated routings, you will need an external MIDI switching box.

As a sound module, the RD-2000 has some limitations. It appears that Midi CH 1 in is fixed to zone 1, etc. (Implied on p27 of the parameter guide). You can select tones for zones 1-8 from the panel, or with stored program / scenes. There is no panel access to zones 9-16, other than to select whether they respond to external midi messages. You should be able to use program change messages from the external keyboard to select desired tones on zones 9 - 16. But if you fill up 16 zones with notes, you will probably be pushing the processor limitations, as discussed above. And zone 9 and above you have zero effects processing.

I have actually been on this same journey, spending months contemplating a second controller to enable more complex performance. But I have been pleasantly surprised with the split capabilities and full 88 keys, with some transposing to keep the parts separate.
paulmapp8306
Posts: 72
Joined: 09:41, 13 October 2013

Re: RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Post by paulmapp8306 »

I use an FA07 in a dual keyboard mode.

I use 6 of the RDs zones for internal sounds - Pianos, EPs, Clavs, Mallets and some strings and some pads (if I dont need deep editing and am happy with the stock tones plus cutoff/res changes). I use the other 2 zones for organ tones controlled by the FA07. I use the FA07 engine for synth and orchestral stuff along with other strings and pads. I CAN and DO at times use the RD to control the FA as well. For instance layering. I can use the RDs piano and the FAs pad, or SN-A strings (that the RD doesnt have)- set the FAs pad to any Chanel 2 through 7, and use the RDs external zone to control it.

Its actually great, as the RD can then play 2 tones per zone - one internal and one external. While it cant do both simultaneously, it does mean you can have say an RD string patch on zone 8 (PCM based) and an FAs string zone on track 8 (SN-Abased). That gives 2 flavours of strings to blend with the piano tone - just select internal or external on the RD to change.

Its really a nice and flexible set-up. I can use RD, or FA tones (PCM or SN tones) and play all on either a weighted or semi weighted board. Given the pair cost me less than a Kronos 88 Im more than happy. Sure the Kronos is more powerful (especially in FX and Arps in the Karma format) but theres not a lot I cant do on the combo that Id need, and I have both types of action and a lot more keys (88 weighted plus 76 semi) to assign zones to.

I had considered an Integra - but the FA07 was the same price (give or take a few quid). While the FA doesnt have all the SN sounds the Integra has - nor some of the more complex FX/editing - it does have a sequencer and programmable arpegiator the Integra doesnt have - and I got 76 semi weighted keys as well. The trade off was better for me on the FA.
Dsteven73
Posts: 2
Joined: 16:36, 31 December 2021

Re: RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Post by Dsteven73 »

Like others here, I want to use a secondary controller with midi in into the RD2000. That way I can have the B-3 sound on a different keyboard. I also want to use the secondary controller (M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61) to control the drawbars, Percussion, swell pedal, etc. I have not figured out how to configure the midi settings in the RD2000 and my the controller to make this happen. Does anyone have specific instructions on how to do this. The RD2000 and M-Audio documentation doesn't address issue very well. I haven't seen a Youtube video yet that helps. Help!
Dsteven73
Posts: 2
Joined: 16:36, 31 December 2021

Re: RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Post by Dsteven73 »

Like others here, I want to use a secondary controller with midi in into the RD2000. That way I can have the B-3 sound on a different keyboard. I also want to use the secondary controller (M-Audio Oxygen Pro 61) to control the drawbars, Percussion, swell pedal, etc. I have not figured out how to configure the midi settings in the RD2000 and my the controller to make this happen. Does anyone have specific instructions on how to do this. The RD2000 and M-Audio documentation doesn't address issue very well. I haven't seen a Youtube video yet that helps. Help!
DesertBoat
Posts: 362
Joined: 01:49, 5 October 2017

Re: RD-2000 w/secondary controller (MIDI IN) & Zones

Post by DesertBoat »

The RD2000 receives on fixed channels per zone, so zone 1 is channel 1, 2=2, etc. So you can go up to zone 16.

But, the TW organ really needs a rotary speaker, so maybe use zone 4. All you need to do is bring up the TW organ in zone 4, set the external controller to midi channel 4, and it should work. You can send the drawbard CCs on channel 4, etc.
Post Reply