FRAUD: DON'T BUY EXPANSIONS IN ROLAND CLOUD!!

[anotherscott2022]

You only own the synth as it is out of the box.
Whatever you buy into RCM and install on ZEN-Core hardware afterwards you don't own and can't legally resale/transfer.

Just like your regular iPhone/iPad or Android device, eh?

Sorry, but what you are saying about iPhone is bollocks. Any other software I ever bought or licensed was transferable with not a single exception

My iPhone and (especially) iPad has a ton of MIDI apps on it. If I sell my iPad, and don't wipe it first (but, say, merely delete personal data and change my passwords so the new user cannot access my accounts), I suppose that user could keep using my apps. (Leaving aside the legal aspect.) And that would be true (and actually, less complicated) if you were to sell your Roland with the expansions you loaded into it as well. But in either case, you're not transferring the license, and the new user's access to those things on an on-going basis is not assured. So I agree with Foksadure's analogy, it's similar to your iPhone/iPad/Android... you can sell the hardware, but you can't transfer the licenses for your downloaded apps to the new user. (You even list ikmultimedia as an example, but while they have a transfer policy for PC/Mac, there is no transfer policy for the iOS version.)

But to get back to this particular situation, you're talking about buying the expansions for Roland hardware. But looking at the bigger picture, it's true, If you buy a Lifetime Key for an expansion in Roland Cloud even to use it on your computer (i.e. Zenology), it is still not transferrable to another user, even by paying a fee, and there are many companies who do permit such transfers. Though as Lazerlike42 said in his April 3 comment, there are also lots of VST manufacturers who do not support transfers, Roland is far from unique here.

As for the hardware aspect, though, I'm not sure how Roland compares with other brands. Korg had lots of paid expansions for Kronos... I don't know whether or not they were transferrable if you sold the Kronos (such that the new owner could re-download them if need be, or buy new expansions and have them added to the existing ones). Maybe someone else here knows?

[Djehuti]

Korg had lots of paid expansions for Kronos... I don't know whether or not they were transferrable if you sold the Kronos (such that the new owner could re-download them if need be, or buy new expansions and have them added to the existing ones). Maybe someone else here knows?

I sold my Kronos, and I transferred the libraries to the buyer by dropping an email to Korg and asking them to do so.

[natbuk]

Hmm - certainly puts me off buying any new software 'upgrades' - I can't see why this silly term is in place. Roland should allow transfer of things like models purchased and installed on a synth (thinking here like n-zyme model for Fantom - which I probably won't buy now as seems I wouldn't be able to transfer it if I sold fantom)

[Alathea_Squared]

Why care if it transfers? You are selling it.

It costs money, therefore it's not and should not be transferable to a new user- they didn't buy it, 2. When I buy used hardware I expect it to be blanked out/reset anyway. I have no idea what the seller did with it at the time. I've worked in Software dev. While people buy and sell computers with licensed software on them all the time it's still against the user policies of most software developers. The software has almost never been an 'item', it's been a license to use said item, and this goes back to the 80s when I was a kid and computers were barely a thing.

The firmware is transferable and doesn't change when you factory reset the system. Roland Cloud is transferrable, though only in a sense because it's free anyway. NI requires licensing and transfer of licenses to go through them and that's only so you can sell gear and transfer the basic ownership license to the hardware. With Arturia if you transfer your license you lose all the software that is registered, too- it all transfers according to Arturia https://support.arturia.com/hc/en-us/ar ... t-license-).

I don't pay extra for software stuff, or 'upgrades' when I buy things on the internet. If I sell a used instrument it's not like I can recoup the 'upgrades' I may have made to it, unless they are really specific. But things like 'locking tuners', different pickups, etc- that's all stuff the new buy potentially is going to rip out anyway in favor of their own preferred upgrades. I've had more people ask if I can reduce the price a little because they want the instrument and not the extra work to remove/change whatever I did to it.

[Wilkopiano]

A fantom 0 series model expansion, whilst expensive per model is actually a flat file less than 300K if you keep a copy of the file(s) on a usb stick, factory reset the fantom 0, then reload the files back on via usb stick, before selling it thats how to physically transfer. Then just turn a blind eye to the legalities, you wouldn’t use them again anyway unless you buy another fantom 0. Basically the fantom 0 is not internet aware or connected so is not able to magically deactivate. So you can provide the model expansions to the new owner and forget the paperwork. This thread should not discourage you from buying them as they are good particularly jupiter 8 and Sh-101, if not a little overpriced.

You actually get these free if you buy a fantom 6,7,8 but that is a much more expensive 16channel synth.

[xp30]

A fantom 0 series model expansion, whilst expensive per model is actually a flat file less than 300K if you keep a copy of the file(s) on a usb stick, factory reset the fantom 0, then reload the files back on via usb stick, before selling it thats how to physically transfer.

It is not so simple. The files from Roland Cloud are (cryptographically) attributed with your Roland Cloud account. When installing them on the Fantom-0, it checks whether all installed expansions and sound packs are for the same account. If not, you get an error message about "licenses".

That means if you sell the Fantom-0 as described above, then the buyer can reinstall all your expansions after a factory reset. However, they would not be able to install anything that they have downloaded for free or paid from the the Roland Cloud with their account, in parallel to the content from on the USB stick.

If you only used the Roland Cloud account for the Fantom-0, and the Roland Cloud account does not contain any personal information (e.g. email address with your name), then you could just give them your account (which as I understand is not allowed according to the terms of service).