Cloud Support Longevity

Forum to discuss all aspects of Roland's Cloud
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Calvin7s
Posts: 29
Joined: 07:29, 21 July 2014

Cloud Support Longevity

Post by Calvin7s »

I'm about to give the Roland Cloud free trial a try. But I do have one nagging question and wondered if this sentiment is shared by other potential customers.

What are the odds that the Roland Cloud is still going 1, 2, 10 years from now? Obviously, if it doesn't sound good or it doesn't work well for actual DAW recording, then there is no reason to continue. But I'm seriously afraid that if I like it, I will start to get serious about it and really start creating my own presets only to have that work for naught when I lose access to the "synths". At least with my hardware synths, even if they lose USB-PC support, MIDI is always there until the day the synth hardware dies. That could be decades.

The idea that you will get a free synth every 12 months alleviates that somewhat, but will it still need internet access to verify the license? I've had cloud services in the past where the company fails or abandons something you still want access to and you just get error messages that the authentication server cannot be reached (because it is no longer there) and so you can't get the app or media you paid for to open any longer.

They really should pass a law that the cloud services become authentication free for all previous buyers if a company decides to abandon the service (or goes under). But I'm not expecting that any time soon.

Anybody else hesitating on the Roland Cloud simply because you don't trust it will be there even a year or two later?
Devnor
Posts: 696
Joined: 20:22, 27 September 2010

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by Devnor »

I'm not worried about it. Software has a finite life for a variety of reasons and I would speculate the vast majority of soft synths written 10 years are no longer useable or have been thru a series of paid upgrades bringing them current. I'm not sure why you'd assume Roland wouldn't follow that model.
iixorb
Posts: 138
Joined: 15:57, 1 December 2015

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by iixorb »

I share your same concerns in general with vsts. Some of mine work purely with the code supplied by the authors irrespective of how many times I install them (e.g due to system crashes or upgrades). Others require more rigorous authentication based on 'handshaking' and I worry that in say 10 years, this might not be possible. Spectrasonics in particular are especially rigorous and I've even had to re-authenticate twice after major updates from Microsoft appear to throw Omnisphere and Stylus off track.

Regarding the Roland Cloud service - I have been a member for a couple of months and am generally in it just to keep the (excellent and authentic) D-50 vst after 12 months. I am trying not to get too reliant on the other vsts in my music in case I cease membership after the D-50 is mine.

That said, I believe Roland are a trustworthy company with a long standing history in the music business and I doubt they'd leave us high and dry.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by Skijumptoes »

Yeah concerns me greatly, hope it does well, but we'll see. I think if anything will hurt the service it will be if we see quite substantial price rises come at a time where there's very little content being added.

I think if it does all fall apart there will be an option to buy those plugins that you like, if that were to happen, then you would hope that subscribers get a really decent offer to buy them too as it is a risk for users to 'buy' into this service when they ideally just wanted ownership.

Personally - I've unsubscribed now, as it just doesn't make sense for me to subscribe anymore - i run an old Mac Pro, on a previous OS revision that i will no longer update - so end of support will come sooner for me with something like the Cloud, as it was, i was having to bounce the plugins to audio, and then remove from the project to ensure that i could recall them in future should anyone request - and so it just didn't make sense.
Calvin7s
Posts: 29
Joined: 07:29, 21 July 2014

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by Calvin7s »

Didn't want to start a new thread, so this can serve as a slight detour.

What do you think is the better investment:
a. Cloud with instant access to classic Roland instruments (Jupiter, D-50, etc) and the idea that over time you will own a few of the best outright.

b. A new roland boutique each year (close to the cost of a 1 year cloud membership)

I can quantify some pros and cons on my own, but probably the #1 is just outright sound and programmability.

The Pros and Cons I can figure on my own:

Cloud:
Pros
1. Instant access to a huge library.
2. Try out classics to find the ones you truly like through actual use
3. VST ownership over time
4. No physical cables to run
Cons
1. Zero resell value if you get tired of some VSTs.
2. Sounds like high CPU resource usage
3. Roland could cut just end it one day
4. OS updates can temporarily (or permanently) create usage problems

Boutique
Pros
1. Relatively cheap
2. True ownership. Worst case, you can always connect with MIDI cables
3. Doesn't tax CPU as greatly
Cons
1. The cable snake mess and physical storage space
2. MIDI sync problems?
3. <guess> I see a lot of broken boutiques up for sell, so they are perhaps too fragile?
4. More worry you'll buy the JP-08 only to find out you should have bought the JX-3P first (personal preferences you only discover over repeated use)

Originals Instruments
Pros
1. It doesn't sound close. It sounds like the classic.
Cons
1. Cost (Purchase)
2. Not as computer friendly
3. Cost (Repair / Upkeep)

But the big question for me is as I mentioned earlier. Sound quality and programmability. Any discussion on that by users that have had both the boutique and cloud (and maybe even the classic itself) would be most helpful.
Skijumptoes
Posts: 681
Joined: 11:08, 21 June 2010

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by Skijumptoes »

Personally, i've always been a hardware guy, I think VST/AU Plugins are always going to perceived 'easier' to program, and yes they can come with thousands of patches, so is a preset haven. You can recall your patch setups within DAW projects, and you don't need to bounce to audio either - so there's lots of positives there.

