Fantom 6,7,8 v3.02

[SImon G]

Just reported this bug to Roland.

[neomad]

And people will say that Roland doesn’t listen to user feedback/comments. Well compared to Yamaha, Roland seems to be all ears.

How do you even reach Roland for feedback/comments? There seems to be no way to get requests to Roland. Yamaha 1-ups them there with ideascale.

When I think of my Fantom when lusting over the new Montage M, I begin to see how much better the Fantom already is

Fantom does still have lots of advantages... like all the different VA synth models, a dedicated 9-slider drawbar organ emulation, V-Piano, some of the SuperNATURAL behavior stuff, dedicated synth controls, analog filter, trigger pads, the drum-machine/arranger style rhythm pattern function, scene chain, specific mainstage/logic/ableton integration. But some of the advantages Fantom had over the Montage are gone... The M gives the Montage some of what had been Fantom advantages, like the ability to arbitrarily assign parts to receive on whatever MIDI channel you'd like, and having VA synth at all... and it looks like the Montage operational interface may no longer lag the Fantom's. That may be subjective, but if it does lag, certainly not by as much.

But also, Yamaha will retain previous advantages of its own, along with adding new ones... like having an FM engine, having what was 8 and is now 128 Elements per Part (compared to Fantom's 4 Partials per part), two insert effects per part (instead of Fantom's 1), more measures per pattern (256 bars vs. 64, IIRC), better navigation between pages of sounds (the Scene vs. Live Set pages), class compliant audio over USB (so that function works with iPads), better ability to move Parts (internal or external) from one Scene/Performance to another. It now has more sample memory too (for keyboard playable parts), and what seems like a lot more polyphony (more on that below). And the forthcoming free VST version looks really intrigiuing. I don't know that many Fantom owners would be tempted to switch, but I think Yamaha has at least made it a tougher choice for new buyers.

The polyphony in the Fantom-0 is a handled like a joke with notes cutting all the time. Same with Fantom, if you don't use the V-Piano engine... and with the Models reducing the polyphony drastically. This is something that Yamaha handles very well (don't remember having a soundcut ever)

Yeah, there is a difference in the way they handle this. Roland has dedicated polyphony for the V-Piano, but all other engines (straight sample-based, assorted VA, n/zyme, VTW, SuperNATURAL acoustic stuff) hits the same polyphony pool, similar to Kronos where all 9 engines had different polyphony specs, but whatever you used for one would lessen what was available for another. Yamaha is maintaining separate polyphony for the sample engine , the FM engine, and now the VA engine, so you can combine sounds from whatever engines, and the use of sounds from one won't impact the available polyphony for another. Yamaha's new separate polyphony for the user sample section is interesting, too... it would be as if any Fantom sounds you used from your user sample library didn't affect the polyphony of the rest of your sounds either.

I believe that you are user of Kurzweil PC4. Did you experience any cut in voices? (256 voices as well). Also, is there any function to use the pads as Group Switch (as FA/Fantom) or Scenes in Yamaha Montage/ModX? and how's the Medeli keybed?

[osflaa]

This sounds like it's a significant improvement for aftertouch, something that people have been wanting for quite some time now.

Yes, I slowly increased and then slowly decreased the pressure on the keys and recorded the modulation into the sequencer. This is definitely better than a on/off-modulation :-)

20231012_182511.jpg (3.76 MiB) Viewed 998 times

[anotherscott2022]

I believe that you are user of Kurzweil PC4. Did you experience any cut in voices? (256 voices as well). Also, is there any function to use the pads as Group Switch (as FA/Fantom) or Scenes in Yamaha Montage/ModX? and how's the Medeli keybed?

I've never experienced a cut in voices, but also, my usage of the board doesn't really task it.

Also, is there any function to use the pads as Group Switch (as FA/Fantom) or Scenes in Yamaha Montage/ModX?

Not as far as I know.

and how's the Medeli keybed?

For pianos, I'd easily rate its action above the Fantom-07 or MODX7, by far. For organ, I"d prefer those others, though the Medeli is okay. For synth work, I"d say they're all fine, but I'd take the Medeli because of the addition of aftertouch. The optional ribbon is cool, too.

[neomad]

Thanks anotherscott2022

Are you referring to PC4 or PC4-7?

Related to the scenes, I found a trick to do kinda: just turn off/on midi channels (example zone 1 assigned to midi ch1, zone 2 to midi ch2, and so on) https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/17 ... 4/page/12/

Programming the pads may help.

