Fantom 6,7,8 v3.02

[Laurin]

Just updated my Fantom 8

The A/T pressure sensitivity certainly makes the A/T more controllable but very sadly I still have to apply huge pressure to get it to work.
I think the 76 and 61 might be better - so my A/T is still close to unusable in a live situation......

☹️

I have the 7 and updated it today - but the same result: It's a bit better but still need to much pressure, and not really good controllable.

It needs probably a hardware fix at the keybed / AT - construction.

[EdGe]

Just updated my Fantom 8

The A/T pressure sensitivity certainly makes the A/T more controllable but very sadly I still have to apply huge pressure to get it to work.
I think the 76 and 61 might be better - so my A/T is still close to unusable in a live situation......

☹️

I have the 7 and updated it today - but the same result: It's a bit better but still need to much pressure, and not really good controllable.

It needs probably a hardware fix at the keybed / AT - construction.

Yes...better, a little more controllable, but still, too much pressure needed.

Compared to my old Yamaha AN1X...I can barely keep from triggering AT on a keyboard, with a 'not premium' keybed from 1997, on the AN1X. And the cheap Behringer Motor61...

Yes...this is a mechanical issue: poorly engineered.

[octavian7000]

at Fantom 6 presure it s ok .it is about the sensitivity of the tensiometric tape and the pressing surface of the keyboard. I did an experiment, I pressed with visa card and it works better

. at Jupiter 80 A/T is much more successful.

[anotherscott2022]

Jupiter 80 A/T is much more successful.

but IIRC, you could hardly assign it to anything!

[muso7]

Has any of you owners had an engineer replace (fix) the aftertouch issue?

Just curious....

Thanks
Pete 😎

[xp30]

With the 3.02 update, the aftertouch on my Fantom-7 is not as good as on my XP-30, however, significantly better than it was initially. It is usable in some situations, however, not sensitive enough for other situations. Some observations:

• It works better on white keys than on black keys.
• It is easier to control with a single finger than with multiple fingers. If I play a chord, then it is easier to control aftertouch by putting pressure on only one finger instead of all fingers simultaneously.
• It works better in the middle key range, and not so well in the lowest and highest octaves. I wonder if it might have improved in the middle range over time due to usage.

[JCS]

About AFT issue, my experience with my Fantom 8 differs from many posts here as well as in other forums.

In System Settings Aftertouch Sens is set to 100. I can trigger AFT without extrem pressure, it's indeed a BIT hard (maybe too hard, but I don't know) but absolutely far from the feeling of braking fingers or keys or sth like that. The pressure I have to put is very similar to the one for my old JV90. I can use AFT with one finger.

Besides, it is definitively NOT an on/off situation. When in Tone Edit Menu in Matrix Control Sens of AFT is set to +64 (which is maximum value for maximum effect of the controlller), then (as I described some time ago in this thread) I can identify exactely 9 steps (or levels, or however to call it) between no pressure (= no AFT triggered) and maximum triggering pressure with the full AFT effect. A good way to identify these 9 steps is to set pitch as the target for AFT because then the full triggered effect means pitching a tone by exactely one octave, and then it's possible to hear and count the pitch-steps between sero AFT and full AFT effect when slightly increasing the pressure on the key.

This was the case all the time before FW 3.02. After updating to 3.02 and setting the new parameter in System Settings to 10 (whereas AFT sensitivity stays at 100) there is now a smooth transition from minimum to maximum AFT effect, as it is supposed to be I think.

So actually, AFT is working on my board. It might be a bit to hard, there might be better keyboards to use AFT and to dose it properly, but I don't know as I only have experience with F8 and JV90 but no other boards.

But, when my Fantom 8 is turned off and on again, then those parameters are of course constant (when saved in system settings before), but the effect is again like before FW 3.02 with these 9 steps from minimum to maximum AFT trigger. Then I have to go to the new parameter in System Settings, change it to anything, then back to value 10, then AFT is fine again. This phenomenon, that, after turning off and on the device, the new value stays but the effect gets lost until the new parameter is changed again, was also described by other users here.

