Important OS Questions NEVER addressed!

[JOHN G]

why don't all the various retail merchants for these keyboards list the OS version that is currently being shipped when you order? Shouldn't that be right on the box, or in their bills from the manufacturers.....

shouldn't the buyer ( us) have the right to know which version we are getting and whether we are going to have to be faced with immediately updating the machine, especially in light of the various posts on here concerning problems people have had when they jump from one version to the latest without first adding some of the ones in between??

On Ebay: NONE of the sellers EVER list the OS of the keyboard they are selling...WHY? To the most likely person to buy one of these professional styled keyboards, this is very important information....I wouldn't dream of listing something on Ebay without highlighting this....

Any time I have an interest in one on Ebay, I always first write to the seller asking this: 50% of them don't even know what it is, and the other 50% are annoyed that you would ask this, because now, they actually have to turn the damn thing on and check....Excuse me for requesting vital information BEFORE shelling out 1000's of dollars!

Are people, manufacturers, just assuming we are too stupid to care, or even worse, are they afraid to admit they are selling something that is already incomplete, possibly deterring the sale?

This is a big issue with me.....and please, nobody with the old " Oh, it is so easy to update them"...don't insult my intelligence: these keyboard forums are replete with people having serious problems when doing updates.....may seem "simple" but as my late and wise Mom used to say " there is many a slip between the cup and the lip"...lol

[FGM]

I understand you, but still haven't seen much issues, all far from serious, with Fantom when upgrading or going back...
Yesterday a member called in for help on a locked Fantom ( http://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=60647 ) that then was rolled back to 2.0 and finally 2.5 was installed flawlessly...

Anyway, I have all the updates and can easily be put at your disposal should you need any to suit your needs.

Also, I think perhaps the serial number could give you a clue about what OS is most probably installed...

[mostinif]

Hi John:

Yes, I totally agree. This is the evil of the 21st century. We can extend the list up to infinitum: Cell Phones, cars nav aids, home theaters, "smart speakers", mixers, home appliances, smart tv, etc. etc.

Today, software industry follows an "Agile development" paradigm... short develpment cycles on continuous integration, releasing applications upgrades each two to eight weeks, against the old school (Waterfall method).

For software vendors, agile software development method, allows a fast react to enhacement and bug fixes, BUT throws the towel to the end user.

Developers thinks that end users are Stanford graduates or works at Google, IBM, etc.
And the upgrade procedures (leaving appart PC/notebooks and mobile phones) ALWAYS is a critical process: the failure ratio is high.

I'm a experienced IT person with more than 35 years working at IT in a large corporation, dealing with big iron top hardware and software vendors. The amount of issues we deal with software upgrades is huge. Even being the most meticulous and conservative users, we got issues. With anything running updateable software.

For millenials, they see this way as a "natural risk". Because they don't experienced another behavior. For those who has more than 40, 50 years... this situation is an extreme sport: too much adrenaline (because "the new features") but the probability to sucess rises our blood pressure.

Sincerelly I don´t see a good solution for this in a near future.
Best regards,
Flavio Mostini

[JOHN G]

thank you , Flavio!!! it was so good and refreshing to hear another person put into succinct words, much better than I did, the problem I was pointing out.....

Yes, I am sure there were many millenials that sneered at my post, and that is a fundamental difference between me and them.

I am 70 years old, and I am better at my craft ( keyboards ), than I ever have been in my entire life....I don't know at what age, we don't get better, but I continue to hone my art, and my art is what I want to spend 99.9 percent of my time on, NOT on frustrating updating and upgrading data procedures on these keyboards.

but, we live in a keyboard world with programmed drum patterns, and automatic chord formations, arranger keyboards, etc. , and someone like me who does everything from scratch is probably greater in the minority......thank you!!!

[Devnor]

First world problems.

[JOHN G]

and which "world" do YOU belong to??

[spottingjonah]

The more I go along this Fantom update ride, the more it wreaks of a carefully created marketing plan to accomplish two things - 1) give the impression of creating more value for existing customers. 2) undo their horrible reputation of abandoning update plans after a few meager attempts with past hardware.

Aside from a few bugs, flaws, and workflow quirks addressed, there haven't been any added features that they likely had ready to go from day one of the Fantom launch. The organ has been around since the 90s, and this recent version is obviously from the JP80. The model expansions were ready to go day 1 as it has been revealed how the models even work (A simple overlay to the Zencore engine with characteristic limitations to imitate the model in question). (The JD800 could be released immediately, but they choose to string us along). The user samples, SuperNatural, sdz soundbanks... everything could have (and should have) been included day 1, but Roland chose a plan that artificially gives a very specific impression using a lame gimmick. Come on... that sequencer has major limitations that were designed to be limiting (so that the eventual update will feel like something meaningful and special).

Of course, no one can enjoy a synth this complex in it's entirety right away, so perhaps this spoon feeding method forces Fantom owners to incrementally learn it ("OK kids, today we're going to learn about the organ that we've always had ready to go, but you weren't ready for it yet). Updates 1.10, 1.50, 1.60, 2.00, 2.10, and 2.50 were likely part of a long term plan hatched during the marketing meetings with the product management team.

I hate to sound so cynical, but I see a few more obvious forthcoming updates (more features that should have been there from the beginning) before we finally start getting real, useful, thoughtful updates based on user feedback, if any at that point (I'm not holding my breath).

[FGM]

Don't see much need to update the keyboard now and then.

Apart from any technical reason, I mean, such as avoiding those freezings or better key detection...

I met it and was great from the very beginning.

16 zones/64 voices, 4 partials, lots of effects, arpeggios, make yourself any sound you want...

I stop it there since those five things are surely more than enough to play outstanding music repertoires and deplete your very soul on the keyboard.

And there are many ways to circumnavigate the glitches met as one works... Intelligence just measures the speed our brains adapt to a new environment...

I see it funny a person on the sunny side of his eighties doesn't consider it a marvelous keyboard, a miracle of technology. Any other better keyboard out there to buy right now ? 88 keys, please.

[JOHN G]

lol, thank God I am still on the sunny side.....point is: I already have an FA-08 and an Integra, so I am not impressed when they come out with updates that "allow " you to put in SN sounds ( I have ALL of them ).....for me to go with yet another piece of Roland hardware, I am looking for something WAY more, and certainly not a sequencer that is even more limiting than the one I already have in the FA.......

[FGM]

I barely use SN sounds.

I mostly prefer ZenCore and just regret those tones only have four partials; eight would have been great, as Montage have, thereby allowing deeply personalized tones, but since there are 16 zones (internal, add another 16 via external voicing for a total of 32) and lots of scenes, the fun still overcomes the imagined possibilities, a never ending story: a friend of mine not buying that car because the sun roof took 45 seconds to open...

[FGM]

For self learners...

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