I tried the PC4 a few weeks ago and the sound was just amazing... even beyond my Montage... could not believe my ears... but, I did not like the Medeli 88 keys keybed a lot... and the scenes/group switch is a key thing for me. (the Fantom-0 can do that easily, but no librarian and polyphony cuts are not something I want to deal with). Actually sold my Nord Stage 3 a few weeks back (great board but very limited), and don't want to move my Montage 7 because of the weight, so looking for options. Modx+7 and PC4-7 (or PC4) are my favourite by now, but keybed are not great. Need to have scenes and more than 5 octaves, staying low weight. Not an easy call (will try Nautilus 73... but not enough controls, very long boot time (in case of electrical glitch on the stage) but I was planning to add a Mixface Studiologic to cope with the lack of faders)...

Keep searching

[anotherscott2022]

Thanks anotherscott2022

Are you referring to PC4 or PC4-7?

PC4-7.

I did briefly have a PC4, before the 7 came out. I felt the action was roughly of Yamaha GHS quality. Not that it felt the same, but it was in that league. Not great, but not at all the worst, as hammer actions go.

Related to the scenes, I found a trick to do kinda: just turn off/on midi channels (example zone 1 assigned to midi ch1, zone 2 to midi ch2, and so on) https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/17 ... 4/page/12/

Yes, within a Multi (equivalent to a Roland Scene), although not the keypad, there are the buttons under the sliders, which can be turn on/off different sounds within that Multi, so maybe that does what you need.

[Rialas]

Tried the update, more even but still needs way too much pressure to trigger aftertouch. This can't be fixed with a software update.
Fantom needs updated keybeds.

[neomad]

Thanks anotherscott2022

Are you referring to PC4 or PC4-7?

PC4-7.

I did briefly have a PC4, before the 7 came out. I felt the action was roughly of Yamaha GHS quality. Not that it felt the same, but it was in that league. Not great, but not at all the worst, as hammer actions go.

Related to the scenes, I found a trick to do kinda: just turn off/on midi channels (example zone 1 assigned to midi ch1, zone 2 to midi ch2, and so on) https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/17 ... 4/page/12/

Yes, within a Multi (equivalent to a Roland Scene), although not the keypad, there are the buttons under the sliders, which can be turn on/off different sounds within that Multi, so maybe that does what you need.

Thanks. Kurz guys can easily implement the group switch function that the users of FA had since years. Easy really

[pianoman41]

This update certainly improves the aftertouch on my Fantom 7by setting the range to 10 in the system settings. However when I switch my machine back on, the value is saved in system settings but doesn't have any affect unless I reset the value again - really strange. Anyone else noticed this?

I set it to 8 on my Fantom 7, pressed 'Write' to save the system settings, then rebooted the machine. Mine came back up still at 8 and the effort seems about the same as 8 before so mine appears to retain the setting on power cycle.

[happyfantomuser]

Update drops in November!

The article does not sound as if there will be an update this November. Do you have other sources that make you think that there will be an update in November? And if so, are they different than the ones that made you say in August that an update would be coming in 1 or 2 weeks?

Same update. Seems there's some internal stuff delaying this sadly.

[xp30]

I updated from v3.01 to v3.02 today. Aftertouch is more usable after the update. If you experiment with it, then experiment with both parameters (Aftertouch Sens and Aftertouch Pressure Range), and avoid extreme values. I actually set both to the middle value (64 and 5), which seems to work well.

Note that the update also mentions "Improved the stability of pronunciation when layering multiple tones". It is mentioned first, and I think this is actually a more important improvement than the aftertouch improvement.

[anotherscott2022]

Note that the update also mentions "Improved the stability of pronunciation when layering multiple tones". It is mentioned first, and I think this is actually a more important improvement than the aftertouch improvement.

Nobody knows exactly what "pronunciation" means. I was thinking maybe it was an awkward translation of what would better be described as "articulation" which is a closely related English word that has more musical application, though it still left unclear exactly what it would be that they were talking about. But what if it was a mis-wording of a different kind... maybe the word they meant to use instead of "pronunciation" was "polyphony" and this new update actually addressed some of the polyphony issues people have been complaining about forever? That would be pretty huge. And in a way, it kind of makes sense that they might try to downplay this aspect of the fix, as it would be a kind of tacit admission that this was indeed a real problem all along.

I'm suggesting this based on the posts you just left in the "Tip: Fantom Polyphony and Voice Assign Mode" and "Polyphony and Acoustic Pianos (bug and workaround)" threads, and your related post at gearspace. I'll be curious to see if others start posting about fewer polyphony issues.