Interestingly, half a year ago I send my Fantom 8 back to the seller because of an issue of two keys, and therefore the shop exchanged my keybed (it was just before the end of three year warranty, so they did it for free), but this did not change at all AFT behaviour, so what I described about AFT on my board (exactly 9 levels) was the case before exchange of keybed and after.

Somehow AFT on my F8 seems different and much better than many other users experience. Strange. Maybe I will post a video of triggering AFT on my F8 to show this one day.

[FGM]

With the 3.02 update, the aftertouch on my Fantom-7 is not as good as on my XP-30, however, significantly better than it was initially. It is usable in some situations, however, not sensitive enough for other situations. Some observations:

• It works better on white keys than on black keys.
• It is easier to control with a single finger than with multiple fingers. If I play a chord, then it is easier to control aftertouch by putting pressure on only one finger instead of all fingers simultaneously.
• It works better in the middle key range, and not so well in the lowest and highest octaves. I wonder if it might have improved in the middle range over time due to usage.

Remember Fantom offers CHANNEL aftertouch, not Polyphonic aftertouch.

This means that aftertouch will be applied to all keys being
held as soon as any single key triggers it.

New Montage M8x offers Polyphonic aftertouch, at key level.

I think this behavior should be another option for the player, via
software, similar to Velocity, Master tuning, etc.

I don't think I like neither Chord aftertouch nor Polyphonic aftertouch every time I might use it, although I prefer CHANNEL
after touch since it allows me to trigger with a single finger
all the chord I play, if keys held, or a single note if I release
the keys I don't want to sound.

Anyway, and knowing this, just use the finger with greater pressure capability at your fingering when aftertouch is wanted.


https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/chann ... explained/


😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

[anotherscott2022]

New Montage M8x offers Polyphonic aftertouch, at key level.

I think this behavior should be another option for the player

Keyboards that have poly AT also have an option for channel AT. But most AT board are channel AT only, they don't have the additional hardware that would be required for poly AT. (For channel AT, there is only one sensor, which can be triggered by any of the keys; for poly AT, each key needs its own sensor.)

[FGM]

New Montage M8x offers Polyphonic aftertouch, at key level.

I think this behavior should be another option for the player

Keyboards that have poly AT also have an option for channel AT. But most AT board are channel AT only, they don't have the additional hardware that would be required for poly AT. (For channel AT, there is only one sensor, which can be triggered by any of the keys; for poly AT, each key needs its own sensor.)

Does Yamaha Montage M8x offer that software option ?

User offered the option for channel or polyphonic?

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

[anotherscott2022]

Does Yamaha Montage M8x offer that software option ?

User offered the option for channel or polyphonic?

yes.

[FGM]

Does Yamaha Montage M8x offer that software option ?

User offered the option for channel or polyphonic?

yes.

Astounding !!!!

Thanks.

Found it...Pages 243, 244.

Screenshot_20231016_234219_Drive.jpg (33.4 KiB) Viewed 653 times

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

[osflaa]

About AFT issue, my experience with my Fantom 8 differs from many posts here as well as in other forums.

In System Settings Aftertouch Sens is set to 100. I can trigger AFT without extrem pressure, it's indeed a BIT hard (maybe too hard, but I don't know) but absolutely far from the feeling of braking fingers or keys or sth like that. The pressure I have to put is very similar to the one for my old JV90. I can use AFT with one finger.

Besides, it is definitively NOT an on/off situation. When in Tone Edit Menu in Matrix Control Sens of AFT is set to +64 (which is maximum value for maximum effect of the controlller), then (as I described some time ago in this thread) I can identify exactely 9 steps (or levels, or however to call it) between no pressure (= no AFT triggered) and maximum triggering pressure with the full AFT effect. A good way to identify these 9 steps is to set pitch as the target for AFT because then the full triggered effect means pitching a tone by exactely one octave, and then it's possible to hear and count the pitch-steps between sero AFT and full AFT effect when slightly increasing the pressure on the key.

This was the case all the time before FW 3.02. After updating to 3.02 and setting the new parameter in System Settings to 10 (whereas AFT sensitivity stays at 100) there is now a smooth transition from minimum to maximum AFT effect, as it is supposed to be I think.

