When is Roland going to fix the Aftertouch on the FANTOM 8 instead of releasing updates to nickel and dime us with?

[BillySynth]

I love my Fantom 8 in terms of superior hardware not to mention all the software capabilities. The key bed is second to none. I use a Roland RPU 3 Pedal board. It has 3 x pedals and the middle peddle covers all the pressure sensitivity you want...in a way I'm glad the aftertouch doesn't work, I feel like, that, if I keep pressing hard on the keys it will degrade the mechanics of the keys over time. I prefer to use the pedal for sweeps etc. I have 2 x RPU-3's. The right pedal is set to sustain, you can program the other 2 to your desire.

Vas.

[FGM]

I have 2 x RPU-3's. The right pedal is set to sustain, you can program the other 2 to your desire.

Vas.

Two RPU-3...?
How are you connecting them ?
Or you mean one as a spare just in case?

I have a RPU-3 and a DP-10...

[BillySynth]

hello, yes, it's a spare...just in case.
Vas

[Synth Robot]

I love my Fantom 8 in terms of superior hardware not to mention all the software capabilities. The key bed is second to none. I use a Roland RPU 3 Pedal board. It has 3 x pedals and the middle peddle covers all the pressure sensitivity you want...in a way I'm glad the aftertouch doesn't work, I feel like, that, if I keep pressing hard on the keys it will degrade the mechanics of the keys over time. I prefer to use the pedal for sweeps etc. I have 2 x RPU-3's. The right pedal is set to sustain, you can program the other 2 to your desire.

This misses the point completely, you can access the aftertouch MIDI CC Parameter with anything including twiddling a knob or pushing a button if you like even with any external MIDI controller. The point is the keyboard aftertouch function does not access the aftertouch MIDI CC parameter. So after you have played a note / chord you cannot press the keyboard and further modulate the sound using your hands. It is like saying that I don't care that the pitch bender works as I can vary the pitch bend MIDI CC with a knob or a foot pedal.

Or using a different example that the Radio / Media Player (or air conditioner) in some model car which we all purchased cannot be accessed or does not work properly in the car, but you can just connect a Blutooth device say, and play music that way; or I don't use the air conditioner anyway so who cares. I would if that what was advertised and what was paid for. Like I do as I chose the Fantom and paid a premium for AFTERTOUCH. What is important is those of use who want to use aftertouch as it is a 'MAIN' feature which now differentiates the Fantom 6,7,8 from the much cheaper Fantom 06, 07, 08. OR like a car purchased which is advertised and sold as having a reasonable expectation of having a functioning Sound System; NOT one that is 0 or Maximum Volume, or a functioning Air Conditioning System NOT one that is either OFF or ON Full Blast; and to go even further music or Air Conditioning that is NOT Flat out only if you PRESS the ON button HARD!

[mlohmeyer]

Just a followup - I received my Fantom 8 last week. Based on comments, I didn't have high expectations for aftertouch. But it was even worse than I expected.

It is completely useless. It requires so much force to use it that there is a real possibility of causing injury, and when actuated, it is like a light switch. There is no expression capability at all.

Again, I didn't buy the Fantom 8 for the aftertouch. I bought it for the PHA50 piano keyboard to have a piano like synth (and digital piano). I just hoped aftertouch would be marginally useful for certain rare purposes. I'm pretty unhappy to see that it is completely useless.

Roland has significantly soured my opinion of their brand. As I said, I didn't buy the Fantom for aftertouch so I plan to keep the Fantom 8 for all of its other benefits. I am very happy with it otherwise. My anger is because I am tired of being lied to (in general about so many things in life). Roland continues to advertise this feature even though it doesn't work, and none of the review articles or videos I saw explained just how bad aftertouch is. I expect better from a company like Roland, and the reviewers.



On a side note, the middle B, C, D, and E keys are stiff. They stick momentarily (require 2x the weight vs. other keys) at the top of travel and one key doesn't always return to the top. It is subtle, but really messes up playing due to the inconsistent force required. I have seen other reports about such issues over the years on Roland piano action keyboards (and perhaps other brands too).

I told Sweetwater and they immediately shipped a replacement and sent me a return label for the first one. They also said they have not had any other reports of this issue in recent memory. Anyway, I will get another chance to compare aftertouch, but I assume the new one won't be any different. The stiff keys have nothing to do with aftertouch of course. Just an FYI. I am very happy with the Fantom 8 in all other aspects, and glad I chose the piano action keyboard.

[mostinif]

Hi:

Roland's attitude towards an advertised functionality in a product of such a price is really disconcerting. After Touch on Fantom 8 - PHA50 keybed - is totally useless. It's a hardware flaw. Worst, is the media and evaluators silence. (as you properly say).