[xp30]

Nobody knows exactly what "pronunciation" means. I was thinking maybe it was an awkward translation of what would better be described as "articulation" which is a closely related English word that has more musical application, though it still left unclear exactly what it would be that they were talking about. But what if it was a mis-wording of a different kind... maybe the word they meant to use instead of "pronunciation" was "polyphony" and this new update actually addressed some of the polyphony issues people have been complaining about forever? That would be pretty huge. And in a way, it kind of makes sense that they might try to downplay this aspect of the fix, as it would be a kind of tacit admission that this was indeed a real problem all along.

A translation error was my first guess. I used Google translate to translate it back and forth between English and Japanese. However, it did not produce anything more meaningful.

Now I guess that "pronunciation" is actually a musical term, and that Roland uses this term internally. Some search results support that because they mention pronunciation and envelopes in the same context.

It might also be the more accurate description. The lack of polyphony was not the main issue. The main issue was that the available polyphony was poorly used. I think the example with the redamper setting demonstrates it well: Tones with redamper setting dropped out earlier than other tones, even if the redamper setting was effectively not used.

[FGM]

Nobody knows exactly what "pronunciation" means. I was thinking maybe it was an awkward translation of what would better be described as "articulation" which is a closely related English word that has more musical application, though it still left unclear exactly what it would be that they were talking about. But what if it was a mis-wording of a different kind... maybe the word they meant to use instead of "pronunciation" was "polyphony" and this new update actually addressed some of the polyphony issues people have been complaining about forever? That would be pretty huge. And in a way, it kind of makes sense that they might try to downplay this aspect of the fix, as it would be a kind of tacit admission that this was indeed a real problem all along.

A translation error was my first guess. I used Google translate to translate it back and forth between English and Japanese. However, it did not produce anything more meaningful.

Now I guess that "pronunciation" is actually a musical term, and that Roland uses this term internally. Some search results support that because they mention pronunciation and envelopes in the same context.

It might also be the more accurate description. The lack of polyphony was not the main issue. The main issue was that the available polyphony was poorly used. I think the example with the redamper setting demonstrates it well: Tones with redamper setting dropped out earlier than other tones, even if the redamper setting was effectively not used.

Basesd on Ver.3.02 ] OCT 2023
[ Functionality Improvements ]
Improved the stability of pronunciation when layering multiple tones.
Added adjustment parameters related to Aftertouch.
The settings are made in [MENU] -> <SYSTEM> -> KEYBOARD -> Aftertouch Pressure Range.
The larger the setting value, the better the Aftertouch control.
[ Bug Fixes ]
Minor bugs were fixed

I think perhaps the phrase "Improved the stability of pronunciation when layering multiple tones" likely refers to an enhancement in the way a musical instrument or software handles the production of sound when you play or trigger multiple musical notes or tones at the same time, particularly in a layered or simultaneous fashion. Here's a more detailed explanation:

When you play multiple notes or tones simultaneously, especially in complex musical arrangements, it's crucial that the instrument or software accurately produces the intended sound for each note. This involves ensuring that each note is clear, well-articulated, and doesn't interfere with the pronunciation or sound quality of other notes being played at the same time.

The improvement mentioned in the release notes indicates that the software or instrument has been enhanced to better manage the pronunciation or sound quality when multiple tones are layered. This might involve:

1. **Reducing Note Clashing:** When multiple notes overlap, the software may have been optimized to prevent clashes or unwanted artifacts in the sound that could occur when two or more notes are triggered at the same time.

2. **Enhancing Clarity:** The improved stability could result in clearer and more defined pronunciation for each note, ensuring that each note's characteristics are preserved even in complex musical arrangements.

3. **Minimizing Latency:** In some cases, stability improvements may also relate to reducing latency, ensuring that there is minimal delay between triggering a note and hearing its sound.

This enhancement is particularly valuable in situations where precise and high-quality sound reproduction is essential, such as in music production, live performances, or when using virtual instruments and synthesizers. It enhances the overall musical experience by ensuring that the instrument or software accurately and effectively handles the complexities of layered tones.

Yes, it is a Roland Fantom 8.

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

[muso7]

Just updated my Fantom 8

The A/T pressure sensitivity certainly makes the A/T more controllable but very sadly I still have to apply huge pressure to get it to work.
I think the 76 and 61 might be better - so my A/T is still close to unusable in a live situation......

☹️