So actually, AFT is working on my board. It might be a bit to hard, there might be better keyboards to use AFT and to dose it properly, but I don't know as I only have experience with F8 and JV90 but no other boards.

But, when my Fantom 8 is turned off and on again, then those parameters are of course constant (when saved in system settings before), but the effect is again like before FW 3.02 with these 9 steps from minimum to maximum AFT trigger. Then I have to go to the new parameter in System Settings, change it to anything, then back to value 10, then AFT is fine again. This phenomenon, that, after turning off and on the device, the new value stays but the effect gets lost until the new parameter is changed again, was also described by other users here.

Interestingly, half a year ago I send my Fantom 8 back to the seller because of an issue of two keys, and therefore the shop exchanged my keybed (it was just before the end of three year warranty, so they did it for free), but this did not change at all AFT behaviour, so what I described about AFT on my board (exactly 9 levels) was the case before exchange of keybed and after.

Somehow AFT on my F8 seems different and much better than many other users experience. Strange. Maybe I will post a video of triggering AFT on my F8 to show this one day.

This.

Also, the effect of aftertouch is an interaction between the modulation signal and the specific tone. If one uses a preset instead of making the tone from scratch, one should adjust how the aftertouch modulation affects the tone to one's personal preferences.

I can in no way claim that aftertouch does not work on my Fantom 6 after the 3.02 update. The aftertouch response varies a lot between different synth models. It is A BIT hard compared to most of the synths I have owned, but Novation Summit aftertouch in example requires more pressure. A too soft aftertouch is actually worse since one can apply aftertouch unintentionally.

[FGM]

About AFT issue, my experience with my Fantom 8 differs from many posts here as well as in other forums.

In System Settings Aftertouch Sens is set to 100. I can trigger AFT without extrem pressure, it's indeed a BIT hard (maybe too hard, but I don't know) but absolutely far from the feeling of braking fingers or keys or sth like that. The pressure I have to put is very similar to the one for my old JV90. I can use AFT with one finger.

Besides, it is definitively NOT an on/off situation. When in Tone Edit Menu in Matrix Control Sens of AFT is set to +64 (which is maximum value for maximum effect of the controlller), then (as I described some time ago in this thread) I can identify exactely 9 steps (or levels, or however to call it) between no pressure (= no AFT triggered) and maximum triggering pressure with the full AFT effect. A good way to identify these 9 steps is to set pitch as the target for AFT because then the full triggered effect means pitching a tone by exactely one octave, and then it's possible to hear and count the pitch-steps between sero AFT and full AFT effect when slightly increasing the pressure on the key.

This was the case all the time before FW 3.02. After updating to 3.02 and setting the new parameter in System Settings to 10 (whereas AFT sensitivity stays at 100) there is now a smooth transition from minimum to maximum AFT effect, as it is supposed to be I think.

So actually, AFT is working on my board. It might be a bit to hard, there might be better keyboards to use AFT and to dose it properly, but I don't know as I only have experience with F8 and JV90 but no other boards.

But, when my Fantom 8 is turned off and on again, then those parameters are of course constant (when saved in system settings before), but the effect is again like before FW 3.02 with these 9 steps from minimum to maximum AFT trigger. Then I have to go to the new parameter in System Settings, change it to anything, then back to value 10, then AFT is fine again. This phenomenon, that, after turning off and on the device, the new value stays but the effect gets lost until the new parameter is changed again, was also described by other users here.

Interestingly, half a year ago I send my Fantom 8 back to the seller because of an issue of two keys, and therefore the shop exchanged my keybed (it was just before the end of three year warranty, so they did it for free), but this did not change at all AFT behaviour, so what I described about AFT on my board (exactly 9 levels) was the case before exchange of keybed and after.

Somehow AFT on my F8 seems different and much better than many other users experience. Strange. Maybe I will post a video of triggering AFT on my F8 to show this one day.

This.