PHA50 it is a fantastic keyboard with a very good grand piano feeling. But putting side a side a Fantom G8 (PHA3) with new Fantom 8 (PHA50) hmmm.... seems Roland makes a step backward ( IMHO ).

Fixing AT on Fantom 8 is like a Ford o Toyota ( as example ) sends a customer's recall .... Could be possible?

BTW, your issue related to center keys, yes, a new unit will solve this problem, but I have my doubts that Roland solves AT.

Best regards,
Flavio

[TokyoScarab]

I know this doesn't excuse it not working, but as a Fantom 8 owner, I love my Fantom 8, but yeah, my aftertouch doesn't work properly either. For me it's really not that big of a problem because I personally find non-poly aftertouch to mostly just be kind of a gimmick. You can get expressive with it but it is INCREDIBLY situational where it doesn't just quite odd for all your notes to have the same modulation change. Poly-aftertouch seems like such a no-brainer at this point and should be industry standard in my opinion. Even if the aftertouch worked right in my Fantom 8, I doubt it would get much use, if at all.

[mlohmeyer]

I know this doesn't excuse it not working, but as a Fantom 8 owner, I love my Fantom 8, but yeah, my aftertouch doesn't work properly either. For me it's really not that big of a problem because I personally find non-poly aftertouch to mostly just be kind of a gimmick. You can get expressive with it but it is INCREDIBLY situational where it doesn't just quite odd for all your notes to have the same modulation change. Poly-aftertouch seems like such a no-brainer at this point and should be industry standard in my opinion. Even if the aftertouch worked right in my Fantom 8, I doubt it would get much use, if at all.

Yes, agreed, though I haven't seen it as a gimmick, just an option - like a mod wheel, expression pedal, breath controller, Expressive E Touche, etc. Most people are (rightly so) happy to use a mod wheel or expression pedal, and that is what I will do with the Fantom 8.

I have a Novation Summit (channel aftertouch) and a few other channel aftertouch synths. Depending on the patch, I use aftertouch a lot (especially on the Summit). I also have a Hydrasynth (poly aftertouch) and I use poly AT on almost all patches for it - this is where AT starts to really make a difference. Using the the Hydrasynth Poly AT on the Summit is also very nice.

So yes, poly AT is really where it is at. But I am probably more into that kind of thing than most people. The moment I saw the Expressive E Osmose, I knew it was what I was looking for. I have Roli stuff, but not as happy with it as having something that feels more like a real keyboard is important. Sadly the Osmose still hasn't shipped due to world insanity, but the ships and factories are starting to move again. I have reason to hope it will arrive this summer.

Even if the Fantom 8's AT worked, I never expected it to be better than what I have on my other synths. Again, just tired of being lied to. Love the PHA50 keyboard though.

I saw in the comments on this video about Fantom 7 AT (https://youtu.be/DcudIeIpE18) that someone added a 1mm spacer underneath the AT strip to move it closer to the keys and it made AT work much better. I may investigate that one day after my warranty has expired. But for the PHA50 keyboard, I don't want to do anything that might compromise the piano feel. We'll see.

[TokyoScarab]

I honestly think the aftertouch problem on the Fantom 8 may be a hardware issue and it is entirely possible it can't be fixed though software tweaking of the numbers to help define the sensitivity. I'm not sure what the remedy for that is on Roland's end.

[mlohmeyer]

I received my replacement Fantom 8 a couple days ago (for a non-aftertouch related keyboard issue). It gave me a chance to compare aftertouch on two different Fantom 8's.

On the first Fantom, aftertouch is there, but to use it requires pressing so hard that you cannot finesse it at all, and you might injure yourself pressing that hard on the keyboard, so you should not try. Also, it is practically like a light switch.

On the second Fantom, it is worse. I have to press so hard on the keyboard to make it actuate that I fear I might break a key. On some keys I couldn't get it to actuate (or I wasn't going to press any harder because I didn't want to damage my new Fantom). In this case, when it works, it is entirely on or off. No in between.

I tried the aftertouch sensitivity setting on both units (default is 100). No setting (big or small) made any significant difference.

So nothing new - aftertouch is completely useless on both Fantoms.

This is not an issue they can fix in firmware. It is a hardware design issue. I've seen several different ways aftertouch is implemented on keyboards and read many comments from people about shimming up the aftertouch sensor strip on their Fantom and getting it to work. It makes sense based on my experience with these two units - how they feel, or rather, fail to operate. I reach the keys mechanical limit of travel trying to actuate aftertouch, but to get aftertouch to work, I must press the key beyond its mechanical limit (especially on the new Fantom). So I am stressing the keys beyond their design limits in order to make it work. That is my assessment. I'm sure if I took it apart, this issue would be pretty obvious. Roland should have fixed this 3 years ago!