However, on a personal basis, you need to ask yourself if that's what you want/need/enjoy. I come up with far better stuff on hardware than i do a plugin, i enjoy the feel of hardware and being able to patch it through different effects racks in front of me, and 9 times out of 10 know the sound i want and enjoy dialling it myself, i don't enjoy doing the same on a plugin with a mouse, it just feels sterile and over-deliberate and leads less to happy accidents.

Some people, of course, prefer to scroll through presets and just tweak the odd cutoff/res controls and get a track down quick, so it's not for everyone to get lost in sound.

I also enjoy buying/selling old gear, you can spend a whole year trading with people and it really doesn't cost a great deal at all once you have stuff of value yourself, particularly if you watch the market and buy at the right prices, i particularly like fixing up old equipment too, most of it is stupid easy to fix.

So if we're talking classic instruments vs Roland cloud, then really you have to consider the whole scope here, i.e. we're talking Yamahas (DX7's etc), minimoogs, Novations, Korgs etc. so many options out there outside of Roland, It's such a wider pallette is another big pro for hardware. I'm a big fan of older samplers too (Akai/Emu's etc). It's probably just nostalgic romance, but i love hardware.

For me, if you have space, hardware would always be my number one choice - it's consistent and generally works with whatever software/daw/computer you use. If you're on the move with a laptop or don't have room, then i guess that's where boutiques vs vst/au's becomes a valid comparison - in that scenario i would go with a decent midi controller with plenty of CC assigns and vst/au's to give me a wider scope as possible in small space.

In terms of sound quality, it's so subjective that no-one can answer that. For example, i've got some horrible, super cheap racks, and if you read reviews of them they get slated, i.e. compressors/romplers/multifx etc.

But if you're not aiming for that vintage sound that MUST be of the original, or it MUST be super clean, then anything that has character and can live in conjunction with other gear/software that you own is only ever a good thing in my experience.

For example, I put clean sounding modern synths (Like my Roland FA) through some of these cheap racks to 'dirty' them up, sure there's digital effects that allow you to dirty a sound, but when comparing digital effects to analog outboard gear these horrible rack units just seem to do it in a way that warms and vintages the sound that i've not found in plugins.

So, that's why 'quality' is so subjective to your needs and can't be globally answered.

For me also, the big factor with Hardware vs Plugins is that i use a monitor all day for work, i then use an iPad when i get home, and a phone in-between that, may watch some tv, or play some games... and it's just constant use of screens argh! So. when i want to play music/songwrite, i like it to differ the environment and have a creative space - i don't have to touch a computer, or look at a monitor if i don't want to, for me that's really important.

A big negative for hardware that you've not touched on in your post however, is that you have to bounce everything down to audio and develop a workflow for midi control, have mixer/inputs for each hardware you use and have a method of recalling patches. This is the biggest surprise for users who go from plugins to hardware.

If you're seriously contemplating investing in software or hardware, then i think you should know already if you have a lust for gear, and, if you have the space to put it - it's probably pointless fighting the urge, just dive in and enjoy. The reason i say that is right now you can pick up classics like the DX7, D50, M1's so cheap, and the likes of Juno's/Jupiters etc.will only spiral up in value - they're getting expensive now, so just imagine their worth in 5-10 years.
jerry_merry
Posts: 90
Joined: 16:31, 8 March 2016

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by jerry_merry »

I wonder if the lack of plugouts may be associated to the Cloud getting royally hacked. The D-50 was last decent offering from the cloud (yes I know its not a plugout - but a significant development). At the same time they got hacked wide open and all plugins are now free on the internet (if you use a PC). Since then we have had nothing but poor Flavr releases.

No roadmap, no real announcements (just facebook rumourware) no sign of progress or plugouts - Perhaps being hacked wide open so easily has burnt the developers fingers from releasing more of their holy grails for some sneak thief to come along and help themselves.
Manic
Posts: 183
Joined: 10:09, 18 January 2017

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by Manic »

Yes I was also thinking in that direction.. maybe they are working on a better security system first, before they are releasing any more of the legendary stuff..
Calvin7s
Posts: 29
Joined: 07:29, 21 July 2014

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by Calvin7s »

Sad to hear Roland Cloud was hacked. I'd only be for that if Roland Cloud closed up. But I'd rather have Roland Cloud thrive so they have a reason to continue putting out actual classic instruments.
zombietactics
Posts: 251
Joined: 21:51, 12 July 2016

Re: Cloud Support Longevity

Post by zombietactics »

I've been looking at this carefully since before release. They have yet to make a compelling value proposition, compared to what is available in the rest of the marketplace.

The service outages and security issues only make the value proposition worse.
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