Also, the effect of aftertouch is an interaction between the modulation signal and the specific tone. If one uses a preset instead of making the tone from scratch, one should adjust how the aftertouch modulation affects the tone to one's personal preferences.

I can in no way claim that aftertouch does not work on my Fantom 6 after the 3.02 update. The aftertouch response varies a lot between different synth models. It is A BIT hard compared to most of the synths I have owned, but Novation Summit aftertouch in example requires more pressure. A too soft aftertouch is actually worse since one can apply aftertouch unintentionally.

I think perhaps it calls for a pause at the down position of the key.

I might be wrong, but triggering it just because one strikes hard seems awfully wrong, in my humble opinion.

So, for me, it is press, hold, re-press. I mean, it should be. I mean, i would like it to be that way.

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

[MaikyPii]

Respectfully, I think Roland has made some poor choices and their new CEO and marketing strategy has seemingly done Roland an injustice.

I really like the Fantom and is my go to keyboard now for sale going toward a Yamaha M8x. It took a competitors release of the M8x to provide a poor v3.02 update supposively fixing the aftertouch issue we waited 3- years for. -proves public opinion does not matter anymore.

Roland basically admitted a problem with their Fantom-8 hardware right when the incredible M8x is released in hopes of saving the platform. I don’t know what happened at Roland but I sense the Fantom will be discontinued soon as it won’t be able to keep up with this new competitors release.

It would have made sense for Roland to fix the various poor programming issues of the Fantom and offer something new after users have waited since 2019 for a fix to the aftertouch and two years hoping real features would have been added that are common to other synths.

I canceled RCM as it is malware, bulky, and does not cater to hardware buffs. They focus on media using words to build up a subpar synth. And resource heave cloud synth stuff you really never own.

This latest 3.02 update has solidified my parting with Roland.

I will sell all my licenses with the Fantom I purchased and invested so heavily in.

Thinks it’s time to move on.

RIP Roland… it was fun while it lasted.



Drop or turn your eyes away from RCM stuff. It’s leading to your downfall.

I see things totally different...Nowadays, many people tend to complain about everything and just put all their energy and focus on the stuff that´s wrong, bad or whatever instead of being happy about the things that actually are there. And I feel sorry for those people, because they don´t seem to be able to enjoy things that well anymore.

So, talking about the Fantom. Of course, there is some stuff that could definitely be better or taken care of. But I´d never ever sell this beautiful synth because the aftertouch is bad (what´s that all about that unnatural "key pressing" anyways, I use an expression pedal, which can easliy be assigned with AT functions) or the sounds are not well organized or the sampling options/speed is not as effective as it could be. I rather take a look at all the great things that the Fantom offers. I´ve been playing the keyboard for over 30 years now and to be honest, the Fantom is best one I´ve had so far and do still enjoy it everytime I turn it on. It has the best keybed by far, the whole instrument is so well built and feels high quality, the workflow is awesome, the zencore engine provides stunning sounds (and personally, I love it that there are new sounds available on RCM monthly), the input/output possibilites are perfect, the output makes any speakers shaking, combining different external VSTs with internal sounds and handling them with the Fantom easily is wonderful, modifying/creating new sounds with the model expansions and n-zyme is satisfying my sound engeneering better than ever and so on. There are so many good things about the Fantom to talk about and to enjoy. Nothing is perfect, but focussing on the 80% that are awesome is way more fun and satisfying than focussing on the 20% that could be better/are bad (almost like the pareto principle :)

I had the chance to visit the Thomann shop in Germany a few days ago and to compare many different keys and what can I say - it´s still the Fantom that fulfills my needs best. I always had kinda a crush on the AKAI Key 61 because of all the youtube videos etc comparing it with the Fantom etc, stating it´s well-built, the keybed feels good etc...NO, the Fantom is on a total different level, and it should be, of course, cause it´s double the price.

Well, to make a long story short: start enjoying your instrument that you own instead of constantly complaining/crying about the stuff that could be better etc. Every instrument is special and when it comes the Fantom, it´s one of the best musical instruments out there, in my opinion, but one need to put some time and effort to dive into all the great possibilites. Get to know your instruments by heart and have fun with the stuff it can do.