[Lazerlike42]

One thing I've noticed with my Fantom 8 is that the aftertouch seems to work far, far better with the supernatural tones. I don't know what is different about the way these are coded but I can more reliably activate the aftertouch and also I can more reliably control them over a range of levels. It's like night and day compared to any of the other tones.

[Synth Robot]

I received my replacement Fantom 8 a couple days ago (for a non-aftertouch related keyboard issue). It gave me a chance to compare aftertouch on two different Fantom 8's.

On the first Fantom, aftertouch is there, but to use it requires pressing so hard that you cannot finesse it at all, and you might injure yourself pressing that hard on the keyboard, so you should not try. Also, it is practically like a light switch.

On the second Fantom, it is worse. I have to press so hard on the keyboard to make it actuate that I fear I might break a key. On some keys I couldn't get it to actuate (or I wasn't going to press any harder because I didn't want to damage my new Fantom). In this case, when it works, it is entirely on or off. No in between.

I tried the aftertouch sensitivity setting on both units (default is 100). No setting (big or small) made any significant difference.

So nothing new - aftertouch is completely useless on both Fantoms.

Has anyone heard anything at all back from ROLAND on this issue, it seems more and more ridiculous as time goes by, that they are IGNORING THIS and the only answer I got was them pretending that using an expression pedal is a substitute for the after touch! And still pushing the 'party' line that the 'keyboard is the best Roland has ever made', see here:

https://rolandcorp.com.au/blog/fantom-t ... mate-guide

'FANTOM is the pinnacle of Roland synthesizer sound quality and design. It is built from metal and premium materials, and the all-new aftertouch-enabled keyboard is the best Roland has ever made.'

Is it my imagination or has Roland just moved on to the Fantom 08, and expects all of us to as well?

[Mergy]

I was looking at the new workstations and to my horror it's mentioned everywhere that Roland can't get basic aftertouch to work on the new fantom 8 but Yamaha can get polyphonic aftertouch to work for the same price on the new montage, is this true?

[Alazarin]

I have a similar problem with my earlier Fantom X8: absolutely leaden aftertouch. I'm pushing 70 and my knuckles really can't take the kind of abuse needed to get any response from the aftertouch on my Fantom X8. It's not as if Roland don't know how to do aftertouch properly. I have owned an XP-60, an XP-80 and a Fantom FA76 in the past and they all had very responsive aftertouch that was a pleasure to use.

Can also confirm that aftertouch on the Jupiter X is only an on/off switch. Will Roland do anything about it? Probably not. Will I jump ship and ditch my Roland synths? Unlikely as I have decades worth of patches I've created that I use for live work that would have to be replicated on another brand of synth. Also, I'm a big fan of their side-to-side pitchbend which, as a guitar player, I've always found to be more logical than the wheels.

I suppose I could buy a MIDI controller footpedal to control aftertouch as a workaround but Roland really need to fix the aftertouch issue. Either that or be honest in their advertising and say that none of their synths and keyboards have aftertouch because they just can't be bothered to implement it any longer.

[JCS]

I cannot agree to the obviously very common critizism about AFT in Fantom 8.

I chose simple Patch (Strings, pic 1), in System settings AFT settings (AFT sens and pressure range) are set as shown in pic 2, in System settings Control source 2 is assigned to AFT (pic 3), in Tone settings I assigned Control 2 to pitch with maximum sensitivity (pic 4).

When pressing a key AFT can be applied; despite kind of "harder pressure" needed compared to other synths it is nevertheless unproblematic to trigger AFT with one finger and to dose it. In this example AFT triggers pitch shift by exactely one octave, so the effect is clearly audible (see videos in my next post). It mightn´t be good AFT implementation, but it is far from "non-functional" or "useless", as described by many users here and in other forums. It is for sure useful.

Strangely, after switching on my F8, the range of AFT from sero to full AFT effect consists of exactly 9 steps (video 1 in next post). Once I change the AFT Pressure Range in any way, e.g. 10 to 9 and back to 10, see pic 2), then these described 9 steps disappear, and the result is a smooth AFT effect from sero to full, as video 2 (next post) shows smooth increase of pitch up to one octave.

The latter is a "more or less normal" AFT function on my F8. The pressure needed might be harder compared to other boards, maybe dosing should be easier, but it is kind of close to my old JV90, and: absolutely functional.